Are ethnic minorities insecure about their British identity
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Original post by theoferdinand
To be fair i was talking about brown people like indians,bengalis ,west africans etc . I should have been clear about that . I get what you are saying about generation thing though , And the reason why i said i dont see ethnics as british is because i dont see them as british ,and gods honest truth a lot of indeginous people dont see ethnics as british . You know how many times ive been having a conversation with someone ,speaking the queens english and they still ask the question "what country are you from"
yeah yeah but people born and raised here are at least in part british because it is impossible to get that rid of that part of you. i think it will be more and more difficult for like 10th generation indians to still be seriously considered indian - it's kinda like irish or italian americans - people just laugh at them because they are about as irish as me. most indians are at most 4th/5th gen now and there grandparents are rarely born in the Uk but imagine when their great-grandparents etc are all uk born - its gonna be impossible to keep that link with india going strong. I guess it is still early days, but non whites are accepted as british by enough of the young people for them to just become british over time imo. even now I know like 2nd 3rd gen immigrants from India/Iran etc who have lost all understanding of their ancestral home - to them going to India or whatever is like a white dude going to India etc almost so it's just gonna get silly for those guys to claim they aren't british because they are just left with nothing (especially when they only speak english lol). I agree that a lot of people don't see brown/blacks as british but that'll change over time - they are more often than not old and middle aged so it'll just die out.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by darius12345
yeah yeah but people born and raised here are at least in part british because it is impossible to get that rid of that part of you. i think it will be more and more difficult for like 10th generation indians to still be seriously considered indian - it's kinda like irish or italian americans - people just laugh at them because they are about as irish as me. most indians are at most 4th/5th gen now and there grandparents are rarely born in the Uk but imagine when their great-grandparents etc are all uk born - its gonna be impossible to keep that link with india going strong. I guess it is still early days, but non whites are accepted as british by enough of the young people for them to just become british over time imo. even now I know like 2nd 3rd gen immigrants from India/Iran etc who have lost all understanding of their ancestral home - to them going to India or whatever is like a white dude going to India etc almost so it's just gonna get silly for those guys to claim they aren't british because they are just left with nothing (especially when they only speak english lol).
You'd be surprised about how well the culture is kept at Desi families.
Yes most may change slightly but the core beliefs won't. Thats just an observation...
Original post by Kutta
You'd be surprised about how well the culture is kept at Desi families. Yes most may change slightly but the core beliefs won't.
Thats just an observation...
Yes most may change slightly but the core beliefs won't. Thats just an observation...
Very true. This is something shared by all South Asians on a whole. I think it's quite nice, but it can also end badly.
I know for a fact I will pass the proper sanskar to my children and they will learn about their country, their ancestry and belief system. After that, it's their road in life. But I still wood expect them to be British citizens first and foremost. No matter what, this is the country that sustains us. I believe all South Asians share the same tradition of passing teachings down the family.
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Original post by yaboy
Most probability don't consider themselves British over their ethnicity
and rightly so.
and rightly so.
As an "ethnic minority" who sees themselves as british, how does someone go about identifying with a race? The only thing I share with people of my race are certain physical characteristics, there's no such thing as a "races culture".
Original post by felamaslen
I never said the West can do no wrong, and I never said the West was the only heroic civilisation (and agree with neither statement, just to make things clear).
Listen, you do owe your freedom to the West, whether you like it or not. Everybody does. If it weren't for Britain and America, you would be living under the swastika or under the hammer and sickle, or under Japanese tyranny, or some other totalitarian or authoritarian system. It may be a little difficult to grasp, but freedom was handed down to you - by the West - before you were even born (as it was to me). Freedom is not a default condition of humanity, it is something for which many human lives were sacrificed; it is an idea which is extremely precious because we did not evolve with it, it was thought of and implemented over centuries. Please at least show a little humility and recognise this truth.
Listen, you do owe your freedom to the West, whether you like it or not. Everybody does. If it weren't for Britain and America, you would be living under the swastika or under the hammer and sickle, or under Japanese tyranny, or some other totalitarian or authoritarian system. It may be a little difficult to grasp, but freedom was handed down to you - by the West - before you were even born (as it was to me). Freedom is not a default condition of humanity, it is something for which many human lives were sacrificed; it is an idea which is extremely precious because we did not evolve with it, it was thought of and implemented over centuries. Please at least show a little humility and recognise this truth.
Not taking sides here, just pointing out that dictators like the Nazis may not have come into power without the actions of the West, in this case the treaty of Versailles. However, we don't know how bad the alternative course of history would've been.
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Original post by Sheldor
Not taking sides here, just pointing out that dictators like the Nazis may not have come into power without the actions of the West, in this case the treaty of Versailles. However, we don't know how bad the alternative course of history would've been.
While the treaty of Versailles was harsh, it wasn't, in itself*, fully or even partially to blame for the rise in totalitarianism in many parts of the world after WW1. Post-1918 the old British world order was disrupted, and - while I'm not defending British imperialism - I don't think it's any accident that when other ideas were adopted (i.e. fascism and communism, vs. the liberalism of the anglosphere), things got a hell of a lot worse than simple non-self-government (and maybe a few genocides, but nothing on a par with the world wars or Asian mass-genocides of the 20th century). I would rather be a subject of the British empire than of USSR or Nazi tyranny, if it came to that. I guess what I'm saying is that British ideas about how to run a country have proven to be more compatible with human rights than most others, and we forget that at our peril as human beings, in our quest for something "different".
* I recognise that WW1 was a big mistake on the part of the Western powers and that lots of mass murder would not have occurred without it, what I mean by "in itself" is that it wasn't any legitimate grievance of the Germans which was to blame for Nazism, but the Nazi ideas themselves.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by felamaslen
While the treaty of Versailles was harsh, it wasn't, in itself*, fully or even partially to blame for the rise in totalitarianism in many parts of the world after WW1. Post-1918 the old British world order was disrupted, and - while I'm not defending British imperialism - I don't think it's any accident that when other ideas were adopted (i.e. fascism and communism, vs. the liberalism of the anglosphere), things got a hell of a lot worse than simple non-self-government (and maybe a few genocides, but nothing on a par with the world wars or Asian mass-genocides of the 20th century). I would rather be a subject of the British empire than of USSR or Nazi tyranny, if it came to that. I guess what I'm saying is that British ideas about how to run a country have proven to be more compatible with human rights than most others, and we forget that at our peril as human beings, in our quest for something "different".
* I recognise that WW1 was a big mistake on the part of the Western powers and that lots of mass murder would not have occurred without it, what I mean by "in itself" is that it wasn't any legitimate grievance of the Germans which was to blame for Nazism, but the Nazi ideas themselves.
* I recognise that WW1 was a big mistake on the part of the Western powers and that lots of mass murder would not have occurred without it, what I mean by "in itself" is that it wasn't any legitimate grievance of the Germans which was to blame for Nazism, but the Nazi ideas themselves.
My point was that if the Nazi ideals hadn't appealed to a country of people who had been alienated by the the rest of the world, left in economic ruin and blamed for the war, they wouldn't have risen to power. In the rest of Europe and the world, the rise of certain regimes was due to very different things.
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Original post by Sheldor
My point was that if the Nazi ideals hadn't appealed to a country of people who had been alienated by the the rest of the world, left in economic ruin and blamed for the war, they wouldn't have risen to power. In the rest of Europe and the world, the rise of certain regimes was due to very different things.
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Yes, I suppose that is true. The Germans did have a legitimate grievance against the West in the 1920s, but not a legitimate grievance against liberalism or capitalism (the West's values).
Original post by deehee
Do they feel British ?
Why do they need constant re-assurance that they are British ?
Why do they need constant re-assurance that they are British ?
Some might feel British whilst others might not. I was unaware of any necessity for 'constant re-assurance'.
Since I've lived here all my life, yes I feel British. However, I'm of african and caribbean decent, so I identify with those culture as well. Doesn't mean I feel any less British though.
Original post by elohssa
I agree. Being called British is like being compared to a dog.
I don't think you should be saying those words!!
After reading through this thread, I take back my words now. They were foolish and I sincerely apologise to the nation that took my family in and welcomed us on equal terms. We should be grateful 
. I think every nation has its diamonds and pebbles and none should be better than the other.
Born and brought up in Baghdad, moved to London at ten where I grew into adulthood taking full advantage of the benefits of a relatively free, secular and liberal society afforded to me (from education to the simple enjoyment of life without any irrational cultural/religious shackles to hold me back). A decade later I started spending virtually half of the time in the Middle-East and the other half back in the only stable home I've ever known and I continue to do so to this day. I've never had any issues with "identity" (whether British, Iraqi, Arab or whatever - never needed to define them, even) and always felt comfortable between different cultures. If anything, the hardest clash came from my rejecting religion in my mid-teens which briefly affected my interaction among fellow Arabs early on but I quickly got the hang of diplomacy in religious and political discourse in the MENA and, ever since, things have been sailing as smoothly as they've always been for me in Britain.
Getting greedy now, though - I might become a traitor and try America for a little while.
Getting greedy now, though - I might become a traitor and try America for a little while.
Original post by xxKiaraxx
I don't really regard myself as British, mainly because I think nobody else does. As the saying goes, "Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armour, and it can never be used to hurt you."
did u seriously just qoute Tyrion lol!?!!?
Original post by felamaslen
I never said the West can do no wrong, and I never said the West was the only heroic civilisation (and agree with neither statement, just to make things clear).
Listen, you do owe your freedom to the West, whether you like it or not. Everybody does. If it weren't for Britain and America, you would be living under the swastika or under the hammer and sickle, or under Japanese tyranny, or some other totalitarian or authoritarian system. It may be a little difficult to grasp, but freedom was handed down to you - by the West - before you were even born (as it was to me). Freedom is not a default condition of humanity, it is something for which many human lives were sacrificed; it is an idea which is extremely precious because we did not evolve with it, it was thought of and implemented over centuries. Please at least show a little humility and recognise this truth.
Listen, you do owe your freedom to the West, whether you like it or not. Everybody does. If it weren't for Britain and America, you would be living under the swastika or under the hammer and sickle, or under Japanese tyranny, or some other totalitarian or authoritarian system. It may be a little difficult to grasp, but freedom was handed down to you - by the West - before you were even born (as it was to me). Freedom is not a default condition of humanity, it is something for which many human lives were sacrificed; it is an idea which is extremely precious because we did not evolve with it, it was thought of and implemented over centuries. Please at least show a little humility and recognise this truth.
If I remember anything from my history classes in school, it was that the British were the first to come up with the idea of concentration camps during the Boer war in South Africa. It was also a British man Sir Francis Galton who wrote Hitler's favourite book on Eugenics and coined the term. His views I believe were widely accepted and he received many awards during his career including a knighthood and being made a fellow of the Royal Society in 1860.
Before the first world war Britain and Germany because of imperialism and militarism were engaged in an armed race, trying to show off which one was the better and more powerful country. They build up alliances across Europe that dragged everyone into a war so technically if they had been no imperialism, no war and no treaty maybe no Hitler.
Anywhere, what I'm pointing out is that Britain has not always been on the good side of freedom i.e. they started slavery and then they abolished it first, but they wouldn't have had to abolish it if they hadn't started it in the first place.
However, I still appreciate their effort, ifs and buts don't matter.
Original post by Almar
Am the only one who feels that way? To be honest I can't really explain it. I mean I have always admired British people for, all the advances in science and technology that they have achieved but apart from that the label carries negativity to me. Maybe this might have something to do with the area I live (not far from a council estate), it's full of narrow minded dumb British people who act like sluts and thugs. I generally feel that British society is degenerate in nature at least compared to my country of origin. I know my view is not representative of all British people, but it's hard to shake of this view if you only hang out with your own people and all you experience of Britishness is my neighbourhood and EastEnders
I can't afford to
I can't afford to
Wow... I hate when people are like this. You are the type of person to go "please don't judge all muslims for what a small minority of extremists do" but then you turn around and say British culture is degenerate and filled with thugs and sluts basing this statement entirely off your experience of a small amount of British people from a rough council estate.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Almar
If I remember anything from my history classes in school, it was that the British were the first to come up with the idea of concentration camps during the Boer war in South Africa. It was also a British man Sir Francis Galton who wrote Hitler's favourite book on Eugenics and coined the term. His views I believe were widely accepted and he received many awards during his career including a knighthood and being made a fellow of the Royal Society in 1860.
Before the first world war Britain and Germany because of imperialism and militarism were engaged in an armed race, trying to show off which one was the better and more powerful country. They build up alliances across Europe that dragged everyone into a war so technically if they had been no imperialism, no war and no treaty maybe no Hitler.
Anywhere, what I'm pointing out is that Britain has not always been on the good side of freedom i.e. they started slavery and then they abolished it first, but they wouldn't have had to abolish it if they hadn't started it in the first place.
However, I still appreciate their effort, ifs and buts don't matter.
If I remember anything from my history classes in school, it was that the British were the first to come up with the idea of concentration camps during the Boer war in South Africa. It was also a British man Sir Francis Galton who wrote Hitler's favourite book on Eugenics and coined the term. His views I believe were widely accepted and he received many awards during his career including a knighthood and being made a fellow of the Royal Society in 1860.
Before the first world war Britain and Germany because of imperialism and militarism were engaged in an armed race, trying to show off which one was the better and more powerful country. They build up alliances across Europe that dragged everyone into a war so technically if they had been no imperialism, no war and no treaty maybe no Hitler.
Anywhere, what I'm pointing out is that Britain has not always been on the good side of freedom i.e. they started slavery and then they abolished it first, but they wouldn't have had to abolish it if they hadn't started it in the first place.
However, I still appreciate their effort, ifs and buts don't matter.
They did not start slavery thank you very much. Arab slave traders where around enslaving christian and european peoples long before the British got involved.
Lol, British. Britain is rotting on the inside and you can largely thank the English for that. Unless there is a republic with full devolution (splitting up the country into more than just 3/4 parts) then the country will collapse.
Original post by Almar
If I remember anything from my history classes in school, it was that the British were the first to come up with the idea of concentration camps during the Boer war in South Africa. It was also a British man Sir Francis Galton who wrote Hitler's favourite book on Eugenics and coined the term. His views I believe were widely accepted and he received many awards during his career including a knighthood and being made a fellow of the Royal Society in 1860.
Before the first world war Britain and Germany because of imperialism and militarism were engaged in an armed race, trying to show off which one was the better and more powerful country. They build up alliances across Europe that dragged everyone into a war so technically if they had been no imperialism, no war and no treaty maybe no Hitler.
Anywhere, what I'm pointing out is that Britain has not always been on the good side of freedom i.e. they started slavery and then they abolished it first, but they wouldn't have had to abolish it if they hadn't started it in the first place.
However, I still appreciate their effort, ifs and buts don't matter.
If I remember anything from my history classes in school, it was that the British were the first to come up with the idea of concentration camps during the Boer war in South Africa. It was also a British man Sir Francis Galton who wrote Hitler's favourite book on Eugenics and coined the term. His views I believe were widely accepted and he received many awards during his career including a knighthood and being made a fellow of the Royal Society in 1860.
Before the first world war Britain and Germany because of imperialism and militarism were engaged in an armed race, trying to show off which one was the better and more powerful country. They build up alliances across Europe that dragged everyone into a war so technically if they had been no imperialism, no war and no treaty maybe no Hitler.
Anywhere, what I'm pointing out is that Britain has not always been on the good side of freedom i.e. they started slavery and then they abolished it first, but they wouldn't have had to abolish it if they hadn't started it in the first place.
However, I still appreciate their effort, ifs and buts don't matter.
Hahahahaha. Seriously?
Arab slave traders were notorious, what about the Egyptians or the Romans? Are you seriously denying the extent slavery has been around in human history? It has been around a lot longer than the political entity of England has been around, let alone the United Kingdom.
But you are right, the UK did abolish it and actively police the banning of slavery around the world, whilst the French, Portugese, Arabs, African slave traders were getting rich off it. The UK government went to war with nations to stop them from using slavery, it ultimately changed the world for the better.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Almar
I don't think you should be saying those words!! After reading through this thread, I take back my words now. They were foolish and I sincerely apologise to the nation that took my family in and welcomed us on equal terms. We should be grateful .
I think every nation has its diamonds and pebbles and none should be better than the other.
After reading through this thread, I take back my words now. They were foolish and I sincerely apologise to the nation that took my family in and welcomed us on equal terms. We should be grateful . I think every nation has its diamonds and pebbles and none should be better than the other.
Every man and his dog can be British - there is no requirement to speak English or behave a certain way. It means nothing. So being called British is like being compared to a dog.
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