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Homosexuality - biological, or a choice?
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Original post by ScrewExams
I have nothing against Gay people themselves - live and let live. however I am a Muslim, and as one I cannot condone their actions as I deem them unnatural - essentially you are going against nature. but that's just my opinion. so where does homosexuality come from (talking non religiously) is it something people are born with, or are people brought up that way, or is it ultimately just a choice, and anyone can be gay?
All thoughts welcome
All thoughts welcome
Maybe they are going against your nature, or most people's nature for that matter, but they are not going against their nature.
Original post by Lalala917362
Ok, let me play devils advocate. We all know these are horrible crimes but if gay is biological.... Does that mean peadophilia and urge to commit rape is biological?
First of all, this question is a false dilemma, meaning that it is a logical fallacy. Why? Because the former assumes consent when the latter two do not. Therefore, since the principles are different, you simply cannot compare them.
To answer your question though, I believe paedophilia is also biological. Why would someone want to love a person much younger than them, when similarly they face legal penalties and societal condemnation? The key difference between homosexuality and paedophilia, however, is consent, as outlined above. In one case no one gets hurt, whilst in the other the young person may suffer severe psychological and bodily damage. So, because in the latter case one's urges, even if natural, hurt someone else, who is not able to consent, measures need to be taken to protect the potential victim.
Rape is completely different and I don't get why you mentioned it. It has nothing to do with sexuality, like the two above. It's simply based on manners and respect.
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Original post by rasclerhys
So what about people that masturbate, or use other females orifices to pleasure themselves?
I think you'd be hard pressed in today's society to say that people use their reproductive organs for reproduction, even if that was what they were originally 'naturally' intended for.
And also, what about homosexuality in animals? Animals which have brains incapable of what we might ontologically describe as conscious choice...
I think you'd be hard pressed in today's society to say that people use their reproductive organs for reproduction, even if that was what they were originally 'naturally' intended for.
And also, what about homosexuality in animals? Animals which have brains incapable of what we might ontologically describe as conscious choice...
what you are forgetting, is that when people masturbate, what do they think of that gets them aroused? male or females right? this is totally biological - a male cannot 'get off' to another male. the arousal bit of sex kinda represents design
Original post by ScrewExams
a male cannot 'get off' to another male.
DId you really mean to say that???
Original post by ScrewExams
what you are forgetting, is that when people masturbate, what do they think of that gets them aroused? male or females right? this is totally biological - a male cannot 'get off' to another male. the arousal bit of sex kinda represents design
Utter BS. Show me a picture of Zac Efron or Colton Haynes shirtless and id be hard as a rock
Original post by ScrewExams
Muslim - i believe that these materiel things must have bee created by a deity. imagine you are walking in a forest, and you find a chair. what would you think? -that somebody must have created the chair
The pagan gods made nature, nothing to do with Islam because nature existed before Islam.
Original post by *Stefan*
First of all, this question is a false dilemma, meaning that it is a logical fallacy. Why? Because the former assumes consent when the latter two do not. Therefore, since the principles are different, you simply cannot compare them.
To answer your question though, I believe paedophilia is also biological. Why would someone want to love a person much younger than them, when similarly they face legal penalties and societal condemnation? The key difference between homosexuality and paedophilia, however, is consent, as outlined above. In one case no one gets hurt, whilst in the other the young person may suffer severe psychological and bodily damage. So, because in the latter case one's urges, even if natural, hurt someone else, who is not able to consent, measures need to be taken to protect the potential victim.
Rape is completely different and I don't get why you mentioned it. It has nothing to do with sexuality, like the two above. It's simply based on manners and respect.
Posted from TSR Mobile
To answer your question though, I believe paedophilia is also biological. Why would someone want to love a person much younger than them, when similarly they face legal penalties and societal condemnation? The key difference between homosexuality and paedophilia, however, is consent, as outlined above. In one case no one gets hurt, whilst in the other the young person may suffer severe psychological and bodily damage. So, because in the latter case one's urges, even if natural, hurt someone else, who is not able to consent, measures need to be taken to protect the potential victim.
Rape is completely different and I don't get why you mentioned it. It has nothing to do with sexuality, like the two above. It's simply based on manners and respect.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Never thought about this kinda stuff so just wanted to see people's opinions. I think people who are actually going through this should answer I.e actually being gay not people thinking they know that they're talking about.
Btw, I know the ones I mention hurt someone else but I just was talking about the initial urges.
Original post by ScrewExams
what you are forgetting, is that when people masturbate, what do they think of that gets them aroused? male or females right? this is totally biological - a male cannot 'get off' to another male. the arousal bit of sex kinda represents design
Sorry isn't masturbating haram in Islam anyway? So why are you using a haram argument? Astragfirullah
Original post by rasclerhys
DId you really mean to say that???
acutally yeah i did.. i do psychology, and there have been studies where participants have taken PET scans during sexual activity. the results show that the 'pleasure' centres in the brain are being used when coming in to contact, or thinking about the opposite sex. however, this same study has been conducted with gay men, and similar results have occured, but with the same sex. so what i am saying is - these things have a bilogical root. i cannot get aroused looking at a man, or thinking about a man, but maybe gay men can?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Trypsin
Sorry isn't masturbating haram in Islam anyway? So why are you using a haram argument? Astragfirullah
Lol look at my original post - i specifically said 'from a non religious perspective'. someone mentioned masturbation, so i just went with it
Original post by Trypsin
Utter BS. Show me a picture of Zac Efron or Colton Haynes shirtless and id be hard as a rock
Maybe you are bisexual? i dont many males can vouch for you XD
Original post by Lalala917362
Never thought about this kinda stuff so just wanted to see people's opinions. I think people who are actually going through this should answer I.e actually being gay not people thinking they know that they're talking about.
Btw, I know the ones I mention hurt someone else but I just was talking about the initial urges.
Btw, I know the ones I mention hurt someone else but I just was talking about the initial urges.
It doesn't require specialist knowledge to know what's going on. Just look around. And it definitely doesn't require you to be gay to understand this.
I've answered the second part as well. I regard paedophilia as biological, like something instilled in one's brain. I don't see any reason why someone would go against the law and society if he could change his tastes (and this is where it is very different to rape: rape doesn't include tastes at all. It's just a means of getting pleasure on the pain of others).
Original post by Maker
The pagan gods made nature, nothing to do with Islam because nature existed before Islam.
no, but i believe god existed before nature... think if it like this - if you walk through a forest and see bird poop, you would know that birds exist in the forest. this is a similar occasion - the world is kinda like the creation of god (lol its not his excretion don't get me wrong)
Original post by ScrewExams
Maybe you are bisexual? i dont many males can vouch for you XD
No I'm about as straight as a roundabout. Every gay man who fancies Zac Efron or Colton Haynes can vouch for me
Homosexuality is not genetic.
" Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.
.
“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.
.
Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.
.
“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”
.
Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”"
.
Study the rest here: http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/03/08...s-not-genetic/
" Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.
.
“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.
.
Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.
.
“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”
.
Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”"
.
Study the rest here: http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/03/08...s-not-genetic/
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by *Stefan*
It is a 100% something people are born with (though environmental circumstances may affect how profound it is in my opinion).
Proof? Homosexual people who commit suicide because their parents and society at whole hate them. If it was a choice, don't you think such people would just turn straight?
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Proof? Homosexual people who commit suicide because their parents and society at whole hate them. If it was a choice, don't you think such people would just turn straight?
Posted from TSR Mobile
This, the idea that homosexuality could be a choice and that people would choose to be different and risk bullying, discrimination, disapproval from their parents and hatred is completely and utterly ludicrous and beyond ignorant, I have no idea how anyone could even entertain such an idea
Original post by ScrewExams
I deem them unnatural
What is in your mind natural?
Homosexuality is found in almost all species in the animal kingdom observed with some species all being lesbians despite not having the need to mate to reproduce whatsoever.
On the other hand, religions are unnatural.
To claim homosexuality is 'unnatural' suggests that you are either brain-washed by your church with no independent mind or you have trouble understanding the word 'natural'. Something is natural if it happens without human intervention, and by every definition homosexuality is natural.
Original post by ScrewExams
- essentially you are going against nature.
You're going against nature if you are attracted to members of the opposite sex but insist on having sex with members of the same sex (eg gay-for-pay actors), or if you are attracted to members of the same sex but insist on having sex with members of the opposite sex (eg ex-gays).
Original post by ScrewExams
but that's just my opinion.
No.
To say 'homosexuality is wrong' would be an 'opinion'. This is a fact, and you are wrong on that. Your 'opinion' is as much as the 'opinion' that the Earth revolves around the Sun.
Original post by ScrewExams
so where does homosexuality come from (talking non religiously) is it something people are born with,
There are evidence showing that there are genetic factors to homosexuality, although there could also be environmental factors.
Original post by ScrewExams
or are people brought up that way,
A very foolish suggestion.
The society is heteronormative, many communities are homophobic to the extent that they would kill anyone whom they deemed are gay, most gay people are brought up by straight couples.
In what circumstances could it be even possible that people were 'brought up' to be gay? Are you suggesting that you were actually gay but 'brought up' to be straight? In this case, your heterosexuality is utterly unnatural.
Original post by ScrewExams
or is it ultimately just a choice,
Sexuality is a spectrum so it is difficult to have a black and white answer to this that could be applied to everybody on Earth.
But the issue here is that this is such a silly suggestion: Gay people exist even in the most homophobic places where they are tortured, raped, and killed. Why would anyone make that 'choice' to be gay?
Original post by ScrewExams
and anyone can be gay?
Maybe you should try.
Original post by h3isenberg
Why would anyone choose to be gay and subject themselves to stigma...?
The going against nature statement is really paradoxical. Almost everything you do in a given day is going against nature.
The going against nature statement is really paradoxical. Almost everything you do in a given day is going against nature.
Except being gay is anything but going against nature to begin with. To 'turn straight' is to go against nature.
I don't understand how homophobes could even come up with that argument in the first place.
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