vaccine
do people think that universities will make the covid vaccine compulsory to live in halls?
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Don't know but you should get it if you haven't already 
Original post by Anonymous
do people think that universities will make the covid vaccine compulsory to live in halls?
I hope so (aside from those with medical reasons). You would hope that Universities understand / accept the science.
Anyone who doesn't get vaccinated, without a medical reason, should have their place cancelled, IMO. They're not going to learn anything at University if they won't accept the overwhelming scientific consensus. If you have a Nobel prize in Medicine, you can be excused ..
Original post by RogerOxon
I hope so (aside from those with medical reasons). You would hope that Universities understand / accept the science.
The science shows that being vaccinated does not stop you getting symptomatic Covid and thus being a spreader of the virus. Hence any university that is following the science and being rational knows that discriminating people by vaccine status is wrong and pointless.
RogerOxon
Anyone who doesn't get vaccinated, without a medical reason, should have their place cancelled, IMO. They're not going to learn anything at University if they won't accept the overwhelming scientific consensus. If you have a Nobel prize in Medicine, you can be excused ..
Totally awful post. No-one should be discriminated against for not being vaccinated. Those who have already had Covid and recovered are far safer people than the vaccinated imo. The vaccinated will just keep getting Covid and keep spreading it around. If you're going to discriminate against people with strong natural immunity that's akin to just barring black people. Just abhorrent.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
Totally awful post. No-one should be discriminated against for not being vaccinated. Those who have already had Covid and recovered are far safer people than the vaccinated imo. The vaccinated will just keep getting Covid and keep spreading it around. If you're going to discriminate against people with strong natural immunity that's akin to just barring black people. Just abhorrent.
Why not? People who dont get their jabs are a health hazard - just look at what happened when people stoppped getting their MMR jabs, for example. People might have the right not to get the jab but they dont have the right to complain about the costs of said decision. Comparing it to racism being rather odd as well.
Original post by Anonymous
do people think that universities will make the covid vaccine compulsory to live in halls?
I think the chances of this ever happening are so small, practically impossible. There will always be people who don’t want to/can’t receive a vaccination (for some reason or another).
Original post by Bumble18
Probably. I don’t agree with forcing it on people like that though, we should all have a choice.
But no one is being forced to take it? In any literal sense anyway.
Original post by Anonymous
do people think that universities will make the covid vaccine compulsory to live in halls?
My university is only doing in person lectures for those who are double vaccinated, it’s a Scottish uni tho
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
The science shows that being vaccinated does not stop you getting symptomatic Covid and thus being a spreader of the virus. Hence any university that is following the science and being rational knows that discriminating people by vaccine status is wrong and pointless.
You are attempting to mislead. Being vaccinated dramatically decreases your probability of being infected, being seriously ill, and of infecting others. The science clearly says that there will be far fewer deaths in those that are vaccinated.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
No-one should be discriminated against for not being vaccinated.
Yes, they should. They are, on average, more likely both to have COVID and to pass it on.
They also tie-up intensive care beds, that other, more responsible, patients may need.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
Those who have already had Covid and recovered are far safer people than the vaccinated imo.
What evidence is this opinion based on?
How many percent of the unvaccinated have already had COVID?
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
The vaccinated will just keep getting Covid and keep spreading it around. If you're going to discriminate against people with strong natural immunity that's akin to just barring black people. Just abhorrent.
Don't be ridiculous. The vaccinated are, on average, far less likely to catch COVID than the unvaccinated.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Bumble18
Probably. I don’t agree with forcing it on people like that though, we should all have a choice.
You do have a choice, but daft ones have consequences.
Forget COVID, people were refusing to get the Meningitis ACWY since way back and they didn't make that compulsory.
Yet I know someone who seized and fainted on their second week of uni and they managed to catch the bacteria early and treat it before it messed up their brain or something serious.
I think regardless of compulsion you should get not only the COVID vaccine but any other recommended vaccines and boosters. Uni halls are germ central, the hub of bacteria, it's like being back in nursery where the air is heavy with disease lol
Sorry to be harsh but...if people have the idea 'its not compulsory, i will not', you could be the next person having a fit on the ground in front of your new mates -.-
Yet I know someone who seized and fainted on their second week of uni and they managed to catch the bacteria early and treat it before it messed up their brain or something serious.
I think regardless of compulsion you should get not only the COVID vaccine but any other recommended vaccines and boosters. Uni halls are germ central, the hub of bacteria, it's like being back in nursery where the air is heavy with disease lol
Sorry to be harsh but...if people have the idea 'its not compulsory, i will not', you could be the next person having a fit on the ground in front of your new mates -.-
Original post by RogerOxon
The science clearly says that there will be far fewer deaths in those that are vaccinated.
No it doesn't. The recent data from Public Health England here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001354/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf
(Page 13, table 4)
shows that proportionately more fully vaccinated people are being hospitalised and are dying from the Delta variant than the unvaccinated.
In addition the article below quote more PHE data that shows that:
Official data reveals 67% of Covid-19 deaths since February 2021 have been people who were vaccinated
https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/08/25/official-data-reveals-67-of-covid-19-deaths-since-february-2021-have-been-people-who-were-vaccinated/
RogerOxon
Yes, they should. They are, on average, more likely both to have COVID and to pass it on.
Your use of the word "they" doesn't categorise the different sets of people in the population, you just tar them all with the same brush which is wrong.
The groups are :
1) Vaccinated - never had Covid
2) Vaccinated - Had Covid
3) Unvaccinated - never had Covid
4) Unvaccinated - Had Covid
Those in group 4 are patently imo the safest people in society. They've recovered from Covid and thus have strong and lasting natural immunity. Their chances of being re-infected are reduce by 91%.
Those in group 3 don't have any immunity to Covid unless they are part of the 20%-50% of people that had levels of immunity to Covid before it even appeared, gained from past bouts of colds, Flu and other Coronaviruses.
Those in Group 1, despite being vaccinated can and do still get symptomatic Covid and thus spread it around society. These people are a significant risk to others which is why vaccine passporting is a total nonsense.
RogerOxon
They also tie-up intensive care beds, that other, more responsible, patients may need.
Again you are generalising here. Those with natural immunity won't be the ones taking up hospital beds. It will be the vaccinated and those unvaccinated that have not had Covid.
RogerOxon
What evidence is this opinion based on? How many percent of the unvaccinated have already had COVID?
As far back as April 2021 professors from UCL told news papers that some 42% of the UK population had been exposed to the virus. That's about 28 million people. We are now 4-5months down the line from there so millions more will have had Covid.
RogerOxon
Don't be ridiculous. The vaccinated are, on average, far less likely to catch COVID than the unvaccinated.
Same incorrect generalisations again.
The vaccinated are NOT imo less likely to catch Covid than those unvaccinated who have already had it.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
Same incorrect generalisations again.
The vaccinated are NOT imo less likely to catch Covid than those unvaccinated who have already had it.
The vaccinated are NOT imo less likely to catch Covid than those unvaccinated who have already had it.
You’re absolutely right the vaccine definitely works but even still you can’t just mandate it for everyone wanting to attend college. Even if it’s selfish not to get vaccinated as it puts others at risk, people wanting to attend third level education shouldn’t have their bodily autonomy violated as it’s unconstitutional and unethical. Also by stopping people who are refusing to get vaccinated from attending further education you’re denying them the ability to get educated on the matter and understand the science. If vaccines are mandated for universities it’s likely that the anti-vaxx movement will only grow further
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
No it doesn't. The recent data from Public Health England here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001354/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf
(Page 13, table 4)
shows that proportionately more fully vaccinated people are being hospitalised and are dying from the Delta variant than the unvaccinated.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001354/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf
(Page 13, table 4)
shows that proportionately more fully vaccinated people are being hospitalised and are dying from the Delta variant than the unvaccinated.
You don't understand statistics. It doesn't show the percentage of people vaccinated, at the time of the study, in that table. Nor does it show the percentage of the unvaccinated that have already had COVID.
I suspect that you're latching-on to a higher proportion of the vaccinated, that have gone on to catch COVID, being hospitalised / dying. You have missed that the average age in that group will be significantly higher, and contain more frail people. We started vaccinating from the oldest down.
I stand by my assertions - for a given individual, you are less likely to catch COVID, have severe symptoms, be hospitalised, and die, if you are vaccinated.
Look at table 8 (page 39). This shows vaccine effectiveness against Alpha and Delta variants. After two doses, it's 89 and 79%, respectively, against sympromatic disease. Against hospitalisation, it's higher, at 93 and 96%.
In other words, after two doses of vaccine, an individual's probability of being hospitalised, with the Delta variant is 1/25th of that if they were unvaccinated.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
In addition the article below quote more PHE data that shows that:
Official data reveals 67% of Covid-19 deaths since February 2021 have been people who were vaccinated
https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/08/25/official-data-reveals-67-of-covid-19-deaths-since-february-2021-have-been-people-who-were-vaccinated/
Official data reveals 67% of Covid-19 deaths since February 2021 have been people who were vaccinated
https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/08/25/official-data-reveals-67-of-covid-19-deaths-since-february-2021-have-been-people-who-were-vaccinated/
And again, you don't understand. We vaccinated the vulnerable first - the ones that would have the worst outcome if they caught COVID. We've also vaccinated a lot of people.
Sorry, but I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post. There may be a point somewhere in there, but I've already seen that you simply don't understand, or are deliberately mis-representing, the statistics.
You should leave medical advice to medical experts. Their advice is clear - get vaccinated.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by RogerOxon
You don't understand statistics. It doesn't show the percentage of people vaccinated, at the time of the study, in that table. Nor does it show the percentage of the unvaccinated that have already had COVID.
I'm afraid this is just evasion and denial on your part.
The PHE data very clearly states :
A) The number of Covid cases in the fully vaccinated
B) The number of hospitalisations of the fully vaccinated in those cases
C) The number of deaths of the fully vaccinated in those cases
and gives the same 3 metrics for the unvaccinated.
This is thus simple basic maths
From A and B you can work out the proportion of hospitalisations for the vaccinated
From A and C you can work out the proportion of deaths for the vaccinated
You can do the same for the unvaccinated
What you find from that simple maths is that the fully vaccinated proportion is higher than the unvaccinated proportion on both counts, hospitalisations and deaths.
Everything else is just waffle.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
I'm afraid this is just evasion and denial on your part.
Nope. You simply don't understand the statistics.
Taking an extreme example, if you vaccinate only 90 year olds, and compare their outcomes, in the unlikely event that they contract symptomatic COVID, against those in unvaccinated 16 year olds, what would you expect to see?
You want to know vaccine effectiveness, yet decided to do your own processing of raw statistics, claiming to trust their source. In the same document, they give percentages for vaccine effectiveness, which I have already quoted. They're very high. Why are you ignoring those numbers, if you trust this source?
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
The science shows that being vaccinated does not stop you getting symptomatic Covid and thus being a spreader of the virus.
Stop misrepresenting the science. Vaccines are not expected to be 100% effective, nor do they need to be to get COVID under control. What stops that is people not getting vaccinated.
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are "only" ~95% effective at preventing infection of the (fully) vaccinated individual. They also reduce their probability of passing on the virus, should they become infected.
I don't believe that most uk unis with halls or private student accomodation providers will require any proof of vaccination for students to attend/move in.
However I do believe that up to date approved covid vaccinations will be an entrance requirement for some uk uni courses connected with medicine, nursing or healthcare.
Likely to be applicable to medical students, nurses and some healthcare students whose courses require visits to medical facilities or close interactions with vulnerable individuals within a care home setting.
However I do believe that up to date approved covid vaccinations will be an entrance requirement for some uk uni courses connected with medicine, nursing or healthcare.
Likely to be applicable to medical students, nurses and some healthcare students whose courses require visits to medical facilities or close interactions with vulnerable individuals within a care home setting.
Original post by Anonymous
do people think that universities will make the covid vaccine compulsory to live in halls?
I would hope so but I really don't think so - not in this country. People here don't use enough common sense regarding COVID for it to happen.
I personally think they should be required all over uni campuses. There's been a lot of discussion and suggestion about requiring 'passports' for entry to restaurants, clubs, theatres, and so on so I don't see how uni is different. Uni is another setting that people choose to be in, nobody's forcing you to be there. If you need a vaccine passport to enter crowded indoor spaces like cafes or clubs then the same logic should apply to halls - or god forbid crowded lecture theatres.
Either way, there's a good chance vaccines will be required for more things that effect uni life indirectly. For instance, you might not be able to go out to a restaurant or club with friends if you're not all vaccinated. So hopefully that might encourage students to get their jabs. Regardless, just get it. It's the best thing you can do whether it's required or not.
(edited 2 years ago)
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