Do we need a British Islam? (BBC Big Questions)
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Original post by carlskep
When at least a third of young British Muslims believe that killing apostates is justifiable, it is hardly irrelevant. Deen's central point is about the ethical ideas in conflict with British values such as maintaining personal freedom and human rights in general.
Indeed.
Original post by HAnwar
No we don't.
Original post by mariachi
hmmm... and, why not ?
Because the way forward for modern society, in my view, isn't to encourage more belief in the superstitious. We need to stop pandering to religious individuals of all persuasions and move on.
Original post by Howard
Because the way forward for modern society, in my view, isn't to encourage more belief in the superstitious. We need to stop pandering to religious individuals of all persuasions and move on.
-Muslim fundamentalists, Salafi, literalists etc on one side ;
- those who would like to eliminate Islam from the UK altogether, on the other
although I deeply oppose Islam as a political and social theory, as a personal religion it is quite acceptable; so, while I would not encourage people to join it, in my view a moderate "British Islam" would be a positive development
this would not mean that people would not be free to criticise it, and to debate its "superstitions" or whatever else
Original post by mkap
the vast majority of british muslims have integrated fine in British society. its the extreme ones who go OTT and ruin things for us by giving us a dumb label.
Except the vast majority havn't intergrated well. The north is full of dense muslim communities. These communities only come about because they stick with their own. That isn't intergration at all. That's verging on segregation.
Original post by mkap
the vast majority of british muslims have integrated fine in British society. its the extreme ones who go OTT and ruin things for us by giving us a dumb label.
I think the problem is defining what is and isn't extreme. It's all relative really. I would regard people who consider homosexuality a punishable crime to be holding an extreme view, yet there are many vocal and active Muslim members on TSR who do hold such views, and they would disagree with me that it is an extreme view.
Original post by The Epicurean
I think the problem is defining what is and isn't extreme. It's all relative really. I would regard people who consider homosexuality a punishable crime to be holding an extreme view, yet there are many vocal and active Muslim members on TSR who do hold such views, and they would disagree with me that it is an extreme view.
Given that it's contrary to existing British law and public opinion, I don't think that the disagreements of people who hold such a view (who, let's be fair, aren't exactly going to surprise us by admitting that their worldview should have the pejorative 'extremist' attached to it) are of any importance.
Perhaps 'fringe' might be a better term -- more difficult to disagree on a technicality when opinion polls can be used to show that something is objectively on the fringes of public opinion.
I definitely think an elementary level of teaching in the Sharia/basic concepts of the Quran should be mandatory pre16.
Original post by yung Ob
Except the vast majority havn't intergrated well. The north is full of dense muslim communities. These communities only come about because they stick with their own. That isn't intergration at all. That's verging on segregation.
I agree. I personally think the Polish community is a good example of integration. Many have opened up shops and high-quality traditional restaurants which give Britain access to polish food and products, but the community themselves is directly identifiable or concentrated in any one area. Polish children are usually brought up with English as their first language (or at least as a dual first language). Generally speaking they have embraced English culture, while still remaining a few elements of home.
Define native?
Original post by mariachi
hmmm... and, why not ?
Because under no circumstances should Muslims compromise their religion to fit in with society.
Original post by HAnwar
Because under no circumstances should Muslims compromise their religion to fit in with society.
They already do, to some extent. And you can speak for yourself.
Original post by Hydeman
They already do, to some extent. And you can speak for yourself.
I know, it's quite sad.
Original post by al_94
What is British Islam? how can a religion be a nationality?
Islam has many different forms. The way the average Turk practices Islam is different from the way the average Saudi practices it. Islam always acclimatises to and absorbs parts of the local culture of the country it is practiced in. Look at Indonesian Islam and compare it to Moroccan Islam. Islam is always Islam but the Quran doesn't specify every aspect of one's life. It doesn't go into explicit detail on how women should dress for example, hence the differences with some Muslim countries wearing the burqa and others usually only the hijab. Plus there are different schools of Islamic law practiced in different parts of the Islamic world which interpret Sharia diferently.
Original post by HAnwar
Because under no circumstances should Muslims compromise their religion to fit in with society.
what a "British Islam" means, basically, is an Islam which would respect certain fundamental human rights and values which represent, so to say, "Britishness" (such as representative democracy, separation between religion and state, equality of treatment for all citizens regardless of race, gender, religion, basic freedoms of expression, abolition of physical punishments and torture etc etc),
are you convinced that subscribing to those values would mean, for a Muslim, to compromise his/her religion ?
In order to develop a "British Islam" it is not necessary to start eating pork, becoming sexually promiscuous, supporting gay marriage, taking off hijabs etc
it is however necessary to feel a certain loyalty to a State which is, in many ways, one of the most functional at world level, which provides for health, education, housing, unemployment benefits : and this loyalty is something that the State has a right to expect from its citizens
most Muslims in the UK, by the way -whether they realise it or not - have already developed a sort of "British Islam", which is quite different from the one you would find in Pakistan or in Algeria...
best
(edited 8 years ago)
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