Why hate feminine acting men?
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Original post by BooHooRah
We were never discussing what most people liked.
I was specific acting gay means acting feminine.
No I made this thread a specific sect of those people of which it is true and asked the others to question why they dislike effeminate men.
I was specific acting gay means acting feminine.
No I made this thread a specific sect of those people of which it is true and asked the others to question why they dislike effeminate men.
Well ok then but that wasn't very clear to me which is why I was pressing you on the "overly camp" vs "a bit camp" point
i.e they hide hide their sexuality
i.e keep your sexuality to yourself
Why can't all gay people be like them?
How is asking why can't all gay people not express their sexuality to the point where they are assumed straight not bigoted?
i.e keep your sexuality to yourself
Why can't all gay people be like them?
How is asking why can't all gay people not express their sexuality to the point where they are assumed straight not bigoted?
I don't think that was what he meant. As I said earlier there are no implicit personality traits involved with being heterosexual or homosexual, most people just act pretty "neutral" and I believe that was what he meant about his friends
And? When was quantity ever an issue? You also ignored my question AGAIN, show me an effeminate man who would not be considered camp.
My point is I would not consider men with a few feminine qualities outright effeminate. I don't know any outright effeminate men who are not a bit camp
Original post by Kiss
I wouldn't bother arguing with her. I'm starting to think she's either a very poor troll or just a moron. In any case she's not going to stop until she can convince everyone that her flawed logic is correct, and that it is somehow offensive to dislike someone for their personality; don't think she realises that disliking camp people is not homophobic since camp is not a sexuality.
I believe she is probably the latter of those two. Yeah, I'm not going to bother argue with her any more. I've wasted enough time already.
Original post by Ice Constricter
Isn't it obvious that the OP is that same girl that was obsessed with making rape threads, Rasberrie or something?
Yeah that's the one, I'm sure of it. I tried to get her to not argue so accusatively last time but it didn't work
Original post by jarasta
Ha nice one, just throw insults instead of actual retorts to my arguments.
It is not my fault the truth is insulting and you infer things that aren't there. That's on you. Retort to what argument? You made none.
Throw more words in my mouth. I never denied the fact that black people were oppressed by white people. Show me where I said that.
You implied it here:
the type of black folk that always say, 'the white-man is putting the down', whilst in fact, they are putting themselves down.
What I'm saying is, its helps no one to live in the past, by blaming everything one the white man. I know plenty of black people who think that the 'white man' is out to get them. In the 21st century in England, black people do not suffer from oppression from the majority of white people.
That doesn't mean racism doesn't exist and should be ignored, it isn't in the past.
But if people keep differentiating themselves by things like race and sexuality. How is society as a whole meant to move on as one where people tolerate and respect each other.
Yes because they chose to be different, it not like they were made the OTHER by the oppressor throughout history.
To act as if gays and black people segregated themselves is disgusting and on par with holocaust denial.
Society will never be truly hate free and where people respect each other despite their private lives and beliefs.
Yet you want to focus on gay people and ways they can stop homophobia by being more quiet right?
Not saying that people shouldn't be proud about being gay, black etc. Its one thing to be pride and another to bat s**t crazy. Its like patriotism. Its fine to be proud of your country, and its another to be so proud of your country that you go out of your way to disrespect other countries etc.
Yes because gay pride is really extreme and dangerous.
Are you retarded? You don't need to be rigorously specific to imply something. If I said that the white man is trying to get me. That statement clearly implies that im talking about most if not all white people. I dont need to say, 'All the white men are trying to get me'. Ha, I don't even think anyone speaks in such a specific way.
I never said all therefore I didn't imply it, try again.
Original post by Redolent
Well ok then but that wasn't very clear to me which is why I was pressing you on the "overly camp" vs "a bit camp" point
When was the words overtly or a bit used? I even make the nuance point in the op.
I don't think that was what he meant.
I don't care what you think if you don't have a valid reason for thinking it. Any one with a working brain can see what he was saying, it was basically saying "why can't all gay people act "normal" and keep their sexuality to themselves?".
As I said earlier there are no implicit personality traits involved with being heterosexual or homosexual, most people just act pretty "neutral" and I believe that was what he meant about his friends
That's not what operates on though. Go wear a pink headband to high school, any idea of the names you would be called?
My point is I would not consider men with a few feminine qualities outright effeminate.
But that's irrelevant as we are talking about an assumed effeminate man, what does a few qualities have to do with any thing? It is completely relative you can be wayne rooney but you still be called a gay for sitting with your legs crossed.
I don't know any outright effeminate men who are not a bit camp
Exactly. You lose.
Original post by BooHooRah
Yawn ANOTHER lie, I acknowledged camp is often used to refer to feminine men. I issue you a challenged find a feminine gay man who could not be described as camp.
Yawn ANOTHER lie, I acknowledged camp is often used to refer to feminine men. I issue you a challenged find a feminine gay man who could not be described as camp.
I have no idea why I'm still replying because it's becoming more clear you're a troll, since you ignore any logical posts you can't ridicule and target the ones that will provoke a reaction from someone instead but I'll address this point anyway.
You know those quiet kids who aren't really into sports and would prefer to read? People would say that is a feminine trait, I doubt anyone is going to call that camp.
There was a gay kid in my A level maths, at no point did I hear anyone call him camp but he did not act masculine. He died his hair blonde with purplish highlights at one point (although that didn't last long so I think he, like everyone else, thought it looked rubbish.) He spoke with a slight lisp and definitely didn't look like he worked out. He is what you'd define as feminine, but he wasn't loud, and he wasn't camp. He spoke normally, was able to laugh about himself and was pretty funny sometimes and everyone got on with him, including someone who at the start of the year said he hated people who acted camp. Camp is not the same as gay, and it's not the same as feminine.
EDIT: I noticed you said Gay Pride isn't dangerous. Personally I think it promotes the exact things you are complaining about: that acting camp is gay, and it suggests to people who don't know many gay people that all homosexuals act camp, which isn't true at all. Quite a few gay people on tsr have voiced their opinion against Gay Pride before saying that is wrong, unfortunately one of the traits of camp people is that they care little what other people think so I doubt it'll stop any time soon.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by justanotherposter
I have no idea why I'm still replying because it's becoming more clear you're a troll, since you ignore any logical posts you can't ridicule and target the ones that will provoke a reaction from someone instead but I'll address this point anyway.
You know those quiet kids who aren't really into sports and would prefer to read? People would say that is a feminine trait, I doubt anyone is going to call that camp.
There was a gay kid in my A level maths, at no point did I hear anyone call him camp but he did not act masculine. He died his hair blonde with purplish highlights at one point (although that didn't last long so I think he, like everyone else, thought it looked rubbish.) He spoke with a slight lisp and definitely didn't look like he worked out. He is what you'd define as feminine, but he wasn't loud, and he wasn't camp. He spoke normally, was able to laugh about himself and was pretty funny sometimes and everyone got on with him, including someone who at the start of the year said he hated people who acted camp. Camp is not the same as gay, and it's not the same as feminine.
You know those quiet kids who aren't really into sports and would prefer to read? People would say that is a feminine trait, I doubt anyone is going to call that camp.
There was a gay kid in my A level maths, at no point did I hear anyone call him camp but he did not act masculine. He died his hair blonde with purplish highlights at one point (although that didn't last long so I think he, like everyone else, thought it looked rubbish.) He spoke with a slight lisp and definitely didn't look like he worked out. He is what you'd define as feminine, but he wasn't loud, and he wasn't camp. He spoke normally, was able to laugh about himself and was pretty funny sometimes and everyone got on with him, including someone who at the start of the year said he hated people who acted camp. Camp is not the same as gay, and it's not the same as feminine.
Wow that imaginary kid in your class proves everything.
I meant someone in the public eye who I could actually witness.The guy you described doesn't sound very feminine and most guys who act feminine in high school are called gay etc, this is just a fact.
[h="2"]Masculinity and high school[/h]Through ethnographic research in a high school setting, CJ Pascoe examines how high school boys use the term 'fag.' Pascoe's work shows that boys in high school use the fag epithet as a way to assert their own masculinity by claiming that another boy is less masculine, making him a fag. The way the word fag is used in this context shows that it is less about sexual orientation and more about gender. In fact, one-third of the boys in Pascoe's study claimed that they would not call a homosexual peer a fag. Fag is used in this setting as a form of gender policing, in which boys point out and ridicule others who fail at masculinity, heterosexual prowess, or strength. Because boys do not want to be labeled a fag, they hurl the insult at another person. The fag identity does not constitute a static identity attached to the boy receiving the insult. Rather, fag is a fluid identity that boys strive to avoid, often by naming another as the fag. As Pascoe asserts, "[the fag identity] is fluid enough that boys police their behaviors out of fear of having the fag identity permanently adhere and definitive enough so that boys recognize a fag behavior and strive to avoid it." Gender policing is most common among white boys, while black boys are more concerned with "acting" appropriately black. The black youth in Pascoe's study often ridiculed one another for "acting white," and did not express gender policing to the same degree as white boys. [13]
Original post by BooHooRah
When was the words overtly or a bit used? I even make the nuance point in the op.
I'm the one who drew attention to the distinction. I did it because I wanted to make it clear I have no problem with people being camp as long as it is not overblown in an attention-seeking way (although there are a couple of entertainers who can do this in a funny way)
I don't care what you think if you don't have a valid reason for thinking it. Any one with a working brain can see what he was saying, it was basically saying "why can't all gay people act "normal" and keep their sexuality to themselves?".
This is just conjecture. His friends obviously haven't kept it to themselves or he wouldn't know they are gay, I think his point was just he is glad they don't act overly camp. I could be wrong, so could you, you can't read between the lines that much over just one short post
That's not what operates on though. Go wear a pink headband to high school, any idea of the names you would be called?
But that's irrelevant as we are talking about an assumed effeminate man, what does a few qualities have to do with any thing? It is completely relative you can be wayne rooney but you still be called a gay for sitting with your legs crossed.
Yes I get your point on this and I'm not disagreeing
Exactly. You lose.
This little challenge you came up with wasn't really relevant to anything in the first place, and it's not a game
[QUOTE=justanotherposter;41795968 I noticed you said Gay Pride isn't dangerous. Personally I think it promotes the exact things you are complaining about: that acting camp is gay,
The same way hip hop promotes black people love money, pimps and hoes? Maybe, just MAYBE it is the responsibility of the individual to understand not all people act a certain way.
Why the hell should they change themselves just to make sure no bigots can use camp gays as an excuse to hate? They would just find another excuse.
It doesn't suggest that, that is what bigots chose to infer.
And they are wrong themselves. Why the hell should it stop just because you don't like it? Who are they hurting? No one. If people want to use it against them (not that there is anything legitimate there to use against them) that is in no way there fault nor should they indulge it. Should I not eat watermelon because some racist might get the wrong ideas? Or should I maybe, just MAYBE be able to do what they hell I want if it isn't hurting one god damn person!
The same way hip hop promotes black people love money, pimps and hoes? Maybe, just MAYBE it is the responsibility of the individual to understand not all people act a certain way.
Why the hell should they change themselves just to make sure no bigots can use camp gays as an excuse to hate? They would just find another excuse.
and it suggests to people who don't know many gay people that all homosexuals act camp, which isn't true at all.
It doesn't suggest that, that is what bigots chose to infer.
Quite a few gay people on tsr have voiced their opinion against Gay Pride before saying that is wrong, unfortunately one of the traits of camp people is that they care little what other people think so I doubt it'll stop any time soon.
And they are wrong themselves. Why the hell should it stop just because you don't like it? Who are they hurting? No one. If people want to use it against them (not that there is anything legitimate there to use against them) that is in no way there fault nor should they indulge it. Should I not eat watermelon because some racist might get the wrong ideas? Or should I maybe, just MAYBE be able to do what they hell I want if it isn't hurting one god damn person!
Original post by BooHooRah
Wow that imaginary kid in your class proves everything. I meant someone in the public eye who I could actually witness.
The guy you described doesn't sound very feminine and most guys who act feminine in high school are called gay etc, this is just a fact.
[h="2"]Masculinity and high school[/h]Through ethnographic research in a high school setting, CJ Pascoe examines how high school boys use the term 'fag.' Pascoe's work shows that boys in high school use the fag epithet as a way to assert their own masculinity by claiming that another boy is less masculine, making him a fag. The way the word fag is used in this context shows that it is less about sexual orientation and more about gender. In fact, one-third of the boys in Pascoe's study claimed that they would not call a homosexual peer a fag. Fag is used in this setting as a form of gender policing, in which boys point out and ridicule others who fail at masculinity, heterosexual prowess, or strength. Because boys do not want to be labeled a fag, they hurl the insult at another person. The fag identity does not constitute a static identity attached to the boy receiving the insult. Rather, fag is a fluid identity that boys strive to avoid, often by naming another as the fag. As Pascoe asserts, "[the fag identity] is fluid enough that boys police their behaviors out of fear of having the fag identity permanently adhere and definitive enough so that boys recognize a fag behavior and strive to avoid it." Gender policing is most common among white boys, while black boys are more concerned with "acting" appropriately black. The black youth in Pascoe's study often ridiculed one another for "acting white," and did not express gender policing to the same degree as white boys. [13]
I meant someone in the public eye who I could actually witness.The guy you described doesn't sound very feminine and most guys who act feminine in high school are called gay etc, this is just a fact.
[h="2"]Masculinity and high school[/h]Through ethnographic research in a high school setting, CJ Pascoe examines how high school boys use the term 'fag.' Pascoe's work shows that boys in high school use the fag epithet as a way to assert their own masculinity by claiming that another boy is less masculine, making him a fag. The way the word fag is used in this context shows that it is less about sexual orientation and more about gender. In fact, one-third of the boys in Pascoe's study claimed that they would not call a homosexual peer a fag. Fag is used in this setting as a form of gender policing, in which boys point out and ridicule others who fail at masculinity, heterosexual prowess, or strength. Because boys do not want to be labeled a fag, they hurl the insult at another person. The fag identity does not constitute a static identity attached to the boy receiving the insult. Rather, fag is a fluid identity that boys strive to avoid, often by naming another as the fag. As Pascoe asserts, "[the fag identity] is fluid enough that boys police their behaviors out of fear of having the fag identity permanently adhere and definitive enough so that boys recognize a fag behavior and strive to avoid it." Gender policing is most common among white boys, while black boys are more concerned with "acting" appropriately black. The black youth in Pascoe's study often ridiculed one another for "acting white," and did not express gender policing to the same degree as white boys. [13]
Michael McIntyre then, I doubt you can say he is masculine. Wait this is about kids? Kids bully anyone that isn't the same as them, if we're going on kids I may as well make a thread asking why people hate people without the latest iPhone, or why people hate poor kids, or why people hate smart people, or why people hate stupid people, the list is endless.
Original post by BooHooRah
Wow that imaginary kid in your class proves everything. I meant someone in the public eye who I could actually witness.
The guy you described doesn't sound very feminine and most guys who act feminine in high school are called gay etc, this is just a fact.
[h="2"]Masculinity and high school[/h]Through ethnographic research in a high school setting, CJ Pascoe examines how high school boys use the term 'fag.' Pascoe's work shows that boys in high school use the fag epithet as a way to assert their own masculinity by claiming that another boy is less masculine, making him a fag. The way the word fag is used in this context shows that it is less about sexual orientation and more about gender. In fact, one-third of the boys in Pascoe's study claimed that they would not call a homosexual peer a fag. Fag is used in this setting as a form of gender policing, in which boys point out and ridicule others who fail at masculinity, heterosexual prowess, or strength. Because boys do not want to be labeled a fag, they hurl the insult at another person. The fag identity does not constitute a static identity attached to the boy receiving the insult. Rather, fag is a fluid identity that boys strive to avoid, often by naming another as the fag. As Pascoe asserts, "[the fag identity] is fluid enough that boys police their behaviors out of fear of having the fag identity permanently adhere and definitive enough so that boys recognize a fag behavior and strive to avoid it." Gender policing is most common among white boys, while black boys are more concerned with "acting" appropriately black. The black youth in Pascoe's study often ridiculed one another for "acting white," and did not express gender policing to the same degree as white boys. [13]
I meant someone in the public eye who I could actually witness.The guy you described doesn't sound very feminine and most guys who act feminine in high school are called gay etc, this is just a fact.
[h="2"]Masculinity and high school[/h]Through ethnographic research in a high school setting, CJ Pascoe examines how high school boys use the term 'fag.' Pascoe's work shows that boys in high school use the fag epithet as a way to assert their own masculinity by claiming that another boy is less masculine, making him a fag. The way the word fag is used in this context shows that it is less about sexual orientation and more about gender. In fact, one-third of the boys in Pascoe's study claimed that they would not call a homosexual peer a fag. Fag is used in this setting as a form of gender policing, in which boys point out and ridicule others who fail at masculinity, heterosexual prowess, or strength. Because boys do not want to be labeled a fag, they hurl the insult at another person. The fag identity does not constitute a static identity attached to the boy receiving the insult. Rather, fag is a fluid identity that boys strive to avoid, often by naming another as the fag. As Pascoe asserts, "[the fag identity] is fluid enough that boys police their behaviors out of fear of having the fag identity permanently adhere and definitive enough so that boys recognize a fag behavior and strive to avoid it." Gender policing is most common among white boys, while black boys are more concerned with "acting" appropriately black. The black youth in Pascoe's study often ridiculed one another for "acting white," and did not express gender policing to the same degree as white boys. [13]
I've once wrote a review on that article for a masculinity module at university! It is very interesting and it definitely mirrors some of the things I saw at school.
Original post by Redolent
I'm the one who drew attention to the distinction. I did it because I wanted to make it clear I have no problem with people being camp as long as it is not overblown in an attention-seeking way (although there are a couple of entertainers who can do this in a funny way)
And?
This is just conjecture. His friends obviously haven't kept it to themselves or he wouldn't know they are gay,
No it is something anyone with a functioning brain and a clue would seen as implied. He said:
I got a couple of gay mates who you'd never know (I didn't) unless they mention it
, why can't they just do that?
It is a clear as daylight he doesn't like people who you can tell are gay. End of discussion.
I think his point was just he is glad they don't act overly camp.
Again, what you think has no worth to me, why are you under the impression it does? I don't want to converse with you, that has been perfectly clear but yet you continue to harass me like a fool who can't take a hint.
I could be wrong, so could you, you can't read between the lines that much over just one short post
I got a couple of gay mates who you'd never know (I didn't) unless
they mention it, why can't they just do that?
How is asking why can't they (gay people) just make sure you don't know their gay unless they mentioned it not against people "acting" gay?
It is LITERALLY saying why can't you just all act straight? And that isn't reading inbetween the lines.
This little challenge you came up with wasn't really relevant to anything in the first place, and it's not a game
Well it did as you were obsessed over the semantics of the word and refused to acknowledge any other usage. Are you happy I've wasted my time having this pointless discussion with your weak self? God know why you were so desperate to argue you don't even have a good point, pathetic waste of time. Any further harassment will be reported.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by justanotherposter
Michael McIntyre then, I doubt you can say he is masculine. Wait this is about kids? Kids bully anyone that isn't the same as them, if we're going on kids I may as well make a thread asking why people hate people without the latest iPhone, or why people hate poor kids, or why people hate smart people, or why people hate stupid people, the list is endless.
He's not gay nor what I would call effeminate.
Original post by BooHooRah
He's not gay nor what I would call effeminate.
Then why do you want an example? I can name men like McIntyre who have camp traits but aren't annoying about it who aren't hated, and I can name gay men that aren't hated (Neil Patrick Harris for example,) why do I need to pick one that fits perfectly?
Original post by Mathaddict
I'm finding this conversation a lot more entertaining than the on-topic one!
I never received cake, or an invite to this big party though
I never received cake, or an invite to this big party though
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Did you send it round by Very Loud Shouting or just using telepathy? I don't think I got it either...
Now CLEARLY some of you are upset that you didn't appear to receive an invitation to the event
I've clarified with my EX-admin, apparently there was limited seating so some of you didn't quite make the cut and for this I apologise
HOWEVER
There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the supreme ruler election results have been on display at your local interstellar politics department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now....
Original post by BooHooRah
Again, what you think has no worth to me, why are you under the impression it does? I don't want to converse with you, that has been perfectly clear but yet you continue to harass me like a fool who can't take a hint.
Well it did as you were obsessed over the semantics of the word and refused to acknowledge any other usage. Are you happy I've wasted my time having this pointless discussion with your weak self? God know why you were so desperate to argue you don't even have a good point, pathetic waste of time. Any further harassment will be reported.
Again, what you think has no worth to me, why are you under the impression it does? I don't want to converse with you, that has been perfectly clear but yet you continue to harass me like a fool who can't take a hint.
Well it did as you were obsessed over the semantics of the word and refused to acknowledge any other usage. Are you happy I've wasted my time having this pointless discussion with your weak self? God know why you were so desperate to argue you don't even have a good point, pathetic waste of time. Any further harassment will be reported.
Demonstrably, you are the one being pathetic
"Oh mods, ban this user right away! He had the sheer nerve to disagree with me on a designated debating forum! Oh, the humanity! It's harrassment I tell you!"
Sort your life out
Original post by RadioHawk
HOWEVER
There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the supreme ruler election results have been on display at your local interstellar politics department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now....
HOWEVER
There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the supreme ruler election results have been on display at your local interstellar politics department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now....
I couldn't make it, the Vogons were reading all this poetry and I got held up by some demolition work.
Original post by karl177
so...it was supposed to be offensive.
Does that mean I'm supposed to break your face? Gratuitous use of the word "faggot" gives me that urge...
Tell you what, you find a less offensive means of expressing yourself and I'll not get pissed off about it.
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Original post by Fullofsurprises
I couldn't make it, the Vogons were reading all this poetry and I got held up by some demolition work.
Hell yeah you did!
Wasn't sure if anyone would've got it
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