Is it possible to be *-ist to a majority/unoppressed group?
This is a regular debate that myself a friend have, and our arguments are usually based in the UK.
The main components we discuss are:
-Can you be sexist to men?
-Can you be racist to white* people?
On one side the argument is that you can't, because men/white people in the UK have never been oppressed and so it is not insulting. This is not my opinion, but I would be genuinely interested and willing to read if someone had a well-reasoned opinion as to why this the case.
On the other side the argument is that you can, because racism etc is not necessarily related to oppression, and it would be possible for a women to be sexist towards a man, and a non-white to be racist to a white.
Discuss :P
*Sorry just to clarify in the case of the UK that is white british people as opposed to for example white european immigrants, as it is a given that you can be and many people are racist towards that group.
The main components we discuss are:
-Can you be sexist to men?
-Can you be racist to white* people?
On one side the argument is that you can't, because men/white people in the UK have never been oppressed and so it is not insulting. This is not my opinion, but I would be genuinely interested and willing to read if someone had a well-reasoned opinion as to why this the case.
On the other side the argument is that you can, because racism etc is not necessarily related to oppression, and it would be possible for a women to be sexist towards a man, and a non-white to be racist to a white.
Discuss :P
*Sorry just to clarify in the case of the UK that is white british people as opposed to for example white european immigrants, as it is a given that you can be and many people are racist towards that group.
(edited 10 years ago)
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Yes, it is. Racism/sexism is about discriminating against someone based on their race/sex. It's not about the oppression :/
Original post by Marfyy
This is a regular debate that myself a friend have, and our arguments are usually based in the UK.
The main components we discuss are:
-Can you be sexist to men?
-Can you be racist to white* people?
On one side the argument is that you can't, because men/white people in the UK have never been oppressed and so it is not insulting. This is not my opinion, but I would be genuinely interested and willing to read if someone had a well-reasoned opinion as to why this the case.
On the other side the argument is that you can, because racism etc is not necessarily related to oppression, and it would be possible for a women to be sexist towards a man, and a non-white to be racist to a white.
Discuss :P
*Sorry just to clarify in the case of the UK that is white british people as opposed to for example white european immigrants, as it is a given that you can be and many people are racist towards that group.
The main components we discuss are:
-Can you be sexist to men?
-Can you be racist to white* people?
On one side the argument is that you can't, because men/white people in the UK have never been oppressed and so it is not insulting. This is not my opinion, but I would be genuinely interested and willing to read if someone had a well-reasoned opinion as to why this the case.
On the other side the argument is that you can, because racism etc is not necessarily related to oppression, and it would be possible for a women to be sexist towards a man, and a non-white to be racist to a white.
Discuss :P
*Sorry just to clarify in the case of the UK that is white british people as opposed to for example white european immigrants, as it is a given that you can be and many people are racist towards that group.
It is good to be sexist to both men and women, racist to black and white, and both homophobic and heterophobic all at the same time. This way you are challenging the over-extension of the idea of sensitivity.
Statements like "you talk about Romanians and Polish but why not about people from Africa" are especially useful for challenging stereotypes and prejudice.
(edited 10 years ago)
Of course. Poster #2 is spot on.
(edited 10 years ago)
Yes. I once got called a milky bar.
(Not necessarily my opinion.) The argument for 'no' is usually; ...but to claim that these experiences were ‘reverse racism’ both diminishes and minimalizes the real and actual experiences of PoC who really do encounter racism. There is no system of oppression in (America) that actively works to oppress and subjugate white people. Sorry to break it to you, but your individual suffering is just that, individual. The individuals acting against you do not have the institutionalized power to actively oppress you in every facet of your life, nor would their racism be upheld and supported by government, media, and legislation if they did. Because you’re white.
Reverse racism isn’t real because we live in a culture that supports and enforces whiteness as the norm and PoC as other. If you experience discrimination, prejudice, or bigotry, it’s valid to be upset about it and want to talk about it. It is not valid to claim that it is reverse racism, and certainly not valid to claim that it is racism on par with anything like the institutionalized racism that PoC will come into contact with.
When white people complain about experiencing reverse racism, what they’re really complaining about is losing out on or being denied their already existing privileges. And while it may feel bad to realize your privilege is crumbling and the things you’ve taken for granted can be taken away from you, it is unfair, untrue, and disingenuous to call that experience reverse racism. *
A Tumblr; http://reverseracism.tumblr.com/
A youtube video;
Another link; http://www.raceandhistory.com/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1024893033,80611,.shtml
Reverse racism isn’t real because we live in a culture that supports and enforces whiteness as the norm and PoC as other. If you experience discrimination, prejudice, or bigotry, it’s valid to be upset about it and want to talk about it. It is not valid to claim that it is reverse racism, and certainly not valid to claim that it is racism on par with anything like the institutionalized racism that PoC will come into contact with.
When white people complain about experiencing reverse racism, what they’re really complaining about is losing out on or being denied their already existing privileges. And while it may feel bad to realize your privilege is crumbling and the things you’ve taken for granted can be taken away from you, it is unfair, untrue, and disingenuous to call that experience reverse racism. *
A Tumblr; http://reverseracism.tumblr.com/
A youtube video;
Another link; http://www.raceandhistory.com/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1024893033,80611,.shtml
(edited 10 years ago)
Ok, if I want to employ people but I decided one condition is that they have to be black. I am being racist to everyone else. Therefore it is not open to debate. Poster #2 was spot on. Yes.
Original post by awe
QFA
Being racist is discriminating on the basis of race. Since you can discriminate against white British people, yes you can be racist to majorities. Reverse-racism can't exist. Racism isn't just white -> XXXX. It can be any combination of ethnicities.
Original post by Cryptographic
Being racist is discriminating on the basis of race. Since you can discriminate against white British people, yes you can be racist to majorities. Reverse-racism can't exist. Racism isn't just white -> XXXX. It can be any combination of ethnicities.
(Note my first sentence on my post.)
Sorry then, it is just when people twist things, which looking back I see you didn't do, I feel the need to jump in. *Sorry*
Original post by awe
(Note my first sentence on my post.)
(Note my first sentence on my post.)
That would be like saying it is impossible to be racist against black people in South Africa, since they are the majority group and the white Boers are the most oppressed. Or that in Zimbabwe, it is only possible to be racist against people of white English descent, since they are the most oppressed there by the Mugabe tyranny. Or that it is impossible to be anti-Semitic in Israel.
You can be prejudiced against anybody, and you can oppress anybody or be oppressed by anybody. Imposing restrictions on the meaning based on perceived levels of prejudice is ludicrous. Moreover, it is harmful, because real oppression of, or prejudice against designated "majority" groups can then be ignored.
You can be prejudiced against anybody, and you can oppress anybody or be oppressed by anybody. Imposing restrictions on the meaning based on perceived levels of prejudice is ludicrous. Moreover, it is harmful, because real oppression of, or prejudice against designated "majority" groups can then be ignored.
(edited 10 years ago)
Racism is about power, so yes it is about oppression. A minority cannot be racist towards the majority and women cannot be sexist towards men because men have more power in society.
Original post by mariocasas
women cannot be sexist towards men because men have more power in society.
Wut.
That is a whole other debate.
Original post by Marfyy
Wut.
That is a whole other debate.
That is a whole other debate.
Umm, it's actually the title of the topic.
Original post by mariocasas
Umm, it's actually the title of the topic.
Nowhere in the title does it say 'men have power in society than women'
What it does say is that men have never been oppressed.
Original post by mariocasas
Racism is about power, so yes it is about oppression. A minority cannot be racist towards the majority and women cannot be sexist towards men because men have more power in society.
If a black person denied a white person a job purely because they were white, would that not be racist?
Original post by Marfyy
Nowhere in the title does it say 'men have power in society than women'
What it does say is that men have never been oppressed.
What it does say is that men have never been oppressed.
Men have being oppressed. Once upon a time not all men had the vote.
Furthermore men were forced into conscription via the army and thus didn't have much freedom of choice, thereby making them oppressed
Feminine qualities some men exhibit have being frowned upon and society oppresses men from acting in this way
Men have less of a say in child custody, another form of oppression.
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