Why don't brown people feel guilty about slavery and colonialism? Watch

imtelling
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Historically speaking, the largest enslavers of black Africans were brown people.

From the 7th century to the abolition of slavery in Saudi Arabia in 1962, which is a timespan of fourteen hundred years, over 20 million black Sub Saharan Africans were enslaved by brown people. ( they also enslaved 3 million white people )



I ask this question because we live in a culture which is saturated by the concept of 'white guilt' -- or shame for the ( real or imagined ) sins of the father in other words.

But, this concept does not seem to apply to other groups.

I just want to know why brown people are not asked to feel guilty, or to apologise, for the past sins of their ancestors? This does not just apply to slavery, but also to their history of colonialism which also started in the 7th century and culminated in the genocide of 1.5 million Armenian Christians in the early 20th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

We are supposed to live in a multicultural society, so its only fair the crimes of other people be taught as standard on the curriculum otherwise it creates a distorted picture of history.


EDIT:

Also, shouldn't brown people feel guilty and apologise for the 800 year occupation and oppression of Spain?

How about the constant attempts to sack Western Europe which resulted in the deaths of millions of Europeans as they were forced to defend their lands from rape and pillage -- From the 'Battle of Tours' to 'the Battle of Lepanto', brown people tried to invade western Europe for almost a thousand years. Where is the guilt for these crimes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto
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Armin.
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I don't believe the history that is written by the same white europeans that have enslaved people as well.


The guy in the video sounds like he's talking about the discovery of aliens I couldn't bear his voice.
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imtelling
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(Original post by Armin.)
I don't believe the history that is written by the same white europeans that have enslaved people as well.


The guy in the video sounds like he's talking about the discovery of aliens I couldn't bear his voice.

Apart from the first few seconds, the video is narrated by a black scholar named John Allembillah Azumah. The information comes from his book. But, this isn't a controversial issue. The only controversy is why there is so little spoken about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade






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TurboCretin
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Interesting
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russellsteapot
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I think much of the issue of how much guilt people feel depends on how civilised the offending country is. Most of the middle east is still under-developed in this respect, and racism is still effectively promoted by many of their governments, or otherwise not proscribed by law.

People in the UK and USA, for example, are (relatively - I realise there are still issues of racism) equally-regarded by their peers and by the law irrespective of their skin colour. Compare that to Saudi Arabia's lovely ban on blacks serving in anything above menial government positions.

Countries with that kind of attitude probably don't feel guilty because they feel they have no reason to. Collective guilt only tends to form when an act becomes socially unacceptable in the eyes of a majority of the population.
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Meenglishnogood
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(Original post by imtelling)
Historically speaking, the largest enslavers of black Africans were brown people.

From the 7th century to the abolition of slavery in Saudi Arabia in 1962, which isa timespan of fourteen hundred years, over 20 million black Sub Saharan Africans were enslaved by brown people. ( they also enslaved 3 million white people )



I ask this question because we live in culture which is saturated by the concept of 'white guilt', or shame for the ( real or imagined ) sins of the father in other words. But, this concept does not seem to apply to other groups.

I just want to know why brown people are not asked to feel guilty, or to apologise, for the past sins of the ancestors? This does not just apply to slavery, but also to their history of colonialism which also started in the 7th century and culminated in the genocide of 1.5 million Armenian Christians in the early 20th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

We are supposed to live in a multicultural society, so its only fair the crimes of other people be taught as standard on the curriculum otherwise it creates a distorted picture of history.
well constructed fallacy -vast majority of brown people in the world at this time did not have anything invested in this slave trade - So when you say ignorantly say 'brown people' you are actually referring to the islamic slave trades. in that case most muslims nowadays are indoctrinated to either ignorance or to make apologist excuses for slavery in islam, so that is the answer to your question in that case.

in terms of 'white' slavery the reason we discuss it here is becuase of the wests tradition of hsitroical analysis and intellectualism, which does not shelter form the west own lurid past. the european slave trade was in particular discussion worthy becuase of its global scale and ruthless efficiency under which it took place- it basically bankrolled most of the modernisation of most of europe , south africa and pre- independant usa.

i actually think it is not discussed enough in this country, i dont think it forms the syllabus of basic gcse or a level history? whereas in america they study their slave history and civil rights movement in great detail
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limetang
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Why should anybody feel guilty about anything they weren't involved in?

See. You get it all the time... this idea that because someone is white they should feel guilty or apologise for the atrocities done by other white people. It's as moronic as thinking that because Hitler had black hair, all black haired people are somehow responsible for the holocaust (godwins law =P ).
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arxtra
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Unfortunatey, the Islamic world, being just as guilty of slavery as any other colonialist imperial system, institutionalised slavery in its religious creed. For a Musim to feel guilty over the fact that their religious leaders including Muhammad and all other caliphs thereafter enslaved people would be to admit a fault in this supposedly divine sanctioning of the practice and a fault in the supposedy perfect example of their prophet.

Instead, as we have seen even in this forum, apologists make excuses for it while still condoning the ownership of people as chattle. Only those who are not shackled by an ideology such as Islam can be honest enough to admit the faults of past behaviour and progressive enough to outright condemn it.
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Asolare
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Nobody should be feeling guilty or apologise for what their ancestors did. It's disgusting when coloured people try and play the guilt card on the whites just to try and "score a point".

To answer the original q. Because coloured people would rather blame whites than people of their own ethnicity, complete sense of ignorance basically.

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Meenglishnogood
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(Original post by limetang)
Why should anybody feel guilty about anything they weren't involved in?

See. You get it all the time... this idea that because someone is white they should feel guilty or apologise for the atrocities done by other white people. It's as moronic as thinking that because Hitler had black hair, all black haired people are somehow responsible for the holocaust (godwins law =P ).
hitler had brown hair
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limetang
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(Original post by Meenglishnogood)
hitler had brown hair
Shh... point still stands =P
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Meenglishnogood
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(Original post by limetang)
Shh... point still stands =P
i dont think its a good point. it would be better to point out that skin ( or hair colour is irrelevant - what is reelvant is ideology. the nazi ideology , you could argue was a follow on of slaveing european ideology of superiority over other races etc. similarly islamic ideology was of superioirty over other religions. both these ideologies were wrong, and in effect , led to the principle of slavery.

there are people today that still espouse this idea of 'superiority' ( in perhaps more subtle forms) so it is these people and their ideology we should attack
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limetang
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(Original post by Meenglishnogood)
i dont think its a good point. it would be better to point out that skin ( or hair colour is irrelevant - what is reelvant is ideology. the nazi ideology , you could argue was a follow on of slaveing european ideology of superiority over other races etc. similarly islamic ideology was of superioirty over other religions. both these ideologies were wrong, and in effect , led to the principle of slavery.

there are people today that still espouse this idea of 'superiority' ( in perhaps more subtle forms) so it is these people and their ideology we should attack
Well except that you do essentially get blame levied on people on the basis of race here. The very question asked here is about why skin colour X doesn't feel guilty about slavery. The point being that just because people who took part in this had brown skin doesn't mean that all brown skinned people from then on til the end of time are responsible for it.
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Meenglishnogood
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(Original post by limetang)
Well except that you do essentially get blame levied on people on the basis of race here. The very question asked here is about why skin colour X doesn't feel guilty about slavery. The point being that just because people who took part in this had brown skin doesn't mean that all brown skinned people from then on til the end of time are responsible for it.
skin colour as i said had nothing to do with it. that the early muslims happended to be brown doesnt matter, becuase most of the people they enslaved were black or brown ( ie the ancestors of most modern muslims today ironically). guilt doesnt come into it
but that doesnt mean which not discuss and learn about all of this. we are taught in school about the evils of naziism, not to bash the germans, but the ideology itself. so why then shouldnt we also learn in school about the european slavers and colonialism.
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browndruidess
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I see my previous replies to you inspired you make an entire thread about this. Got you thinking didn't I?

You're still wrong though. But like Aaliyah sang so beautifully, if at first you don't suceeeeed, pick it up and try again, try again!
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imtelling
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(Original post by Meenglishnogood)
well constructed fallacy -vast majority of brown people in the world at this time did not have anything invested in this slave trade
Yes, and the vast, vast, vast majority of Europeans at the time had nothing to do with slavery either, which is one of the points i am getting at.

So i ask again, why no 'brown guilt' for their role in the slave trade?
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imtelling
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(Original post by browndruidess)
I see my previous replies to you inspired you make an entire thread about this. Got you thinking didn't I?

You're still wrong though. But like Aaliyah sang so beautifully, if at first you don't suceeeeed, pick it up and try again, try again!

Who are you? What comment are you talking about?
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Meenglishnogood
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(Original post by imtelling)
Yes, and the vast, vast, vast majority of Europeans at the time and nothing to do with slavery either.

Why then, does the concept of 'white guilt' exist and not 'brown guilt'?
no you didnt get the point of the post - the vast majority of the brown (and black) people of the time had nothing invested in slavery, is what i said, in fact many were victims. the whole of white europe, and other white colonies, benefitted form the slave trade, either directly or indirectly.
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DanB1991
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To be honest african's, muslims, white people, south east asians, etc etc etc are all guilty concerning slavery. In fact the only ethinic group I can't really think was involved were native Americans.

The eastern african slave trade actually continued until the 70's and slavery within Africa continues to this day. The main difference with slavery concerning those brought by whites, was firstly the scale, number of slaves during it's relatively short timespan, the later colonisation of africa and the state of african countries as a result. Also as the western world has been seen as world leaders for at least the last 300 year's we are expected to be a positive example to the rest of the world.

By comparision no-one blames african's because of how poor they now are and the fact until the rush for africa started, rather sadly human beings were the main trade commodity, no-one blames the muslim world due to it's effective collapse around the 17th century and no-one blames the south eastern asian peoples due to the fact only recently they have gain any wealth (since the timescale that they were introduced to western countries).
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imtelling
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(Original post by Meenglishnogood)
no you didnt get the point of the post - the vast majority of the brown (and black) people of the time had nothing invested in slavery, is what i said, in fact many were victims. the whole of white europe, and other white colonies, benefitted form the slave trade, either directly or indirectly.

But many white people were victims of slavery too. Brown people relentlessly slave raided Europe for almost thousand and didn't even begin to slow down until 1816 when America bombed Algiers in retaliation to brown people enslaving Europeans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombard...Algiers_(1816)

But, the vast mass of Europeans had nothing INVESTED in slavery either, Neither directly or indirectly -- during the height of slavery in Britain it contributed less than 5% of GDP.
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