Feminist reaction to kesha contract trial shows why it's scary to be accused of rape.
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Original post by Gryffindorian
Like I said and will keep saying, people testify to loads of things that aren't true. Have you ever heard of unethical investigation methods? That's not the exact term but surely you've heard of it happening 
Her face was so red and eyes so baggy. She in 2011 was a bit of a nobody, a powerful music company and all their employees...vs Ke$ha, a new artist at the time. I emphasise new because her finances weren't there to fight them that it's true. She comes from a bad looking family as well. Who knows what issues she has and low intelligence. She could've been bribed to say that!
Her face was so red and eyes so baggy. She in 2011 was a bit of a nobody, a powerful music company and all their employees...vs Ke$ha, a new artist at the time. I emphasise new because her finances weren't there to fight them that it's true. She comes from a bad looking family as well. Who knows what issues she has and low intelligence. She could've been bribed to say that!
This is what you think is proof enough that there was some sort of unethical investigation lol is it really the courts fault if she looked rough lol.
All you are doing is making the Kesha camp look even worse with your could've happened, possibly happened allegations. You see the Kesha camp has no proof the Sony camp does and that's all that matters everything else is just rumour, hearsay and fairytales.
Original post by DiddyDec
The Lady Gaga incident is related to this one because it was Kesha's lawyer who made the allegation during the ongoing trial. Clearly he has a motive to try and push the Dr Luke is a rapist rhetoric to try I could only assume to make his client's case stronger.
Ke$ha's lawyer is also irrelevant. He's working with her; they're her claims, not his. Motives, motives; I don't know anyone who does things without motives. Their motives are also irrelevant. Because that's just opinionated accusations that their motives are manipulative. The possibility that a young woman, who was probably stupid and probably nonvirgin and probably desperate for fame, was sexually bribed by a powerful music exec is...so credible. Now it being date rape and not just a sexual favour by a drunk chick at a party, or drugged in private to make it easier, is a different story, if you want to go there. Is he denying sex or the rape?
Original post by Mancini
This is what you think is proof enough that there was some sort of unethical investigation lol is it really the courts fault if she looked rough lol.
All you are doing is making the Kesha camp look even worse with your could've happened, possibly happened allegations. You see the Kesha camp has no proof the Sony camp does and that's all that matters everything else is just rumour, hearsay and fairytales.
All you are doing is making the Kesha camp look even worse with your could've happened, possibly happened allegations. You see the Kesha camp has no proof the Sony camp does and that's all that matters everything else is just rumour, hearsay and fairytales.
How am I making them look worse?
I don't care about the Ke$ha camp; I'm concerned about the false rape accusation camp.
Original post by Gryffindorian
How am I making them look worse?
I don't care about the Ke$ha camp; I'm concerned about the false rape accusation camp.
I don't care about the Ke$ha camp; I'm concerned about the false rape accusation camp.
Because like they always have done so far all you keep bringing up are possibilities basically speculation. Courts of law need evidence even if circumstantial and none has been found here, it's hard to understand why some people cannot understand the concept of evidence.
Original post by Mancini
No Kesha does not need to go to extreme lengths all Kesha had to do was accept Sony's offer of working with another Sony record producer but clearly Kesha had another agenda and is making it harder for herself. It's a shame she is a talented girl but she' doing this to herself.
The only other option she may have is quitting her music all together and perhaps finding career she will still have to deal with Dr Luke's defamation lawsuit though and quite possibly a Sony Lawsuit for not fulfilling her contract.
I really hope Kesha does the right thing for herself and not fall for this illusion of feminist support, so far the only female I know gave her any financial support is Taylor Swift. It would be nice to hear a donation to Kesha from a big feminist organisation since these are the mouthpieces that are using her situation to step upon others and using others is what they do best.
The only other option she may have is quitting her music all together and perhaps finding career she will still have to deal with Dr Luke's defamation lawsuit though and quite possibly a Sony Lawsuit for not fulfilling her contract.
I really hope Kesha does the right thing for herself and not fall for this illusion of feminist support, so far the only female I know gave her any financial support is Taylor Swift. It would be nice to hear a donation to Kesha from a big feminist organisation since these are the mouthpieces that are using her situation to step upon others and using others is what they do best.
So she has a personal vendetta. So what? He supposedly raped her. He's lucky all she's doing is being bratty. That proves she isn't doing this for the record label; she's doing it because of the rape because she doesn't want to be with SONY at all. For whatever reason. Perhaps other members of SONY were involved? Who would go that far to say they were raped just to get out of a contract? Everything you can fill into the blank answer could be Ke$ha, but why does she have to be all those things you could think of?
Also if she so desperately wants out of SONY it would ONLY as a contracted musician be when there's an offer from an outside label, which would then hit headlines: "A Label fights with B Label over Ke$ha!" Is that happening? She just doesn't want to work with them.
Original post by Mancini
Because like they always have done so far all you keep bringing up are possibilities basically speculation. Courts of law need evidence even if circumstantial and none has been found here, it's hard to understand why some people cannot understand the concept of evidence.
I asked DiddyDec.
But okay. What possibilities am I bringing up that are lesser or worse than yours?
Your possibility is that she is lying. What do you say she is lying to gain?
There's no proof she was or wasn't raped, so of course everyone is going off possibility that she was or wasn't raped...
Original post by Gryffindorian
So she has a personal vendetta. So what? He supposedly raped her. He's lucky all she's doing is being bratty. That proves she isn't doing this for the record label; she's doing it because of the rape because she doesn't want to be with SONY at all. For whatever reason. Perhaps other members of SONY were involved? Who would go that far to say they were raped just to get out of a contract? Everything you can fill into the blank answer could be Ke$ha, but why does she have to be all those things you could think of?
Also if she so desperately wants out of SONY it would ONLY as a contracted musician be when there's an offer from an outside label, which would then hit headlines: "A Label fights with B Label over Ke$ha!" Is that happening? She just doesn't want to work with them.
Also if she so desperately wants out of SONY it would ONLY as a contracted musician be when there's an offer from an outside label, which would then hit headlines: "A Label fights with B Label over Ke$ha!" Is that happening? She just doesn't want to work with them.
Her breaking away from Sony is unlikely to ever happen these record deals are big business. If you believe in some conspiracy theories some singers have even been killed because of them so good luck with that.
I doubt any other label would even want her, I don't hear none calling.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Gryffindorian
I asked DiddyDec.
But okay. What possibilities am I bringing up that are lesser or worse than yours?
Your possibility is that she is lying. What do you say she is lying to gain?
There's no proof she was or wasn't raped, so of course everyone is going off possibility that she was or wasn't raped...
But okay. What possibilities am I bringing up that are lesser or worse than yours?
Your possibility is that she is lying. What do you say she is lying to gain?
There's no proof she was or wasn't raped, so of course everyone is going off possibility that she was or wasn't raped...
If it's true she simply wishes to break contract with Sony just quit the music life , you don't need to break a contract to do that. Just find that different path in life go find yourself, an end of contract is not needed. I am sure Sony music label will not stop her becoming a hippy if she chooses.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Mancini
Her breaking away from Sony is unlikely to ever happen these record deals are big business, if you believe in some conspiracy theories some singers have even been killed because of them so good luck with that.
I doubt any other label would even want her, I don't hear none calling.
I doubt any other label would even want her, I don't hear none calling.
Lol so now it's impossible when you asked me two minutes ago, "why doesn't she just walk away from SONY?"
I only mentioned the last part you put in bold to counter your argument that she has ulterior motives for feuding with SONY. Someone who wants to leave a label is for two reasons:
business reasons as in they career wise aren't doing what they need to be doing for the artist.
Or, personal reasons as in it's just impossible to work together.
If it's the former reason for Ke$ha and not the latter, she would only go to this length if she wants to get out of SONY, but without any security to go to another label?
If it's the latter she doesn't even care about anything except justice and justice would be reflected in letting her leave SONY.
So now that she's left SONY where does her career stand?
Why would she do that to herself if it's not for a very serious reason like rape?
Original post by Mancini
If it's true she simply wishes to break contract with Sony just quit the music life , you don't need to break a contract to do that. Just find that different path in life go find yourself, an end of contract is not needed. I am sure Sony music label will not stop her becoming a hippy if she chooses.
Original post by Gryffindorian
Lol so now it's impossible when you asked me two minutes ago, "why doesn't she just walk away from SONY?"
I only mentioned the last part you put in bold to counter your argument that she has ulterior motives for feuding with SONY. Someone who wants to leave a label is for two reasons:
business reasons as in they career wise aren't doing what they need to be doing for the artist.
Or, personal reasons as in it's just impossible to work together.
If it's the former reason for Ke$ha and not the latter, she would only go to this length if she wants to get out of SONY, but without any security to go to another label?
If it's the latter she doesn't even care about anything except justice and justice would be reflected in letting her leave SONY.
So now that she's left SONY where does her career stand?
Why would she do that to herself if it's not for a very serious reason like rape?
I only mentioned the last part you put in bold to counter your argument that she has ulterior motives for feuding with SONY. Someone who wants to leave a label is for two reasons:
business reasons as in they career wise aren't doing what they need to be doing for the artist.
Or, personal reasons as in it's just impossible to work together.
If it's the former reason for Ke$ha and not the latter, she would only go to this length if she wants to get out of SONY, but without any security to go to another label?
If it's the latter she doesn't even care about anything except justice and justice would be reflected in letting her leave SONY.
So now that she's left SONY where does her career stand?
Why would she do that to herself if it's not for a very serious reason like rape?
If Kesha wanted justice as you say she would have taken him to court for rape not to break a contract.
Original post by Gryffindorian
O.P. is basically defending the alleged perpetrator?
O.P. is basically defending the alleged perpetrator?
I think the OP is saying that it shouldn't be assumed that the person accused is a rapist without sufficient evidence. I think that the OP understands that he could have potentially raped her but he is innocent until proven guilty and he should not be treated like a rapist unless he is convicted by there being evidence.
(Maybe I'm wrong??)
(This is not necessarily my opinion, this is what I believe the OP's views to be.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by B_9710
I think the OP is saying that it shouldn't be assumed that the person accused is a rapist without sufficient evidence. I think that the OP understands that he could have potentially raped her but he is innocent until proven guilty and he should not be treated like a rapist unless he is convicted by there being evidence.
(Maybe I'm wrong??)
(This is not necessarily my opinion, this is what I believe the OP's views to be.
(Maybe I'm wrong??)
(This is not necessarily my opinion, this is what I believe the OP's views to be.
He's saying she's lying about being raped, because he clearly has an issue with women. I understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
Original post by Gryffindorian
He's saying she's lying about being raped, because he clearly has an issue with women. I understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
I don't think that he is saying that she is definitely lying. I think he is saying that it is hard to prove either way, so the person accused should not be treated as a rapist by default, all because he is accused.
I don't think you can just say the OP has a problem with women.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by B_9710
I don't think that he is saying that she is definitely lying. I th k he is saying that it is hard to prove either way.
I don't think you can just say he has a problem with women.
I don't think you can just say he has a problem with women.
I can read for myself and say what I feel he is thinking. No one can explain OP more than OP can explain himself, and he has done that, and I simply disagree with him. We don't need an interventionist.
And I've previewed his previous posts to have more to gauge him of than just his original thread post. He does have an issue with women.
Original post by Bornblue
The law is failing both male and female rape victims given that only 6% of cases lead to a conviction and 80% never reach trial. Thats before you consider that only around 15% of cases are reported in the first place.
I know you hate feminsim and what not but please don't fall into trphe trap of belittling rape.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I know you hate feminsim and what not but please don't fall into trphe trap of belittling rape.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Simply read the Guardian comments from first page to last; and remember this is the most left-wing identitarian newspaper in the country. You will see just how out there your own position is.
Rape is on par with other serious crimes, such as burglary, with 6% of reports leading to a conviction and about 50 or 60% of cases brought before the court leading to conviction.
We must look at what statistics you are seeing reported: you see the first a lot, rather less of the second.
Courtesy of "Moog" in the Guardian comments:
"...and only 5.7% end in convictions, no other crime’s as low as this..."
You know why Sarah? Because rape stats are treated differently to all other crimes (BBC's Ruth Alexander of More or Less dealt with this comprehensively a few years back). Rape % is number of convictions compared to cases reported. All other crimes % = convictions compared with number of cases brought to court. Of course, many reported cases of rape are not brought to court because lack of evidence/falsely reported/defendant withdraw/patriarchy/women not believed etc. Fill in your reasons according to your prejudices. If burglary was reported the same way, the conviction rate would be below 1% and that includes TICs (although they've stopped doing that now.)
if rape convictions were assessed and reported the same way as other crimes, the rate (in 2009) would be 46%!
The issue with rape stats is that NO ONE KNOWS. They vary hugely in all respects. Certainly a percentage are not reported. This is the same with all crimes. It seems very likely that with rape, the rate of non reporting could be high.
One key consideration is that it's assumed by many that all rapes are rapes. They deny that some will be malicious and/or false reports. NO ONE knows what this figure is. If someone tells you they do, ask for the sources. NO ONE knows. 2% is often quoted but that was plucked out of the air by Susan Brownmiller (probably her, no one seems to know for sure). Some studies put the % of fake claims as high as 40% but I'm certainly not going to defend them. There's a real problem here in that no one dares research false reporting because... well, you know why and if you don't, someone will be along shortly to tell you.
I'm aware that anyone who asks for decent stats surrounding rape (in an effort to understand the phenomena) is an unreconstructed, evil misogynist intent on controlling the bodies of yadda, yadda, yadda... So try this article in the Patriarchy's own in-house magazine, Slate. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/09/false_rape_accusations_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.html Also this:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/25/rape-myths-low-conviction-rate More or Less: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/more_or_less/8213670.stm
(edited 8 years ago)
Feminists think rape cases should be an automatic conviction and "innocent until proven guilty" should be thrown at the window.
That's why no one takes them seriously. You can't convict someone just because someone with a vagina said so.
And no, this isn't me saying "he didn't do nutin!!!". Who knows what really happened. I'm simply saying treating him like a rapist just because kesha said so is wrong in the eyes of the law. But no, we already have people starting up petitions, PR hungry Taylor Swift sending in donations and I'm sure this ordeal will start another rally.
That's why no one takes them seriously. You can't convict someone just because someone with a vagina said so.
And no, this isn't me saying "he didn't do nutin!!!". Who knows what really happened. I'm simply saying treating him like a rapist just because kesha said so is wrong in the eyes of the law. But no, we already have people starting up petitions, PR hungry Taylor Swift sending in donations and I'm sure this ordeal will start another rally.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Lawliettt
Feminists think rape cases should be an automatic conviction and "innocent until proven guilty" should be thrown at the window.
That's why no one takes them seriously. You can't convict someone just because someone with a vagina said so.
And no, this isn't me saying "he didn't do nutin!!!". Who knows what really happened. I'm simply saying treating him like a rapist just because kesha said so is wrong in the eyes of the law. But no, we already have people starting up petitions, PR hungry Taylor Swift sending in donations and I'm sure this ordeal will start another rally.
That's why no one takes them seriously. You can't convict someone just because someone with a vagina said so.
And no, this isn't me saying "he didn't do nutin!!!". Who knows what really happened. I'm simply saying treating him like a rapist just because kesha said so is wrong in the eyes of the law. But no, we already have people starting up petitions, PR hungry Taylor Swift sending in donations and I'm sure this ordeal will start another rally.
For the feminists this is another spectacle to use for their own agenda. They don't even really care about Kesha it's just about furthering their own rights over others even if those new rights they want are illogical, biased and discriminatory. It's like any event/incident these days involving a member of the female sex cannot just go through an investigation the feminists must stick their banner on it even if the said women doesn't want anything to do with the feminists.
The women doesn't even have a choice in the matter the feminists just think they are invited to use her issue or possible suffering for their own agenda. However , this is nothing new it is the true identity of feminists to behave in this manner, in the beginning they used the suffering of black american's during their civil rights, black american's being actual true victims of true prejudice and victimisation.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Gryffindorian
I can read for myself and say what I feel he is thinking. No one can explain OP more than OP can explain himself, and he has done that, and I simply disagree with him. We don't need an interventionist.
And I've previewed his previous posts to have more to gauge him of than just his original thread post. He does have an issue with women.
And I've previewed his previous posts to have more to gauge him of than just his original thread post. He does have an issue with women.
My posts within this thread are all logical and not in any way sexist or anti female. The reason you believe I have some issue with women is because you are a feminist. If anything I have written is sexist or in anyway hateful of the female sex, posters could easily report me but you won't be able to find such comments so good luck with that.
Hmm the only issue I have is that didn't Kesha say a few years back that she wasn't sexually assaulted by him under oath???
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