Why shouldn't men have more reproductive rights?
Specifically, the right to give up all financial responsibility and thus potential parent hood of his child (unless the caregiver wishes to include him)?
Currently, a man has no real rights if someone is carrying his baby. He can be forced against his will to financially care for the child for 18+ years. The payments are often far too much and there are plenty of examples of the money not going towards the child...
We don't force women to raise their children (rightfully so), they can abort the child if they desire (rightfully so)- after it is born, they can give it up for adoption (rightfully so). But if the mother so desires, she can force via the law another human being against his will to give large sums of money to assist in raising a child he wishes to have nothing to do with.
In some countries/states (US) there are cases of men being forced to pay child support even when the child isn't even there's.
Sure, it's her body - but it's also HIS wallet.
That's my view. Might come across a bit bitter, I've seen too much of this stuff recently:
Currently, a man has no real rights if someone is carrying his baby. He can be forced against his will to financially care for the child for 18+ years. The payments are often far too much and there are plenty of examples of the money not going towards the child...
We don't force women to raise their children (rightfully so), they can abort the child if they desire (rightfully so)- after it is born, they can give it up for adoption (rightfully so). But if the mother so desires, she can force via the law another human being against his will to give large sums of money to assist in raising a child he wishes to have nothing to do with.
In some countries/states (US) there are cases of men being forced to pay child support even when the child isn't even there's.
Sure, it's her body - but it's also HIS wallet.
That's my view. Might come across a bit bitter, I've seen too much of this stuff recently:
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At the end of the day we're just walking wallets and a sperm bank
(edited 9 years ago)
Sure, it stands to reason. If one can decide to have nothing to do with the child after it's born, it should follow that the other can make that decision too. I dislike how men have few rights whatsoever concerning their children, whereas women are given almost total domination purely because they carry it in pregnancy. A child has two parents, after all. Rights should be equal.
Seriously it's not exactly hard to wear a condom if you're that worried about it.
If a woman has a child and the man cares for the baby then the women still has to pay child support you do realise? This isn't just a man's issue.
If you choose to have a child - which lets be honest is a choice, it's easy enough to avoid, then you should pay for that child.
Weird thing is the people who whinge about this are probably the same people that whinge about people being given benefits (that's where the money will come from otherwise).
The real gap in male reproductive rights is the lack of a male pill. Yet you never hear men complain about that for some reason? It woils solve all these problems by getting rid of any potential condom failiures and giving men complete control over whether they have kids.
If a woman has a child and the man cares for the baby then the women still has to pay child support you do realise? This isn't just a man's issue.
If you choose to have a child - which lets be honest is a choice, it's easy enough to avoid, then you should pay for that child.
Weird thing is the people who whinge about this are probably the same people that whinge about people being given benefits (that's where the money will come from otherwise).
The real gap in male reproductive rights is the lack of a male pill. Yet you never hear men complain about that for some reason? It woils solve all these problems by getting rid of any potential condom failiures and giving men complete control over whether they have kids.
(edited 9 years ago)
I do agree that there should be the option for the man not to pay child support.
In the meantime however, here's some ideas to get out of paying if some girl tries to extort money from you today:
1) Move abroad. The CSA will never be able to get the cash from you. Sure technically there's some court process they can go through, but it never gets done. A side benefit of this is a lot of countries have much better laws concerning this issue (for example in Thailand you don't pay any child support unless you were married to the girl, and I've never heard of anyone paying child support here in China either. I've got a kid with a Filipino girl that was proved by DNA evidence, but I've never paid her any child support).
2) Try getting a cash in hand job. Obviously the less money in the 'system' the better. Think of jobs like plumber, electrician etc.
3) Move all savings and investments out of the country. Sometimes you can be 'assessed' based on your assets not just your income.
4) Deny you're the father even if you know you are. When they eventually get around to forcing a DNA test, just don't pay the child support. It will then have to go to court. All of this takes time and so you buy some opportunity to plan for a future life outside the country when the judgment inevitably goes against you.
5) Consider founding your own company and becoming a contractor not a full time employee. There's obvious advantages in terms of the money paid will be to your 'company' not you, so it's harder for the CSA to get their hands on it.
In the meantime however, here's some ideas to get out of paying if some girl tries to extort money from you today:
1) Move abroad. The CSA will never be able to get the cash from you. Sure technically there's some court process they can go through, but it never gets done. A side benefit of this is a lot of countries have much better laws concerning this issue (for example in Thailand you don't pay any child support unless you were married to the girl, and I've never heard of anyone paying child support here in China either. I've got a kid with a Filipino girl that was proved by DNA evidence, but I've never paid her any child support).
2) Try getting a cash in hand job. Obviously the less money in the 'system' the better. Think of jobs like plumber, electrician etc.
3) Move all savings and investments out of the country. Sometimes you can be 'assessed' based on your assets not just your income.
4) Deny you're the father even if you know you are. When they eventually get around to forcing a DNA test, just don't pay the child support. It will then have to go to court. All of this takes time and so you buy some opportunity to plan for a future life outside the country when the judgment inevitably goes against you.
5) Consider founding your own company and becoming a contractor not a full time employee. There's obvious advantages in terms of the money paid will be to your 'company' not you, so it's harder for the CSA to get their hands on it.
Are you serious? Of course they should have to pay maintenance, if they didn't then as soon as a couple with a child splits (even if the guy has an affair) then the mother could struggle to provide for the child. If you are that serious then you should wear a condom and make sure she is on the pill or better still don't have sex in the first place!
Condoms ruin the feeling of sex, so forget about that!
Moving abroad solves 99% of problems concerning child support.
Moving abroad solves 99% of problems concerning child support.
Original post by emski
Are you serious? Of course they should have to pay maintenance, if they didn't then as soon as a couple with a child splits (even if the guy has an affair) then the mother could struggle to provide for the child. If you are that serious then you should wear a condom and make sure she is on the pill or better still don't have sex in the first place!
"better still don't have sex in the first place". This makes it sound worryingly like your attitude is that people should only ever have sex if their intention is to produce a child as a result of it.
The problem here isn't situations where a couple in a stable relationship split up after having a child, it's situations where it's two people who are not in a relationship.
What we have is an action that takes two people but a decision which is only made by a single person.
1) The woman gets pregnant and wants to keep the kid, the man doesn't want anything to do with the kid, but the woman can choose to keep it and then get him to pay to support it.
2) The woman gets pregnant but doesn't want the kid, the man does want the kid and would happily take the kid and support it himself, but the woman can still choose to have an abortion without having to even take into account the mans desire to raise the kid himself.
If a woman is irresponsible enough to get pregnant from a random shag then it should be her responsibility to raise the child by herself unless the man chooses to be a part of it.
If you're not able to raise a child by yourself then don't ****ing get pregnant.
Original post by voiceofreason234
Condoms ruin the feeling of sex, so forget about that!.
Yeah I always preferred no condom, it's like I'd lose feeling or whatever. Could've been using the wrong types though. My housemate had something put into her arm which makes her not have children, which is pretty good, because you don't have to worry about taking the pill. No idea if it ruins the menstrual cycle though.
Reproductive rights are not equal because this is an issue in which the physical demands and the 'skills' (for lack of a better word) of men and women are different.
Original post by mackemforever
If you're not able to raise a child by yourself then don't ****ing get anyone pregnant.
If you're not able to raise a child by yourself then don't ****ing get anyone pregnant.
equally applies
Original post by redferry
equally applies
I think the point he's making is that if both parents make a mistake, the man doesn't get to decide the fate of himself or the child, whereas the woman gets the right to make all the decisions.
I personally don't think it's very fair that if we both screw up (or she does), I get roped into anything she chooses, all against my will. I mean, I do acknowledge that as it is the woman who carries it for 9 months, therefore she shouldn't be made to bear the child if she doesn't wish to, but if she chooses to keep it, and the man doesn't want to, then she should assume responsibility from thereon.
Original post by redferry
Seriously it's not exactly hard to wear a condom if you're that worried about it.
If a woman has a child and the man cares for the baby then the women still has to pay child support you do realise? This isn't just a man's issue.
If a woman has a child and the man cares for the baby then the women still has to pay child support you do realise? This isn't just a man's issue.
I'd be inclined to agree with you if the courts handed out custodial rights equally.
The real gap in male reproductive rights is the lack of a male pill. Yet you never hear men complain about that for some reason? It woils solve all these problems by getting rid of any potential condom failiures and giving men complete control over whether they have kids.
Aw. Hell. No. Did you seriously just say that? Hey guys get a load of this, redferry thinks that men never ever ever ever complain about the lack of a male pill
We don't choose to wear condoms because it feels better, we're forced to wear them (assuming that the female in this situation isn't on any form of contraception) because the only other alternative is someone chopping away at parts of our balls with scissors.
Should a male reproductive pill be made readily available on the market I guarantee you that Durex would go into administration by the end of the week.
Original post by Drunk Punx
I'd be inclined to agree with you if the courts handed out custodial rights equally.
Aw. Hell. No. Did you seriously just say that? Hey guys get a load of this, redferry thinks that men never ever ever ever complain about the lack of a male pill
We don't choose to wear condoms because it feels better, we're forced to wear them (assuming that the female in this situation isn't on any form of contraception) because the only other alternative is someone chopping away at parts of our balls with scissors.
Should a male reproductive pill be made readily available on the market I guarantee you that Durex would go into administration by the end of the week.
Aw. Hell. No. Did you seriously just say that? Hey guys get a load of this, redferry thinks that men never ever ever ever complain about the lack of a male pill
We don't choose to wear condoms because it feels better, we're forced to wear them (assuming that the female in this situation isn't on any form of contraception) because the only other alternative is someone chopping away at parts of our balls with scissors.
Should a male reproductive pill be made readily available on the market I guarantee you that Durex would go into administration by the end of the week.
Not quite.
Oh come on, I have maybe seen one thread on here about the male pill and about 100+ moaning about having to pay for kids. If it's that bad just make sure you date someone with the implant/coil.
Original post by Dandaman1
I think the point he's making is that if both parents make a mistake, the man doesn't get to decide the fate of himself or the child, whereas the woman gets the right to make all the decisions.
I personally don't think it's very fair that if we both screw up (or she does), I get roped into anything she chooses, all against my will. I mean, I do acknowledge that as it is the woman who carries it for 9 months, therefore she shouldn't be made to bear the child if she doesn't wish to, but if she chooses to keep it, and the man doesn't want to, then she should assume responsibility from thereon.
I personally don't think it's very fair that if we both screw up (or she does), I get roped into anything she chooses, all against my will. I mean, I do acknowledge that as it is the woman who carries it for 9 months, therefore she shouldn't be made to bear the child if she doesn't wish to, but if she chooses to keep it, and the man doesn't want to, then she should assume responsibility from thereon.
I don't think it's very fair that a child should be made to suffer thanks to his dads dodgy life choices to be honest
Original post by SnooFnoo
Wears condom and get over it. Preventing pregnancy is actually quite easy.
Original post by redferry
I don't think it's very fair that a child should be made to suffer thanks to his dads dodgy life choices to be honest
Why is it 'dodgy'? There are many valid reasons a man (or woman) would not want to be a parent. Your bias is upsetting obvious.
You also talk about how to 'just wear a condom'? You do realize that condoms are only 99% effective in optimal lab conditions? And that actually they fail very very often. Likewise other birth-control can fail, and do often.
You also say things like 'If its that bad just date someone with birth-control'
Imagine if you had no reproductive rights and were forced to carry a child you didn't want, and the response was 'well if its that bad just date infertile men'.
What you are doing is victim-blaming.
Original post by Gott
If the man wears a condom or the woman claims she is on the pill then there is an agreement that the man has no responsibility financially for the baby as the woman can abort
What? If she gets pregnant, then yes the male still has a financial responsibility, and yes, the woman can get an abortion, but only under certain circumstances.
Original post by SamKeene
Why is it 'dodgy'? There are many valid reasons a man (or woman) would not want to be a parent. Your bias is upsetting obvious.
You also talk about how to 'just wear a condom'? You do realize that condoms are only 99% effective in optimal lab conditions? And that actually they fail very very often. Likewise other birth-control can fail, and do often.
You also say things like 'If its that bad just date someone with birth-control'
Imagine if you had no reproductive rights and were forced to carry a child you didn't want, and the response was 'well if its that bad just date infertile men'.
What you are doing is victim-blaming.
You also talk about how to 'just wear a condom'? You do realize that condoms are only 99% effective in optimal lab conditions? And that actually they fail very very often. Likewise other birth-control can fail, and do often.
You also say things like 'If its that bad just date someone with birth-control'
Imagine if you had no reproductive rights and were forced to carry a child you didn't want, and the response was 'well if its that bad just date infertile men'.
What you are doing is victim-blaming.
Majority of condom failure is due to human error. Or perhaps stock the MAP just incase? So women don't have to go through the embarrassment/annoyance of getting it themself. And it means you've taken the responsibility tk prevent a pregnancy should a condom break. My bf used to keep it in just incase when we just used condoms as I did like the responsibility being soley on me. He doesn't want a baby, he can help prevent it.
If a man can't handle the consequences and responsibilities of having a child, they should do everything in their power not to get anyone pregnant in the first place. If they do get someone pregnant, why on earth should they get to just skip off into the sunshine and leave the woman with the costly job of raising a child that's half the mans whether they like it or not.
However, I've heard of women spending child maintenance payments on themselves rather than their kid; that's obviously wrong and shouldn't be allowed to happen.
However, I've heard of women spending child maintenance payments on themselves rather than their kid; that's obviously wrong and shouldn't be allowed to happen.
(edited 9 years ago)
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