Hunting : Your views?
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Original post by Direstraights
Interesting. You hunt alone or with a group?
I have done both, generally it's with at least one other person.
Hunting alone can be dangerous in certain conditions, however certain times it makes the whole experience a lot more intense and rewarding.
I find these trophy photos of hunters next to their victims disgusting. Hunting for leisure, which is what the OP enjoys, is morally reprehensible in my opinion. No good comes from it; all it does is inflate one's ego and shows off their savagery. If you need to kill animals to have fun, then you need to assess your life. It isn't manly, it isn't cool and it sure as hell isn't fair to animals who pay the price of such fatal 'fun'.
Original post by Kathiye
I personally think that hunting for sport is terrible. It means that you value the brief rush you get from the 'thrill of the hunt' over the animal's life. It's a different matter if it's for meat or for a cull, although I would still find it a bit disturbing for someone to take enjoyment from the killing of an animal.
It's an evolved response to feel satisfaction at the completion of a task that historically signalled that you were going to get to live a few more days.
The fact that (for the most part) humanity no longer needs to hunt to eat, does not remove millions of years of evolved instinct and neurological/neurochemical reward systems.
It's very common for humans to receive that same rush and sense of satisfaction when killing other humans, we are not talking Pychopaths or damaged individuals/rare outliers , but average people who have taken lives for various circumstances.
Posing for a photo with an animal you've murdered is just disgusting
Original post by h3isenberg
I despise Melissa Bachman
Agreed.
Hunting Lions is just not on, I am still surprised it's legal anywhere.
Original post by Reluire
I find these trophy photos of hunters next to their victims disgusting.
I find it interesting you use the term victims, humanising or giving animals greater personal value or qualities is a very recent social phenominon.
Hunting for leisure, which is what the OP enjoys, is morally reprehensible in my opinion. No good comes from it; all it does is inflate one's ego and shows off their savagery. If you need to kill animals to have fun, then you need to assess your life.
For the record I will say that Hunting isn't the only way I can have fun far from it.
It isn't manly, it isn't cool
Though it's interesting you state "it isn't manly, it isn't cool" I personally don't know any Hunters who do it for either of those two reasons.
It can however often be very physically demanding and challenging and require great stamina and technical skill.
Is that still one of the standing examples of "Manliness" in 2014? I don't know to be honest, though it's not really relevent is it I suppose?
and it sure as hell isn't fair to animals who pay the price of such fatal 'fun'.
They live long lives, in the wild and are killed in a way that is more often than not quicker and less painful than if they were killed by other natural predators and certainly better than if they were to die of old age.
Just as nature intended.
(edited 9 years ago)
As a way to get meat for eating, or as part of a well managed cull then fine.
For the sole purpose of one having a bit of fun, not cool.
For the sole purpose of one having a bit of fun, not cool.
Original post by spanker
Hunting is fine if you are doing it for survival situations. But when you are hunting just for the sheer thrill of it, that is what I find disgusting.
Could you expand on why?
If that's alright.
Original post by mojojojo101
As a way to get meat for eating, or as part of a well managed cull then fine.
For the sole purpose of one having a bit of fun, not cool.
For the sole purpose of one having a bit of fun, not cool.
So if it wasn't for the sole purpose of having fun, but was for the purpose of having fun and getting say...some venison to eat at the weekend..would it be ok?
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
Could you expand on why?
If that's alright.
If that's alright.
I like animals and think they deserve to live more than humans, they have done nothing wrong it is people who are the problem with this world (bla bla hate on me for liking animals more than humans). I just generally hate people so yeah.
I honestly could easily turn vegetarian if I had to kill the animals myself, but I like my steak too much.
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
So if it wasn't for the sole purpose of having fun, but was for the purpose of having fun and getting say...some venison to eat at the weekend..would it be ok?
If I'm honest I would be a hypocrite if I said I haven't enjoyed hunting (mainly for rabbits), however it's not something I particularly like to do, killing things that is.
To answer your question, the area is too grey for generalisations. What I would say however is that enjoyment should be at most a minor consideration, I worry that many hunting enthusiasts will use the meat argument solely to justify their bloodlust.
I believe in the non-aggression principle, so obviously I see violence and causing pain as the pinnacle of evil
but would I ban hunting? I have no idea; I might say yes but then again this is an issue I've never really had a concrete opinion about
but would I ban hunting? I have no idea; I might say yes but then again this is an issue I've never really had a concrete opinion about
Original post by 29Bilal96
Don't personally agree with it...like I eat meat and all, but don't like the fact that hunting involves chasing the animal and putting it through even more unnecessary pain and terror.
It generally doesn't(With big game) if the animal sees you and runs, (or thinks something is up and runs) you aren't going to catch it anytime soon.
I would also argue that the meta from the store you eat, led a life of immensely greater suffering.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
I find it interesting you use the term victims, humanising or giving animals greater personal value or qualities is a very recent social phenominon.
For the record I will say that Hunting isn't the only way I can have fun far from it.
Though it's interesting you state "it isn't manly, it isn't cool" I personally don't know any Hunters who do it for either of those two reasons.
It can however often be very physically demanding and challenging and require great stamina and technical skill.
Is that still one of the standing examples of "Manliness" in 2014? I don't know to be honest, though it's not really relevent is it I suppose?
They live long lives, in the wild and are killed in a way that is more often than not quicker and less painful than if they were killed by other natural predators and certainly better than if they were to die of old age.
Just as nature intended.
For the record I will say that Hunting isn't the only way I can have fun far from it.
Though it's interesting you state "it isn't manly, it isn't cool" I personally don't know any Hunters who do it for either of those two reasons.
It can however often be very physically demanding and challenging and require great stamina and technical skill.
Is that still one of the standing examples of "Manliness" in 2014? I don't know to be honest, though it's not really relevent is it I suppose?
They live long lives, in the wild and are killed in a way that is more often than not quicker and less painful than if they were killed by other natural predators and certainly better than if they were to die of old age.
Just as nature intended.
Recent or not, the point stands. Why do you think you are so superior to any animal that you have the right to kill it for a thrill, for a challenge or even for your amusement?
Nobody will explicitly admit those are motivators to a 'sport' like hunting, but they are usually true, even if only in the subconscious. Hunting is a way for man to assert some kind of superiority or alpha male status over animals. You get to arm yourself with a gun - does any animal? How is that fair, even if an animal by its own natural disposition cannot use one. By wielding an arm, you are automatically putting yourself at a hugely unfair advantage to vulnerable animals.
So are a huge amount of other activities. Why does finding something 'demanding' and 'challenging' have to be so brutal and savage?
What if we said that about hunting humans? You wouldn't just be able to shoot a man in the head because you decide it will be quicker and less painful than letting nature takes its course. That's not your decision to make.
Even if it is quicker and less painful, why do you get to decide it's your right to take action? You don't know that it will be quicker and less painful and in fact hunting often leads to young animals traumatically seeing their parents hunted and killed. To see something like that isn't just traumatic for humans, it's traumatic for most other sentient animals too.
Ecologically, hunting can make a real mess of animal food chains as well. At least when it's done for the purpose of creating food, the hunting is done sustainably. Hunting for leisure has no regard for sustainability - only its self absorbed self.
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
For many this seems to be an activity of great contention, often emotionally charged and with individuals often displaying a great passion either for or against it.
I myself will state I am a hunter, I enjoy hunting immensely as a sport and as a hobby, I also support and have engaged in trophy hunting.
I started out hunting foul and small game with my father when I was younger, but as I grew older I moved on to progressively larger game and also started Bow Hunting , which I then made my primary form.
I have hunted in many countries in the world and stalked and taken game such as Deer, Elk, Proghorn, Moose, American Black Bear etc(tried Mountain Lion, but the things are tricky) , and even to Africa to hunt Oryx and Impala's.
For myself I enjoy the thrill of the hunt itself, the test of man against his environment in tracking the game to the skill of getting close enough for a clean kill and the joy of brining what can be a long and physically challenging task to fruition in one deeply satisfying moment.
However I have known many personally and over the internet who see it as a horrific act, tantamount to criminal murder and whos opinions of me are drastically changed due to my love of the sport.
This link is an educational video from the Scotish Highland management team BASC, dealing with Deer Stalking but more importantly the process of Culling, which is the primary reason most hunters hunt.
It contains some graphic scenes
So what do you think of Hunting TSR, thrilling bloodsport or Morally reprehensible, or is it somewhere in between?
Below are some pictures of myself from quite a few years ago now.
(This is a re-hash of a simmiler thread I made a few years ago, just to see how opinions have changed on the matter if at all and to revive what can often by a stimulating debate!)
I myself will state I am a hunter, I enjoy hunting immensely as a sport and as a hobby, I also support and have engaged in trophy hunting.
I started out hunting foul and small game with my father when I was younger, but as I grew older I moved on to progressively larger game and also started Bow Hunting , which I then made my primary form.
I have hunted in many countries in the world and stalked and taken game such as Deer, Elk, Proghorn, Moose, American Black Bear etc(tried Mountain Lion, but the things are tricky) , and even to Africa to hunt Oryx and Impala's.
For myself I enjoy the thrill of the hunt itself, the test of man against his environment in tracking the game to the skill of getting close enough for a clean kill and the joy of brining what can be a long and physically challenging task to fruition in one deeply satisfying moment.
However I have known many personally and over the internet who see it as a horrific act, tantamount to criminal murder and whos opinions of me are drastically changed due to my love of the sport.
This link is an educational video from the Scotish Highland management team BASC, dealing with Deer Stalking but more importantly the process of Culling, which is the primary reason most hunters hunt.
It contains some graphic scenes
So what do you think of Hunting TSR, thrilling bloodsport or Morally reprehensible, or is it somewhere in between?
Below are some pictures of myself from quite a few years ago now.
(This is a re-hash of a simmiler thread I made a few years ago, just to see how opinions have changed on the matter if at all and to revive what can often by a stimulating debate!)
Hunting for food = cool
Culling to protect environment = cool
Trophy hunting = not cool
hunting in the UK sucks.
its really expensive.
I am a fan of hunting for your own food.
In my opinion if you cannot kill an animal and eat it you should be vegetarian.
I think its irresponsible and disrespectful to the animal to try and forget where the meat came from by having it packaged as a literal piece of meat in a supermarket.
i think anyone with a basic grasp of eco systems can understand why culling animals like deer with no natural predators is necessary.
although trophy hunting I find a bit sick. its making a game out of killing a living thing.
like playing with your food. whilst i understand hunting with a bow and arrow is a challenge and a useful skill, it is for the most part causing unneeded suffering to the animal.
you are not hunting for any other reason than your own pleasure. its not for nature not for your next meal, not for your job as a game keeper. its for pleasure, and killing things for pleasure is sick in my opinion.
I've always thought posing with the corpse of the animal a bit bizarre. killing a large animal is not exactly an exhibit of stalking ability or good aim. the animals size only creates a challenge for putting it down. it will die fast if you use a large calibre or it will run away and die slowly if its not large enough.
Original post by DaveSmith99
Utterly revolting and anyone who gets pleasure from killing stuff could probably do with extensive psychiatric evaluation.
People who hunt do so because it is enjoyable. But that comes from the whole process - being outdoors in the countryside, looking for quarry species, hunting them down, getting within range, using stealth, taking the shot, etc. Often there's also the meat side of things as well.
But do they get any pleasure whatsoever from the "killing" part of the hunt? Absolutely not. That's a tiny part of the whole day.
Pleasure comes from the whole process and from success. A kill means success, and success is good. The kill is not what gives hunters pleasure and it is not what motivates them. This is a big misconception among animal rights activists who oppose all shooting/hunting. Some on here have mentioned "bloodlust" but this does not come into it anywhere.
Hunting is quite a tricky sport. Do you think that people who hunt are all mentally ill just out for their "kill fix" and the hunt is just something they have to endure in order to do that? Of course not.
My opinion of hunting/shooting is that it is a perfectly legitimate sport. In many cases it provides a healthy, free range and environmentally friendly meat. Often it is necessary for pest control - as with deer stalking and pigeon shooting in the UK.
I personally wouldn't shoot for sport if sport was the sole reason behind it - I'd only shoot for sport if there was another purpose like food or pest control. But most shooting in the UK is not done solely for sport - there is nearly always another purpose behind it as well. I don't oppose it unless, for example, it threatens endangered species.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Three Mile Sprint
In theory yes, however the issue is that everyone is different I have seen people get sporting hardons for Tennis.
Tennis bores me to tears, I enjoy a lot of Sports my second degree was in Sport's Science and I was on four Uni teams, but for me personally nothing has given me the same sense of overall enjoyment.
Tennis bores me to tears, I enjoy a lot of Sports my second degree was in Sport's Science and I was on four Uni teams, but for me personally nothing has given me the same sense of overall enjoyment.
Try more sports? Base jumping looks pretty cool imo. Personal satisfaction is a pretty weak reason to do something, I was just providing a counter to it. Tennis is alright imo but there are better sports, I simply don't believe that hunting is the only sport you do or could enjoy.
Quite simply, if there populations are leaft to expand without restriction they destroy the local vegetation and the whole ecosystem fails.
In an ideal natural envrioment, deer would have a natural predator which keeps the numbers in line, so the plants and foliage that the deer eat evolve and grow according to the grazing patterns of the deer, there is always enough plants to feed the deer, always enough deer to feed the predator.
If the deer are unchecked they eat the plants, if there aren't enough plants insect populations are hit, which effects the bird populations or the ..etc etc etc.
As I am sure you are aware(you are an intelligeny guy) ecosystems can be frightfully delicate, at the moment the UK is suffering from a deer epidemic, it is estimated we need to cull 18'000 deer a year on top of current culling numbers to maintain certain wilderness areas.
Thanks for calling me intelligent! I think culls could be handled more humanely and with similar or cheaper costs by neutering animals rather than killing them.
I would contest this issue, humane treatment in my eyes at least extends far beyond merely the moment of death in fact I consider the moment/s of death to be a lesser issue.
99%(and this is no exaggeration) of Meat on the shelves came from an animal that was born in captivity, raised in closed captivity in a 8x5 feet pen, many not even seeing the outside of there enclosed barn, never seeing the light of day. Force fed steroids and a concoction of drugs to increase growth and size beyond natural measures, and then upon reaching the ripe age of a year and half(in the case of cows) or six months in the case of chickens, picked up stunned and slaughtered.
Compare this to a deer or elk that is born in the wild, lives in the wild able to play with it's herd/social grouping enjoy freedom , allowed to naturally mate and reproduce and generally lives a between six to eight years before being killed in the open, free in a manner that is still Nine times out of ten quicker and and less painful than the death that could be provided by any other natural predator.
Hunting is more humane than factory farmed meat.
This might be true.... I'd need to think about it I guess. It certainly is not efficient though.
I think free range meat (normal free range, not hunting style free range) is probably fine to be honest. Animals are not going to suffer claustrophobia and I doubt wild life is so exciting that they'd find a free range farm monotonous, so the only major difference is being humanely killed with a bolt gun rather than shot at with a bow / crossbow / rifle. Factory farming methods are somewhat cruel and do need to be updated as well. Hunting cannot be modernised and is inherently cruel.
Do you have any studies to show that hunters have an increased chance or prevalence of mental health issues?
I do not. I would think it probably a fair hypothesis that those who regularly kill animals for sport may be less likely to view life as important and more inclined to sociopathy. I'll go have a look, but honestly, I don't expect to find a study that's been done.
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