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Ways in which men are oppressed in the UK.

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The suicide issue stems for the "man up" culture which forces men not to seek help with their problems and to hide it from society, otherwise they will face ridicule. Women are actively encouraged to talk about their emotions and it is socially acceptable for a women to show negative emotions in public. Whereas for men it is frowned upon and sometimes actively dismissed.

It is the fault of society at large, which is why we see such high suicide rates in men.

Well that is something we will have to agree to disagree on.

Reply 61

DiddyDec01

Original post by EllieC130

Well that is something we will have to agree to disagree on.

What are we disagreeing on the whole concept or just part of it?

[video="youtube;1KHesKpLRfI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHesKpLRfI[/video]

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 62

andypee

laughing at all these whiney white men hahaha

actual get a grip and smash the patriarchy

Reply 63

EllieC130

Original post by DiddyDec

What are we disagreeing on the whole concept or just part of it?

[video="youtube;1KHesKpLRfI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHesKpLRfI[/video]

In short I think the whole "man up" culture, while a possible partial cause, is not fully to blame for the number of male suicides.

Reply 64

DiddyDec01

Original post by andypee

laughing at all these whiney white men hahaha

actual get a grip and smash the patriarchy

What patriarchy?

Reply 65

andypee

Original post by DiddyDec

What patriarchy?

howlin'

do your research mate

Reply 66

DanB1991

Original post by imtelling

13: Men are told they are losers and sexually deficient if they dare speak up against the oppression which effects them.

Think the "Are all whiny threads from men about women due to lack of sex?" thread kind of proves this point....

Reply 67

DiddyDec01

Original post by andypee

howlin'

do your research mate

There is no such thing. I have done my research.

Reply 68

markyb76

Oh, I thought this thread disappeared.

I would not call it 'oppression'. I feel there are areas in society where males are $%^& on areas where females are $%%& on and a non gender specific movement advocating equality of treatment for everyone regardless of gender, race, age etc is needed.

Having said that spending on health care and research lags woefully behind for males when compared to females in the UK.

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/44858/

http://www.parity-uk.org/mens_health.php

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 69

Jubz1

Men aren't 'oppressed' in the UK, discriminated against in certain areas, yes.

Reply 70

DiddyDec01

Original post by markyb76

Oh, I thought this thread disappeared.

It did. Maybe their are some non-bias mods after all

Reply 71

lucaf

In what way is education focused on female strengths (considering boys are considered to do better at exams, which are the main assessment throughout education)? And the ADHD thing is bull****, it is a world away from being boisterous. Aside from that, agree with most of the other points.

Reply 72

blue n white army

As I've said in many feminist threads.

- Women are screwed over in certain situations

- Men are screwed over in different situations.

Men and women both face inequalities neither is oppressed, the sooner that both sides of this ridiculous never ending argument understand this the sooner we can actually achieve proper equality.

Reply 73

DiddyDec01

Original post by blue n white army

I have to agree with you there on all points.

Reply 74

Le Nombre

Original post by imtelling

.

9: Divorce settlements are heavily discriminatory against men. Men are routinely ordered to hand over huge sums of their personal wealth, even to blatant gold diggers. ( see the Paul Mcarthy/Heather Mills settlement )

Divorce settlements are about who has the better brief in most cases, it's a persuasion game. Also, it's not your personal wealth, when you marry you agree, knowingly or not, that your assets are pooled.

Child custody is more difficult, but you can win a child custody case for the father even where the mother previously had more contact. I know, I just won my uncle a residency order, and got more or less what he wanted on contact.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 75

Miss Ann Dairy

Original post by imtelling

Lets start with child custody:

Men are tremendously discriminated against in family courts.

Because winning single parenthood is such a privilege, they're not one of the most impoverished groups or anything.

Most men who apply for custody get it, the majority of cases are settle out of court meaning the majority of men don't even apply for custody, so why aren't most men applying for custody? Most custody in courts is given to whom spends the most time with the child before the spilt, which is mostly mothers.

are also forced to pay punitive costs to support the children they are not allowed to see

Child support is gender neutral, if the man has custody the woman is also required to pay.

-- payments which, a lot of the time at least, will be squandered on the mothers latest hair do or girls holiday away to Magaluf.

Source? Because single parenthood is such a lavished lifestyle right... :rolleyes:

The fact you make men's rights issues in to a troll thread in an effort to receive virtual female attention speaks volumes to the inherrent lack of sincerity in this "movement".

1: Child custody heavily biased in favour of women.

Already explained, most fathers receive custody when apply, most cases are settled outside of court.

2: No support for male victims of domestic violence.

https://www.thecalmzone.net/

The director of which is a feminist.

http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/mens_advice.php.html

http://www.ncdv.org.uk/male-domestic-violence-awareness-week/

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pages/domestic-violence-against-men.aspx

http://refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-men/

3: Discrimination in prison system, with men more likely to be jailed and serve longer sentences.

Class and race issues also a factor in sentences.
The law is worded gender neutrally the bias happens within the courts due to women being seen as weak and taken less seriously.

4: 84% of all homeless people are men.

Source? homelessness is a lot more gender equal than a lot of people present it. The primary causes of homelessness– poverty, lack of affordable housing, unemployment– affect everyone, regardless of gender. A large percentage of the increase in homeless families is probably caused by the recession: unemployment and lack of affordable housing were the two most commonly cited causes of the increase in homeless families. Third, it is important to note that there may be reasons why women are more likely to be housed than men that still don’t mean the women are in a particularly good situation. For instance, women are more likely to participate in survival sex in exchange for housing. “Survival sex or homelessness,” however, is one of those dilemmas that really leaves no one in a particularly good situation. - See more at: http://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-blog/why-are-men-more-likely-to-be-homeless/#sthash.Pgt2wbd3.dpuf

5: Men more likely to commit suicide than women.

Succeed at it, women attempt is in equal numbers.

6: 96% of work related fatalities are men.

Support labours unions and worker rights, and feminists work to allow women in to dangerous places.

7: Being told to 'man up' and not complain when they dare to speak up about anti-male discrimination.

Gender roles should be fought against and are. The west gender roles have gotten way more liberal thanks to those challenging these notions.

8: Men have no anonymity if they are accused of rape, and so false rape allegations routinely ruin mens lives and careers.

Do women? Do they have anonymity of any other crime. And given how small false allegations are, that would result in many people effected.

9: Divorce settlements are heavily discriminatory against men.

Nope. Again, the law is gender neutral. The one with most loses but both have the option of having a pre nup available which as an adult you make the choice not to take, how about some personal responsibility?

Fiona Wood, a partner in family law at Pannone – which handles almost 400 divorces a year – said many well-paid female clients feel their husbands are being given an unfair share of the assets.
Couples' assets at the end of a marriage are divided on the basis of equality with their various needs taken into account.
Often the partner with the smaller salary can end up with a larger share of the equity of their home because they are judged to be less able to get a mortgage to buy somewhere new to live.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/divorce/9592462/How-female-breadwinners-are-losing-out-in-divorce.html

10: Men are seen as expendable by society; during the First World War, for example, feminists tried to shame men into joining the army by calling them cowards. Google the 'white feather movement'

You mean that movement that was founded by a man who nowhere identified as a feminist? It’s worth pointing out that at the start of WWI, people of all political stripes and in all the countries involved were pretty gung-ho for the war. Even the big socialist parties of the day quickly forgot their pledges of international solidarity in favor of supporting their national war efforts.So where do the evil feminists come in? Well, a couple of the most famous British suffragettes signed onto the White Feather crusade: Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst. And yes, they supported compulsory national service — though they supported it for both men and women: men would go to war, while women would be required to work in factories.
Of course, the Order of the White Feather didn’t represent all feminists at the time. Indeed, it didn’t even represent all the Pankhursts: Christabel’s sisters Sylvia and Adela were pacifists.
it’s highly misleading to present the story of the Order of the White Feather as “proof” that feminists are warmongering all-male-draft-lovers. As a quick visit to Google will demonstrate, feminism has a long history of antiwar activism, dating back to the 19th century — when feminists first organized Mother’s Day as a protest of war.

11: Education system is female centric; focusing on teaching methods which cater to female strengths.

Yeah because top science and math degrees are all dominated by females.

12: Young boys natural boisterous behaviour is considered a mental disorder, called ADHD. Boys are drugged for not acting like girls.

The fact you there is such a thing as "acting like a girl" shows your upholding of gender roles.

Girls also get ADHD so obviously the behaviour is not an exclusive "natural male" trait, especially given the majority aren't anywhere near diagnosed which they would be if you claim this "boisterous behaviour" is so naturally male. :rolleyes:

13: Men are told they are losers and sexually deficient if they dare speak up against the oppression which effects them.

Perhaps if the men's movement wasn't ran by such bitter loons completely disinterested which actually rights and just using as a cover to bash women and feminism, this wouldn't be the case? :wink:

Reply 76

DiddyDec01

Original post by Miss Ann Dairy

...

You mention the men's rights movement. However this thread is not about the men's rights movement. In fact it has nothing to do with MRAs.

You quite clearly have not read the rest of the thread where you will find the sources and information which you are looking for.

But more to the point as you have brought up feminism, do you not think that these issues brought up should be a feminist issue?

(an article which may be of interest to you. http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/may/07/men-gender-divide-feminism)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 77

Jordooooom

Original post by noobynoo

1: Child custody heavily biased in favour of women.
Obviously. How can a man breast feed a baby?
2: No support for male victims of domestic violence.
There is. But lets face it women don't rape men so much.
3: Discrimination in prison system, with men more likely to be jailed and serve longer sentences.
90% of murderers are men.
4: 84% of all homeless people are men.
99% of prostitutes are women.
5: Men more likely to commit suicide than women.
How is that discrimination?
6: 96% of work related fatalities are men.
100% of pregnancy related fatalities are women.
7: Being told to 'man up' and not complain when they dare to speak up about anti-male discrimination.
Man up. Stop complaining about anti-male discrimination.

This is one of the most idiotic replies I have ever seen. Lord knows how it got 3 reps

Reply 78

Miss Ann Dairy

Original post by DiddyDec

You mention the men's rights movement. However this thread is not about the men's rights movement.

It's clearly using their rhetoric verbatim.

In fact it has nothing to do with MRAs.

The bit where I mentioned them had complete relevance to what is being discussed.

You quite clearly have not read the rest of the thread where you will find the sources and information which you are looking for.

Because I'm CLEARLY going to read through 4 pages for sources that could easily be included on the op. I asked for like 2 source, it's not hard to post 2 links.

But more to the point as you have brought up feminism, do you not think that these issues brought up should be a feminist issue?

Suicide is covered by mental health charities.
Work place death is covered by labor unions and reform advocates.
Gender roles are diminished by feminist and liberal in general progression.

Reply 79

DiddyDec01

Original post by Miss Ann Dairy

Suicide is covered by mental health charities.
Work place death is covered by labor unions and reform advocates.
Gender roles are diminished by feminist and liberal in general progression.

If the statistics were reversed feminists would be all over these subjects like flies to hot ****.

Quite often the reason women attempt suicide is a cry for help so others around them can see that they are struggling with life but do not feel they have the strength to tell anyone. They are aware that there are people that love them and want to help them but don't know how to get that help. This is not the case for most men. Men feel as if there is no other solution to their problem and that nobody can help them and nobody loves them. The suicide rate for men is 3 times higher than that for women and has been for a long time. The general social structure that we see today also does not improve the outlook that men have on the world. Men are seen as weak for showing their emotions and therefore don't show their emotions until it is too late. They are not encouraged to speak about the problems they are having and from a young age are told that "boy don't cry" and "man up". Whereas for women this is completely. Women are encouraged to show their emotions and the express how they feel. If we truly want equality which I'm sure you are in favor of surely this issue needs to be addressed as an area of serious concern.

Now, on to work place deaths. Does it not worry you that 96% of the workplace fatalities (Source:http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/tables/index.htm) were men. Why is it that men are working dangerous jobs than women? Surely we should have a 50/50 split of gender for these dangerous jobs as that would be equality. That would be a public outcry if 96% of workplace fatalities were women, but somehow men are more "disposable" than women. Surely something should be done about this?

These issues are about equality and should be addressed by feminism. Because feminism promotes equality for both men and women. Apparently.