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Anti-Semitism on the march in Europe again Watch

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    (Original post by SpikeyTeeth)
    I explained why anti-Jewishness / anti-Zionism is on the rise but my post got removed for offensiveness / trolling. No wonder its on the rise. We are forbidden to discuss the issues.
    Maybe make your point in a non-offensive way then.

    As you are the guy who posted on here about his Nazi memorabilia collection I am guessing that anti-Semitism is quite a big part of your life.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2744702
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    (Original post by TheAnusFiles)
    Classic fallacy right there; claim that Christianity is bad too. I am an atheist. All that does is build my argument against organised religion.

    Islam is misogynistic and homophobic so of course I hate it
    Right so you have a problem with organised religion and you agreed that antisemitism is wrong but went on to defend anti-Muslim bigotry. Classic failure to put forward a logically consistent argument right there.

    And you could argue that Christianity and Judaism are homophobic and misogynistic too but your need to single out Islam speaks volumes. I suppose you'll tell me how Islam is the worst of all religions and maybe even cut & paste a few lines from a frequented website.

    And for the record, I'm agnostic. I'm just not drowned in my own prejudiced viewpoints.
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    (Original post by iammeyouareyou)
    Right so you have a problem with organised religion and you agreed that antisemitism is wrong but went on to defend anti-Muslim bigotry. Classic failure to put forward a logically consistent argument right there.

    And you could argue that Christianity and Judaism are homophobic and misogynistic too but your need to single out Islam speaks volumes. I suppose you'll tell me how Islam is the worst of all religions and maybe even cut & paste a few lines from a frequented website.

    And for the record, I'm agnostic. I'm just not drowned in my own prejudiced viewpoints.
    1) I never defended bigotry against Muslims themselves. Just rejection of Islam as a religion. - Strawman

    2) I do think the other two are bad. The only difference is that if I criticise them, no non-Jews/Christians will attack me for it, which is why Islam is always discussed on TSR.

    3) "I suppose you'll tell me how Islam is the worst of all religions and maybe even cut & paste a few lines from a frequented website." - Hypothetical strawman

    4) "Classic failure to put forward a logically consistent argument right there." - ....No it isn't. I said that Christianity was bad too...

    5) "And for the record, I'm agnostic. I'm just not drowned in my own prejudiced viewpoints." - Ad hominem at the end, and an attempt to add weight to your views by the fact you are an agnostic which is of course a logical fallacy.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I think its worth making a couple of important points about antisemitism.
    1) Antisemitism has never gone away its just been less public
    2) Antisemitism has never been restricted to the far-right

    Finally, Jewish groups have been pointing out the problem of antisemitism in anti-Israel discourse for years. Not only were they ignored, but worse - they were told that their claims of antisemitism were illegitimate and somehow where just an attempt to "shut down debate" (as if Israel never gets discussed). No other group in recent years has been treated this way. Whenever any other group claims that it is experiencing racism it is treated seriously but when Jews did it they were dismissed as trying to deflect attention. We're all guilty of letting this happen by ignoring the warnings.



    All section of the pro-Palestinian supporters are tainted with antisemitism. At the AGM of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign a year or two ago they had to kick out a couple of people who were caught overtly denying the Holocaust. Many spoke out against the expulsion. All involved were White Middle-Class Britons.
    I think this is an overt case of reverse causation. I agree that antisemitism is on the rise in Europe and throughout the world but i completely disagree with the way you are looking at it. To start with, you are perpetuating the Israeli government's narrative of accusing pro-Palestinians, who are undoubtedly anti Israel of being antisemitic. Its is actually the other way round, a lot of antisemitism is being flared up throughout the world because of what is happening in Palestine. This is not so much a matter of Historical antisemitism "raring its ugly head again." In reality this is more like anti German and anti Japanese sentiments during world war 2. This is to say that People throughout the world are become antisemitic because they sympathize with Palestinians and are outraged by the lack of empathy from the majority of Israeli citizens and Jews throughout the world for Palestinians. The only way to curb this growing antisemitism is to improve the situation of Palestinians and to have more Jews in Israel and the world at large come out and speak against the actions of their government.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    I think this is an overt case of reverse causation. I agree that antisemitism is on the rise in Europe and throughout the world but i completely disagree with the way you are looking at it. To start with, you are perpetuating the Israeli government's narrative of accusing pro-Palestinians, who are undoubtedly anti Israel of being antisemitic. Its is actually the other way round, a lot of antisemitism is being flared up throughout the world because of what is happening in Palestine. This is not so much a matter of Historical antisemitism "raring its ugly head again." In reality this is more like anti German and anti Japanese sentiments during world war 2. This is to say that People throughout the world are become antisemitic because they sympathize with Palestinians and are outraged by the lack of empathy from the majority of Israeli citizens and Jews throughout the world for Palestinians. The only way to curb this growing antisemitism is to improve the situation of Palestinians and to have more Jews in Israel and the world at large come out and speak against the actions of their government.
    Yeah...no.

    You see what you're doing there is saying that it's the fault of the Jews that people hate Jews. And that if Jews want to stop people hating them then they must do X, Y or Z. It is morally equivalent to saying that girls wearing short skirts causes rape and that if they don't want to be raped they must wear longer skirts.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Yeah...no.

    You see what you're doing there is saying that it's the fault of the Jews that people hate Jews. And that if Jews want to stop people hating them then they must do X, Y or Z. It is morally equivalent to saying that girls wearing short skirts causes rape and that if they don't want to be raped they must wear longer skirts.
    I think at best thats oversimplifying the matter. what I am saying is that there are reasons antisemitism is on the rise and those must be adressed. I dont agree with people hating all Jews, its obviously wrong. But it is a natural reaction to feel contempt when you feel a person or a peoples are brutally oppressing another peoples. the world hates cruelty and those who commit cruel acts.
    With regards to your short skirts example,thats the anecdote. Girls wearing short skirts arent hurting anyone. What im saying is the moral equivalent of saying if you go around bullying and vitimising people who are clearly weaker than you and have no way of fighting back, then dont be surprised if the people watching you begin to resent you and your actions.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    I think at best thats oversimplifying the matter. what I am saying is that there are reasons antisemitism is on the rise and those must be adressed. I dont agree with people hating all Jews, its obviously wrong. But it is a natural reaction to feel contempt when you feel a person or a peoples are brutally oppressing another peoples. the world hates cruelty and those who commit cruel acts.
    With regards to your short skirts example,thats the anecdote. Girls wearing short skirts arent hurting anyone. What im saying is the moral equivalent of saying if you go around bullying and vitimising people who are clearly weaker than you and have no way of fighting back, then dont be surprised if the people watching you begin to resent you and your actions.
    It is certainly natural to hate people who are doing bad things. If you read your post again you'll notice that your entire justification rests on the conflation of those doing supposedly bad things with all Jews. This is wrong. This is antisemitism. And this is what must be addressed to stop antisemitism not the people doing bad things. That's not to say that antisemitism would not be reduced if there were no Jews doing bad things but the onus on stopping antisemitism is on not going from "hey that Jewish guy is doing something bad" to "all Jews are bad". And in your post that is precisely what you have done.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    It is certainly natural to hate people who are doing bad things. If you read your post again you'll notice that your entire justification rests on the conflation of those doing supposedly bad things with all Jews. This is wrong. This is antisemitism. And this is what must be addressed to stop antisemitism not the people doing bad things. That's not to say that antisemitism would not be reduced if there were no Jews doing bad things but the onus on stopping antisemitism is on not going from "hey that Jewish guy is doing something bad" to "all Jews are bad". And in your post that is precisely what you have done.
    Again no! It isn't what i have done, if you read my previous post you will see that i clearly say that it is not right to generalize the acts of some(or most) of the Jewish population as a justification of hating all Jews.
    I will restate that I do not believe it is right, but simply seek to explain why antisemitism is again on the rise. This is not to defend it! I think the problem here however is that you are unwilling to look at the matter objectively. I commend all Jewish people who come and speak against the actions of thier government in Palestine but also recognize that there are simply not enough of them and identify this as a reason for growing antisemitism without defending it. In a recent pole 80 percent of the Israeli population supported the current offensive in the Gaza strip(the one where 1300 palestinians have been killed and 250000 left without shelter) and more than half of non Israeli Jews held the same opinion. This is wrong! And it is hard to picture a scenario where the world's population does not develop a feeling of resentment towards Jews given that the overwhelming majority of Jews support such atrocities. Again this is not to justify racism, but it does explain it. If one's father is a murderer, and 4 out of 5 of his children support his murderous actions, then it is inevitable, though not right that the Family shall be judged and resented. In the same way, the family of adolf hitler living in america today decided to change their surname to avoid persecution by jews though they had done nothing wrong themselves.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    Again no! It isn't what i have done, if you read my previous post you will see that i clearly say that it is not right to generalize the acts of some(or most) of the Jewish population as a justification of hating all Jews.
    I will restate that I do not believe it is right, but simply seek to explain why antisemitism is again on the rise. This is not to defend it! I think the problem here however is that you are unwilling to look at the matter objectively. I commend all Jewish people who come and speak against the actions of thier government in Palestine but also recognize that there are simply not enough of them and identify this as a reason for growing antisemitism without defending it. In a recent pole 80 percent of the Israeli population supported the current offensive in the Gaza strip(the one where 1300 palestinians have been killed and 250000 left without shelter) and more than half of non Israeli Jews held the same opinion. This is wrong! And it is hard to picture a scenario where the world's population does not develop a feeling of resentment towards Jews given that the overwhelming majority of Jews support such atrocities. Again this is not to justify racism, but it does explain it. If one's father is a murderer, and 4 out of 5 of his children support his murderous actions, then it is inevitable, though not right that the Family shall be judged and resented. In the same way, the family of adolf hitler living in america today decided to change their surname to avoid persecution by jews though they had done nothing wrong themselves.
    Do you think it is justified to hate an individual Jew who is broadly supportive of Israel's current actions?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Do you think it is justified to hate an individual Jew who is broadly supportive of Israel's current actions?
    I think its inevitable that those who sympathize with the pain being suffered and endured by the Palestinians will resent Jews who support their government's atrocities and human rights violations is the west bank and Gaza. Yes!
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    I think its inevitable that those who sympathize with the pain being suffered and endured by the Palestinians will resent Jews who support their government's atrocities and human rights violations is the west bank and Gaza. Yes!
    You didn't actually answer my question. Not "is it inevitable" but "is it justified"?

    Assuming, from your answer and stance that you do think it is justified, do you think it is justified to hate those who support Hamas?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Do you think it is justified to hate an individual Jew who is broadly supportive of Israel's current actions?
    I also understand resentment towards Germans in WWII who lived in England but supported the Holocaust and I understand the hatred of white South Africans who supported Apartheid. I understand and empathise with those who feel hatred towards the supporters of any Crimes Against Humanities. Do you not?
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    I cant believe that this is happening..people still don't know the difference between Judaism and Zionism smh. Also the pro-Palestinians that are saying what Hitler did in the holocaust was great are retarded Lol he didn't like Muslims, Arabs, Black people etc. either..... btw Im not pro-Israel before I get attacked. What they're doing is disgusting. Lets just hope there's ceasefire soon that lasts forever.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    You didn't actually answer my question. Not "is it inevitable" but "is it justified"?

    Assuming, from your answer and stance that you do think it is justified, do you think it is justified to hate those who support Hamas?
    That isnt the same thing. Comparing Hamas' actions to the actions of Hamas is misunderstanding the situation in the middle east. Hamas is a Guerrilla Army and a resistance movement. They act out of desperation and are fighting back against the oppression of the IDF and the siege on Gaza and occupation of the West Bank. I dont think its justified to hate people who are desperately trying to end an illegal occupation. I also support resistance movements against apartheid in South Africa and against colonialist governments throughout the world(including the U.S.A), all of whom were at one point or another dismissed as terrorist organisations.
    Again you refuse to discuss the background he the current violence. You refuse to mention the situation of the Palestinians. Because of this you are bound to see the Israelis as the victims and the Palestinians(or Hamas) as the attackers. This is not the case, Hamas is the resistance movement trying desperately to defend the dignity of its people and of the Palestinian people and relieve the pain caused by the IDF, siege and occupation. This is a colonial war. We should all view it as such.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    I also understand resentment towards Germans in WWII who lived in England but supported the Holocaust and I understand the hatred of white South Africans who supported Apartheid. I understand and empathise with those who feel hatred towards the supporters of any Crimes Against Humanities. Do you not?
    So you hate Hamas and all their supporters in the pro-Palestine movement?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    So you hate Hamas and all their supporters in the pro-Palestine movement?
    That isnt the same thing. Comparing Hamas' actions to the actions of Hamas is misunderstanding the situation in the middle east. Hamas is a Guerrilla Army and a resistance movement. They act out of desperation and are fighting back against the oppression of the IDF and the siege on Gaza and occupation of the West Bank. I dont think its justified to hate people who are desperately trying to end an illegal occupation. I also support resistance movements against apartheid in South Africa and against colonialist governments throughout the world(including the U.S.A), all of whom were at one point or another dismissed as terrorist organisations.
    Again you refuse to discuss the background he the current violence. You refuse to mention the situation of the Palestinians. Because of this you are bound to see the Israelis as the victims and the Palestinians(or Hamas) as the attackers. This is not the case, Hamas is the resistance movement trying desperately to defend the dignity of its people and of the Palestinian people and relieve the pain caused by the IDF, siege and occupation. This is a colonial war. We should all view it as such.
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    That isnt the same thing. Comparing Hamas' actions to the actions of Hamas is misunderstanding the situation in the middle east. Hamas is a Guerrilla Army and a resistance movement. They act out of desperation and are fighting back against the oppression of the IDF and the siege on Gaza and occupation of the West Bank. I dont think its justified to hate people who are desperately trying to end an illegal occupation. I also support resistance movements against apartheid in South Africa and against colonialist governments throughout the world(including the U.S.A), all of whom were at one point or another dismissed as terrorist organisations.
    Again you refuse to discuss the background he the current violence. You refuse to mention the situation of the Palestinians. Because of this you are bound to see the Israelis as the victims and the Palestinians(or Hamas) as the attackers. This is not the case, Hamas is the resistance movement trying desperately to defend the dignity of its people and of the Palestinian people and relieve the pain caused by the IDF, siege and occupation. This is a colonial war. We should all view it as such.
    I think that almost everything you wrote here is not true. This is not a colonial war.

    Have you read the founding charter of Hamas that calls for the complete eradication of Israel and the murder of all Jews?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    I think that almost everything you wrote here is not true. This is not a colonial war.

    Have you read the founding charter of Hamas that calls for the complete eradication of Israel and the murder of all Jews?
    Yes.. and Saudi Arabia doesnt recognize Israel as a state. Iran always calls for the destruction of Israel. They are an occupied peoples and they are now in unity with the Palestinian Authority calling for talks with Israel.

    The occupation has been called Illegal by the UN, so haave the settlements. Attacks on UN schools and shelters are war crimes. Colonialism is the establishment, exploitation, maintenance, acquisition, and expansion of colonies in one territory by people from another territory. Is this not what is happening in the west bank?
    Why do you not want to talk about the background of this conflict. Do u not have any empathy for the circumstances of the Palestinian people?
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    (Original post by banker 132)
    Yes.. and Saudi Arabia doesnt recognize Israel as a state. Iran always calls for the destruction of Israel. They are an occupied peoples and they are now in unity with the Palestinian Authority calling for talks with Israel.

    The occupation has been called Illegal by the UN, so haave the settlements. Attacks on UN schools and shelters are war crimes. Colonialism is the establishment, exploitation, maintenance, acquisition, and expansion of colonies in one territory by people from another territory. Is this not what is happening in the west bank?
    Why do you not want to talk about the background of this conflict. Do u not have any empathy for the circumstances of the Palestinian people?
    Hamas are not fighting Israel because of the occupation of the West Bank. That is why.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Hamas are not fighting Israel because of the occupation of the West Bank. That is why.
    You keep talking about Hamas. What about the Palestinian Authority which still represents the Majority of Palestinians. It is becoming evident that you care little about the plight of the Palestinian people and are more obsessed with Hamas' founding charter and the narrative of the Israeli government.
    Do you see any wrong with the current state of affairs in the middle east on the part of the Isreali government. How do u justify the the Jewish settlements in the West Bank?
 
 
 
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