Is Wrexham Glyndwr&#x27;s online MSc in Computer Science a scam?

Their programs seem to be the cheapest ones and because of this, I was also wondering how legit they would be. I have been reviewing a few online MSc Computer Science and AI-related programs and I've been between Glyndwr - Wolverhampton - York but please do let me know your general experience with your current program. I mean they can't pretend like they are all dead right? :smile:

Reply 2

OP

Original post by serdarilarslan

Their programs seem to be the cheapest ones and because of this, I was also wondering how legit they would be. I have been reviewing a few online MSc Computer Science and AI-related programs and I've been between Glyndwr - Wolverhampton - York but please do let me know your general experience with your current program. I mean they can't pretend like they are all dead right? :smile:

I also researched all of the various online programmes, but I came back to Wrexham Glyndwr because their overall programme seemed to cover everything I was interested in (Cloud, AI, Databases, Big Data). Their list of courses matches what employers are really looking for right now. Wrexham is only a bit cheaper than York, but I just liked Wrexham's list of classes better.

The first class that we did (the mandatory research class) was quite promising and I made some great online friends with other people who also already work in the tech industry and were looking to impress their boss with a master's qualification. But by the second class, we found the teacher never showed up (not even once) and neither did the tutors. Unsurprisingly, the whole class was just given identical grades for everything and they didn't even mark our assignments. It looks like they give everyone the same pass mark, even if they never returned assignments.

On the internal forum, there were dozens of people complaining and saying the Data Structures class was terrible and that they were teaching an outdated version of Python instead of the version tech people are used to at work. I emailed the university to express my concern about all the complaints on the internal forum, but I've heard nothing back. I've emailed several times now over the last few months.

Also, most of the online friends I made in the first class at WGU seem to have dropped out of the programme. All of the good students (the ones with years of tech experience) seem to have abandoned it. I emailed my friends on their student email address to ask if they're still enrolled, but their accounts are inactive.

Reply 3

Blue_Cow

22

University is not the best place to learn new technologies, especially not an MSc conversion course which every university seems to be putting out these days to capture those who think CS is a get-rich-quick field.

If you want to learn data structures to pass coding interviews, there are online resources out there + Leetcode/Hackerrank.

Reply 4

OP

Original post by Blue_Cow

University is not the best place to learn new technologies, especially not an MSc conversion course which every university seems to be putting out these days to capture those who think CS is a get-rich-quick field.

If you want to learn data structures to pass coding interviews, there are online resources out there + Leetcode/Hackerrank.

I disagree with you on this. The clients were look after at my tech company expect to see tech degrees and master's degrees on our profiles. We all have 10+ years' experience and they know that already, but our managers want all employees to have fancy master's degrees to impress our clients. Experienced people enrol into these programmes to tick the boxes. Leetcode/Hackerrank are not the best places to learn - the best place is through professional courses and certifications like Cisco's that are globally recognised.

Reply 5

Original post by Earl of Sandwich

I disagree with you on this. The clients were look after at my tech company expect to see tech degrees and master's degrees on our profiles. We all have 10+ years' experience and they know that already, but our managers want all employees to have fancy master's degrees to impress our clients. Experienced people enrol into these programmes to tick the boxes. Leetcode/Hackerrank are not the best places to learn - the best place is through professional courses and certifications like Cisco's that are globally recognised.

Master's degrees are actually designed to teach the fundamentals which are nowadays overlooked and seen as unnecessary things by many in the industry however those academic research and learning experience drive the technology and the world. Today, even a 5-6 years old kid can do coding and even make money out of it (there are many examples of the kids developing mobile apps/games which helped them to make quick money and showed up by the media as a tech genius haha). However, If one wants to take the next step either with the career or the tech disruptions then it is much easier to do with having a solid background in such fundamentals and research abilities. Yes, you can apply already developed algorithms or even just use a framework and you get the job done that's what most employers will care however what if you faced a huge problem that no code examples nor framework that you use are the solutions?

Anyway, back to our topic :smile:

Earl of Sandwich, thanks for your feedback, and that's what I am afraid of actually. As I described above, I am not up to something that gives me only a degree but rather teaches me something so I can feel I accomplished something and that diploma will be the proof of that :smile:

I am currently reviewing https://london.ac.uk/courses/msc-computer-science

I really liked their curriculum and teaching methods. I believe Birkbeck together with the University of London's degree would mean more to employers and other universities than Glyndwr's.

It comes with an extra cost of course but after all, I am going to do this once and I want it to be done in good terms/quality

Reply 6

OP

Original post by serdarilarslan

Earl of Sandwich, thanks for your feedback, and that's what I am afraid of actually. As I described above, I am not up to something that gives me only a degree but rather teaches me something so I can feel I accomplished something and that diploma will be the proof of that :smile:

You definitely won't find quality teaching at WGU. It's basically a degree mill where anyone can enrol and they issue the same passing mark to everyone. It suits people who just want to get the master's degree initials next to their email signature. In my case, if I get a master's degree, I can write "Joe Bloggs, Senior Developer, MSc" in my signature block and the clients will be happier.

But quality teaching, no you definitely won't find that at WGU. The teachers rarely ever did make an appearance, but I read their profile pages at the start of class and most of them only have a bachelor's degree and even then, it is often not even in tech. From what I can tell, the pay rate for that job is very low, so they don't attract many applicants.

I haven't learnt much at WGU, but that is also partly because it only covers what my certifications already covered anyway, so WGU's classes are just a poorly written version of Cisco's courses that are more comprehensive. Cisco's cyber security classes let students practice on virtual tools, but WGU doesn't have anything like that, so you walk away with a master's without learning any actual practical skills.

University of London is definitely worth the extra money, without a doubt. If it's education and learning that you want, you definitely want to choose a decent university over a degree mill. Degrees don't expire, so you may as well pay for a decent one. If I could go back in time, I'd study harder at school and try to get into a good university like Oxbridge. The Raspberry Pi creator (Upton) went to Cambridge and look what he's achieved.

Reply 7

Original post by Earl of Sandwich

University of London is definitely worth the extra money, without a doubt. If it's education and learning that you want, you definitely want to choose a decent university over a degree mill. Degrees don't expire, so you may as well pay for a decent one. If I could go back in time, I'd study harder at school and try to get into a good university like Oxbridge. The Raspberry Pi creator (Upton) went to Cambridge and look what he's achieved.

Absolutely, I am of course after that degree but if I am paying and dedicating my time, which I believe is even far more precious than money, then I expect that the degree pays off all that cost, and also I can feel this with the quality of education and acquired/achieved all those learning objectives of each study modules.

I don't know if you checked but MSc Computer Science Online at UoL looks really promising. The modules cover all practice and theory together and I am just hoping they all are bundled up with a good quality of teaching and assessment process in their Virtual Learning Environment.

Reply 8

OP

Original post by serdarilarslan

I don't know if you checked but MSc Computer Science Online at UoL looks really promising. The modules cover all practice and theory together and I am just hoping they all are bundled up with a good quality of teaching and assessment process in their Virtual Learning Environment.

Honestly, I'm still licking my wounds after wasting money on Wrexham Glyndwr. Once bitten, twice shy. Maybe I'll enrol into a master's again in the future, but that would be a few years away. I still haven't given up home that the union or group complaints process might actually get some of our money back from WGU.

But UoL is considered good. I've always thought Cambridge was so reasonably priced for such a great university. The US ones in that top tier are so expensive in comparison.

Reply 9

Original post by Earl of Sandwich

Honestly, I'm still licking my wounds after wasting money on Wrexham Glyndwr. Once bitten, twice shy. Maybe I'll enrol into a master's again in the future, but that would be a few years away. I still haven't given up home that the union or group complaints process might actually get some of our money back from WGU.

But UoL is considered good. I've always thought Cambridge was so reasonably priced for such a great university. The US ones in that top tier are so expensive in comparison.

Fingers crossed for you!

But one thing is clear in my mind none of the online master's programs will provide the same quality as on-campus so I believe the only relevant and shared thing between on-campus and online is the title of the diploma awarded at the end of the program. I don't mind paying some extra money just because it will bring on some more reputation on my diploma.

As you said. UoL is considered good and most employers will only look at the name of the university and the ranking roll-out each year. University of York and UoL are pretty good in those rankings.

Though, I have a cheaper program option. The University of Wolverhampton. Their website and the way they are using CANVAS looks pretty promising and they charge only 6600 for the full program. They also have a Ph.D. in Computer Science so even none of the universities will accept their degree Wolverhampton will likely accept their own master's degree for Ph.D. programs haha

Reply 10

Throwaway1222

2

I am enrolled on the Msc Computer Science at Glyndwr currently, I don't agree that it's automated or that people are given the same marks regardless but I do agree that the course itself is terrible.

The tutors are rarely around and don't engage with students, the feedback on an assignment you spent hours writing is around one usually unclear sentence, two if you're lucky and the ambiguous assessment briefs don't help either. I have had work where I recieved a low mark in one section with no feedback as to why to help me improve. It does feel overall that the tutors don't really care about the students and we are just there to get them their £500 per module. The first module was really good and the tutor was very engaging, great feedback and replied to questions that I had, but the quality has been far below that ever since.

I was torn between York and Glyndwyr and went for Glyndwr based on the thread bashing York on here, but I wish I had gone for it just for the name as the course would have been crap either way. I'll finish the course as I just need the Masters as a tick box but I would not recommend anyone enroll with them.

Reply 11

OP

Original post by Throwaway1222

The first module was really good and the tutor was very engaging, great feedback and replied to questions that I had, but the quality has been far below that ever since.

That's what my group found also; that the first class was good and then everything afterwards was dismal. The initial Research class that we started with was on par with an average quality course at other universities. In other words, it was good/satisfactory, so I gave it good review when I completed my course feedback. Those of us who worked really hard in that class got top grades, and those who messed around and hardly put time into it later complained loudly on the internal forums that they'd been given bad grades. So the grades were very fair, and were based on skill and hard work.

But subsequent classes were appalling and were far beneath the quality of private IT courses my workplace has sent my team on. Even free online courses are better quality than most classes at Wrexham. Those of us who already work in the tech industry could see how bad Wrexham was and how outdated the material is. The Security class was so bad that the teacher didn't even bother to introduce themselves, so we began to suspect there was no teacher at all. And that's when we started to notice that everyone was issued the same grade and feedback comments, so the lazy students started getting the same grades as those of us who got top grades in the initial Research class.

We (the friends I made in my classes) suspect the university uses the Research class as a 'hook' to lure people into thinking the university offers classes that are standard university quality. By the time students realise how bad subsequent courses are, they've already spent hundreds of £, but feel compelled to continue or it is just money down the drain with no certificate or box to tick.

Reply 12

reyjusuf

15

I just finished the MSc. The first course, research proposal and dissertation were pretty good. The tutors in those 3 courses were active and answered questions quickly. The others were not good and you could learn more from free online courses / tutorials. I don't care much though because I just want to have an MSc. on my record.

Reply 13

OP

Original post by reyjusuf

I just finished the MSc. The first course, research proposal and dissertation were pretty good. The tutors in those 3 courses were active and answered questions quickly. The others were not good and you could learn more from free online courses / tutorials. I don't care much though because I just want to have an MSc. on my record.

Congrats on getting the master's, and the great thing is that employers in Europe, the US and Australia won't even know how bad Wrexham is, so it will look good on your CV if you want to work in those countries.

I'd originally been looking forward to the dissertation. Even though the taught classes were mostly awful, the dissertation would give me a chance to research an area that interested me and get a university credit for researching something I enjoyed reading about.

I think the quality of the taught classes has fallen since you first enrolled though. You must have started at least 2 years ago, back when the programme was new and they were still trying to make it appealing. By the time I enrolled, the quality had already gone downhill and teachers had stopped trying and stopped showing up to work. When they did reply, the replies were rushed with poor grammar and spelling. I think the low pay the teachers were getting had resulted in them sort of giving up.

Reply 14

DimT

Original post by serdarilarslan

But one thing is clear in my mind none of the online master's programs will provide the same quality as on-campus so I believe the only relevant and shared thing between on-campus and online is the title of the diploma awarded at the end of the program. I don't mind paying some extra money just because it will bring on some more reputation on my diploma.

This is wrong. Especially programs from good universities or programs that are accredited by professional bodies like BPS. I mean, it is a basis to be a chartered pro by completing one. They are not that idiots to give accreditations for fun.

Reply 15

OP

Original post by DimT

This is wrong. Especially programs from good universities or programs that are accredited by professional bodies like BPS. I mean, it is a basis to be a chartered pro by completing one. They are not that idiots to give accreditations for fun.

In most cases, serdarilarslan is not wrong. There are far too many universities around the world handing out online degrees where the students barely even get an emailed response from the tutor. Wrexham just issues the same grade to the whole class in many cases, so long as they hand in something on the assignment due date.
But there are some good universities that ensure students get the same 'face time' via online classrooms and tutorials that physical students get, so as long as everything is done properly via video-conferencing to keep it consistent with a real classroom, then there is no reason the programme would be low-quality. I've seen online classes that were set up well at good universities, and I found them to be better than physically taught classes (the teacher isn't distracted by that late guy who always walks in 30 minutes late and then answers his phone at least twice).

Reply 16

DimT

Original post by Earl of Sandwich

In most cases, serdarilarslan is not wrong. There are far too many universities around the world handing out online degrees where the students barely even get an emailed response from the tutor. Wrexham just issues the same grade to the whole class in many cases, so long as they hand in something on the assignment due date.
But there are some good universities that ensure students get the same 'face time' via online classrooms and tutorials that physical students get, so as long as everything is done properly via video-conferencing to keep it consistent with a real classroom, then there is no reason the programme would be low-quality. I've seen online classes that were set up well at good universities, and I found them to be better than physically taught classes (the teacher isn't distracted by that late guy who always walks in 30 minutes late and then answers his phone at least twice).

I am happy to report that the online degree I did was great. I actually felt part of the university, used some student support services that I needed, and I even voted for the union elections! Even though most of the lecture material were pre-recorded the tutorials kept us involved and the tutors were very responsive (I even got e-mail replies on Saturdays!). Also the assessments were no joke!

However, I know what you mean. Many universities put minimum effort on online courses while other (including Liverpool and Essex) even outsource them to US-for-profit companies like Kaplan and Laureate which is really sad! Therefore, one must be VERY careful. A very good university and professional bodies accreditation (where applicable) bring some reassurance. Also RUN AWAY if you see someone like Kaplan involved.

Reply 17

SelectUsername

2

I'm very grateful for this forum, I was going to accept and pay tomorrow, but I'll be declining that offer now. Have you looked into going to another Uni? From my understanding, you can use credits for incomplete masters degrees so you won't be starting from scratch?I've been accepted into the University of Wolverhampton, so I would be keen to hear if anyone knows if that's good. Unfortunately, I'm self-funding, so quite limited budget-wise.

Reply 18

OP