What would happen if Palestine won their battle to be a state?
What would be the positive and negative impacts?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by KingBradly
What would be the positive and negative impacts?
The positive impact for Palestine would be that they would have greater access to trade and become wealthier.
The negative aspect is that they'd be able to fund an armed forces and would try and attack Israel.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by KingBradly
What would be the positive and negative impacts?
The specifics depend very heavily on the circumstances under which the state is established, but all scenarios conceivable at present turn out very badly for practically everyone involved.
Is there one scenario in particular that you're thinking of?
For the Palestinians, they would finally have freedom and self-determination. It would end the oppression and needless human suffering occurring as a result of Israel's barbaric policies.
For Israel, it would lead to strengthened security and would improve Israel as a whole as well - their culture has been stained by this occupation and annexation of Palestinian land. In fact, for humanity as a whole, a Palestinian state would be another step towards reducing how primitive some humans still are.
However, the UN already recognises Palestine as an observer state, and the majority of countries in the world recognise the Palestinian state, so the question is slightly misleading. Furthermore, Sweden officially recognises Palestine, while the British Parliament voted to recognise Palestine. More and more nations are coming to their senses.
For Israel, it would lead to strengthened security and would improve Israel as a whole as well - their culture has been stained by this occupation and annexation of Palestinian land. In fact, for humanity as a whole, a Palestinian state would be another step towards reducing how primitive some humans still are.
However, the UN already recognises Palestine as an observer state, and the majority of countries in the world recognise the Palestinian state, so the question is slightly misleading. Furthermore, Sweden officially recognises Palestine, while the British Parliament voted to recognise Palestine. More and more nations are coming to their senses.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by viddy9
For the Palestinians, they would finally have freedom and self-determination. It would end the oppression and needless human suffering occurring as a result of Israel's barbaric policies.
For Israel, it would lead to strengthened security and would improve Israel as a whole as well - their culture has been stained by this occupation and annexation of Palestinian land. In fact, for humanity as a whole, a Palestinian state would be another step towards reducing how primitive some humans still are.
However, the UN already recognises Palestine as an observer state, and the majority of countries in the world recognise the Palestinian state, so the question is slightly misleading. Furthermore, Sweden officially recognises Palestine, while the British Parliament voted to recognise Palestine. More and more nations are coming to their senses.
For Israel, it would lead to strengthened security and would improve Israel as a whole as well - their culture has been stained by this occupation and annexation of Palestinian land. In fact, for humanity as a whole, a Palestinian state would be another step towards reducing how primitive some humans still are.
However, the UN already recognises Palestine as an observer state, and the majority of countries in the world recognise the Palestinian state, so the question is slightly misleading. Furthermore, Sweden officially recognises Palestine, while the British Parliament voted to recognise Palestine. More and more nations are coming to their senses.
I simply cannot, in all honesty, see a positive outcome, for any of the people involved, in any realistic scenario in which a Palestinian state is established. Bearing in mind that there are many possible scenarios being proposed, ranging from the extreme of the full acceptance and implementation of all the Palestinian Authority's official demands for a final settlement, all the way down to an extremely minimalist position, I would be interested to know which scenario or scenarios you envision as producing a positive outcome.
(edited 9 years ago)
Let me tell you something brother.
Palestine and Israel, it's all bad brother. But the Free Palestine this that and the other brother, it's not good. It's not good because it's supporting a tyrannical regime brother whose only purpose brother is to kill Jews brother, obliterate Israel brother, and spread their narrow-minded, crap brother and slaughter all those who oppose brother.
I want freedom for the people of palestine, the hulkamaniacs in palestine who are out there saying their prayers, eating vitamins and being peaceful brother. Not the bad bomb men and killers of children, brother. I also want peace for Israel brother.
The two cultures are similar brother, they share values brother, they share a land brother, they should live together in peace ideally a joint state brother.
But the palestinians dont want that brother. They're violent brother.
Palestine and Israel, it's all bad brother. But the Free Palestine this that and the other brother, it's not good. It's not good because it's supporting a tyrannical regime brother whose only purpose brother is to kill Jews brother, obliterate Israel brother, and spread their narrow-minded, crap brother and slaughter all those who oppose brother.
I want freedom for the people of palestine, the hulkamaniacs in palestine who are out there saying their prayers, eating vitamins and being peaceful brother. Not the bad bomb men and killers of children, brother. I also want peace for Israel brother.
The two cultures are similar brother, they share values brother, they share a land brother, they should live together in peace ideally a joint state brother.
But the palestinians dont want that brother. They're violent brother.
Great thread!
I'll tell you what'll happen. We have history to guide us. When Israelis move out of the Western Bank, it'll be a repeat of the Gaza withdrawal. Rockets will continue to fly as the PA will not be able to stop or will deny responsibility for what other people do, like hatred-spewing imams or those who call for the liberation of all Palestine. The US and the EU like useful idiots may fund the PA to stop those groups, only for the funds to be siphoned in jihadist groups, as usual.
There's also a real chance that there will be struggle for control between the factions like in Gaza. The people who've been brought up to hate the Jew and believe that the Zionists stole their land (instead of buying parts of it legally and then defending themselves against the Arabs in successive wars) will not want to give up on the Right of Return. But such a right cannot be granted as it would swamp the Israeli state with Arabs and we know how well that would end... therefore it is possible that those who made the deal may be overthrown by an "Islamic revolution" of some kind. Then Israel has to move in again...
---
The optimist in me says that maybe, just maybe, Palestine will be able to evolve into a secular muslim nation like Lebanon. But I highly doubt it.
I'll tell you what'll happen. We have history to guide us. When Israelis move out of the Western Bank, it'll be a repeat of the Gaza withdrawal. Rockets will continue to fly as the PA will not be able to stop or will deny responsibility for what other people do, like hatred-spewing imams or those who call for the liberation of all Palestine. The US and the EU like useful idiots may fund the PA to stop those groups, only for the funds to be siphoned in jihadist groups, as usual.
There's also a real chance that there will be struggle for control between the factions like in Gaza. The people who've been brought up to hate the Jew and believe that the Zionists stole their land (instead of buying parts of it legally and then defending themselves against the Arabs in successive wars) will not want to give up on the Right of Return. But such a right cannot be granted as it would swamp the Israeli state with Arabs and we know how well that would end... therefore it is possible that those who made the deal may be overthrown by an "Islamic revolution" of some kind. Then Israel has to move in again...
---
The optimist in me says that maybe, just maybe, Palestine will be able to evolve into a secular muslim nation like Lebanon. But I highly doubt it.
Bombs. Bombs everywhere.
Well it looks like Israel are stocking up their armory. Washington has sanctioned 3000 smart bombs as part of military aid for protecting the jewish settlements.
Positive aspects: their own territory and an end to the Israel/Palestine conflict which has plagued the Middle East/Levantine region for so long. Iran also might settle down a bit also, and there would be less animosity between Israel and its neighbours.
Negative aspects: possibilities of terrorism platforming in the new state.
In any case, Israel would probably try to find an excuse to invade them.
Negative aspects: possibilities of terrorism platforming in the new state.
In any case, Israel would probably try to find an excuse to invade them.
Original post by Evening
Positive aspects: their own territory and an end to the Israel/Palestine conflict which has plagued the Middle East/Levantine region for so long. Iran also might settle down a bit also, and there would be less animosity between Israel and its neighbours.
Negative aspects: possibilities of terrorism platforming in the new state.
In any case, Israel would probably try to find an excuse to invade them.
Negative aspects: possibilities of terrorism platforming in the new state.
In any case, Israel would probably try to find an excuse to invade them.
Why on earth would Iran settle down? They despise Israel simply because it exists, not because of the Palestinians who are sunni anyway (allies of convenience).
Israel is mostly civil and wealthy, it will make far better use of the territory
Original post by viddy9
For the Palestinians, they would finally have freedom and self-determination. It would end the oppression and needless human suffering occurring as a result of Israel's barbaric policies.
For Israel, it would lead to strengthened security and would improve Israel as a whole as well - their culture has been stained by this occupation and annexation of Palestinian land. In fact, for humanity as a whole, a Palestinian state would be another step towards reducing how primitive some humans still are.
However, the UN already recognises Palestine as an observer state, and the majority of countries in the world recognise the Palestinian state, so the question is slightly misleading. Furthermore, Sweden officially recognises Palestine, while the British Parliament voted to recognise Palestine. More and more nations are coming to their senses.
For Israel, it would lead to strengthened security and would improve Israel as a whole as well - their culture has been stained by this occupation and annexation of Palestinian land. In fact, for humanity as a whole, a Palestinian state would be another step towards reducing how primitive some humans still are.
However, the UN already recognises Palestine as an observer state, and the majority of countries in the world recognise the Palestinian state, so the question is slightly misleading. Furthermore, Sweden officially recognises Palestine, while the British Parliament voted to recognise Palestine. More and more nations are coming to their senses.
You say all this, but does anything in the history and social geography of the Middle East lead you to belive that the average person would be better off living in a self-determined Palestine than an occupied territory? As it stands, a second-class citizen in Israel has more rights than any full citizen of Syria, Lebanon or Jordan. We hear that the West Bank and Gaza are such terrible places - yet thousands of people are desperate to go and live there.
A self-determined Palestine does nothing for Israel - Hamas are philosophically opposed to the existence of Israel - they want to destroy it and kill Jews. What fools would anyone be to believe that Hamas wouldn't have huge influence (if not control) of a "free" Palestine, and wouldn't simply continue bombing and rocketing? This is their best possible outcome as Israel has no reply that won't start a war.
As a Palestinian, what poses the greatest threat? Israel, or ISIS? You don't get to grumble and moan about ISIS. You don't get to protest against them, you don't get people in other countries to go on demonstrations and boycotts on your behalf against them. They just kill and kill and destroy. ISIS has killed probably ten times the number of Syrians and Iraqis than Israel has killed Palestinians. Would ISIS be allowed to come close to Israel (i.e. Occupied Territories)? Of course not, Israel would pull out all the stops to destroy them. I would suggest that Palestinians are safer and "more free" under Israeli occupation.
Original post by Rakas21
Why on earth would Iran settle down? They despise Israel simply because it exists, not because of the Palestinians who are sunni anyway (allies of convenience).
Israel is mostly civil and wealthy, it will make far better use of the territory
Israel is mostly civil and wealthy, it will make far better use of the territory
And I suppose Israel is happy that Palestine exists as well?
Original post by Clip
I would suggest that Palestinians are safer and "more free" under Israeli occupation.
Good lord you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Original post by ShotsFired-9941
Good lord you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Time will tell. Every other state in the region is an utter basketcase. Its not hard to imagine a Hamas-led Palestinian state that quickly degenerates into a state of violence and oppression with no-one to hang the blame on.
Have yet to see a single muslim dominated country that has excellent human rights record, low corruption and isn't a basket case of nepotism or essentially a failed state/despotism.
I have zero doubt that it would be only be a matter of 2-5 years before every part of a free-Palestine becomes just that.
In fact it won't be surprising me if after the existence of a Free Palestine state that there would be more palestinian refugees/immigrants in Israel as they would suddenly realize just how good it is there for them.
I have zero doubt that it would be only be a matter of 2-5 years before every part of a free-Palestine becomes just that.
In fact it won't be surprising me if after the existence of a Free Palestine state that there would be more palestinian refugees/immigrants in Israel as they would suddenly realize just how good it is there for them.
Original post by ShotsFired-9941
Good lord you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Israel is currently, by far, the most free state in the middle east.
Here is a step by step guide to what would happen
1) Israel is an absolutely tiny country, and the only liberal democracy in the middle east, surrounded by hostile territories who all want to destroy it, whether or not they acknowledge it.
2) Because of Israel's size, it is extremely difficult to defend. They need to have lightning fast reflexes to rocket attacks, known as the 'Iron Dome'. Essentially Israel just manages to shoot down most of the rockets that are continually fired at it because they have the second largest military budget in the world, behind the USA.
3) Palestinians want, and need very specific land belonging to Israel that will severely impact Israel's ability to defend itself due to the terrain of the region.
4) The Palestinian populations/refugees and their armed insurgents (terrorists) cannot be separated. The Israelis are currently leaning to the right in terms of their continual building of illegal settlements. Both sides are in the wrong and 100% untrustworthy of each other. Unless a genuine peace agreement with no resentment on either side is met between Israelis and Palestinians (which will never, ever happen) there is no way Israel can be sure that a new Palestinian state will keep to any peace agreements.
5) If a Palestinian state was somehow set up next to Israel there are two outcomes (considering these previous points). One - they will have peace since they both now have states and territory. This is highly unlikely. The much more likely scenario is that the Palestinians will jump at the chance to exploit the weakness in Israel's defences. With Israel weakened the other Arab states would close in and attempt to eradicate Israel.
6) If the Arab states succeed, Israel will be obliterated and there will be no western, liberal, democracies in the middle east. Extremist Islam / Isis / Terrorists would run rampant. The Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and defence forces would no longer exist (most people have no idea how much they do to protect the west against terrorism). The west would have to engage in further deadly conflicts indefinitely.
7) If the Arab states fail Israel would no longer be obligated to keep any sort of peace at all, and would in all likelihood obliterate all of its surrounding enemies until it is free of rocket attacks forever.
1) Israel is an absolutely tiny country, and the only liberal democracy in the middle east, surrounded by hostile territories who all want to destroy it, whether or not they acknowledge it.
2) Because of Israel's size, it is extremely difficult to defend. They need to have lightning fast reflexes to rocket attacks, known as the 'Iron Dome'. Essentially Israel just manages to shoot down most of the rockets that are continually fired at it because they have the second largest military budget in the world, behind the USA.
3) Palestinians want, and need very specific land belonging to Israel that will severely impact Israel's ability to defend itself due to the terrain of the region.
4) The Palestinian populations/refugees and their armed insurgents (terrorists) cannot be separated. The Israelis are currently leaning to the right in terms of their continual building of illegal settlements. Both sides are in the wrong and 100% untrustworthy of each other. Unless a genuine peace agreement with no resentment on either side is met between Israelis and Palestinians (which will never, ever happen) there is no way Israel can be sure that a new Palestinian state will keep to any peace agreements.
5) If a Palestinian state was somehow set up next to Israel there are two outcomes (considering these previous points). One - they will have peace since they both now have states and territory. This is highly unlikely. The much more likely scenario is that the Palestinians will jump at the chance to exploit the weakness in Israel's defences. With Israel weakened the other Arab states would close in and attempt to eradicate Israel.
6) If the Arab states succeed, Israel will be obliterated and there will be no western, liberal, democracies in the middle east. Extremist Islam / Isis / Terrorists would run rampant. The Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and defence forces would no longer exist (most people have no idea how much they do to protect the west against terrorism). The west would have to engage in further deadly conflicts indefinitely.
7) If the Arab states fail Israel would no longer be obligated to keep any sort of peace at all, and would in all likelihood obliterate all of its surrounding enemies until it is free of rocket attacks forever.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Clip
Time will tell. Every other state in the region is an utter basketcase. Its not hard to imagine a Hamas-led Palestinian state that quickly degenerates into a state of violence and oppression with no-one to hang the blame on.
Your view of thinking is honestly that of a 80 year old buzzard. You can't arrest someone on grounds of murder before he actually commits/plots the act.
Palestine has every bloody right in the world to be recognized as a state. They have lived under extreme aggression for far far too long.
Original post by james22
Israel is currently, by far, the most free state in the middle east.
You don't need to quote me if you want to sprout bull****.
Quick Reply
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
