How do British Muslim view their country?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
but isn't that what the democratic process is about? Seeking change according to our needs, beliefs and values? It may not be that of others nationwide, but then they seek theirs through their involvement in the democratic process.
If people don't believe that the system in place is benefitting society, then some may feel inclined to seek change (and this is what I'm asking in the thread).
If people don't believe that the system in place is benefitting society, then some may feel inclined to seek change (and this is what I'm asking in the thread).
The key word is democracy and Muslims make a tiny percentage of the population. That is why they will not be able to change Britain democratically as they would have to vote against the British native majority.
Original post by zalwanich
I probably would yeah, but that doesnt change the fact they dont give a **** about the country. just look at the % of muslims in the armed forces that might tell you something.
That doesn't just apply to muslims you know...
Original post by ShadowConspiracy
Yes you damn right it's unfair. If your country promotes it then only way forward would be to promote this country with it as well.
I wouldn't say so, With the rise in far right over Europe I'd say it's literally a process of waiting on the time to come.
I wouldn't say so, With the rise in far right over Europe I'd say it's literally a process of waiting on the time to come.
I know far-right brits are pinning thier hopes on wilders and the like, but I don't see that "success" translating in britain. The brits are different to germans, italians, french, dutch etc... different mentality. Its a shame that white far-right brits have to look to places like belgium and holland for hope.
The far right movement would have to take a firm footing in europe before it was ever implemented in britain.
Original post by ShadowConspiracy
Yes you damn right it's unfair. If your country promotes it then only way forward would be to promote this country with it as well.
why? the reason most muslims come over here is BECAUSE they have no freedoms in their own country. they don't approve of their countries policies any more than we do, and that is why they moved to britain. they come here because they admire our freedom, and you want to show them we are just as bad as the country they left?
what you are suggesting is just, well, petty. if you think we are better don't try and sink to their level. it just demeans us
Original post by lucaf
why? the reason most muslims come over here is BECAUSE they have no freedoms in their own country. they don't approve of their countries policies any more than we do, and that is why they moved to britain. they come here because they admire our freedom, and you want to show them we are just as bad as the country they left?
what you are suggesting is just, well, petty. if you think we are better don't try and sink to their level. it just demeans us
what you are suggesting is just, well, petty. if you think we are better don't try and sink to their level. it just demeans us
They do not enjoy freedom in their countries because of Islam.
Original post by zalwanich
I was going to join, very close to, then decided not to. And its not about what single people do, think about it more demographically.
Maybe they don't join the armed forces because the armed forces have a habit of invading muslim countries - and killing their people.
Original post by Beth123
Maybe they don't join the armed forces because the armed forces have a habit of invading muslim countries - and killing their people.
No, almost all Muslims killed in Iraq and Afghanistan are killed by other Muslims. The British do not target civilians and take every precaution not to cause collateral damage.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/8327447/90000-civilians-killed-in-Iraq-war-over-five-years.html
More than 90,000 civilians were killed in just five years during the war in Iraq with general lawlessness accounting for the largest proportion, a new analysis suggests.
Of those by far the biggest proportion - around a third of the total - was summary executions and kidnappings between rival factions and gangs
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Strathclyder
The key word is democracy and Muslims make a tiny percentage of the population. That is why they will not be able to change Britain democratically as they would have to vote against the British native majority.
Indeed and this is what I tell every white english man who tells me that the ethnically british are under attack from muslims! I'm glad a white scottish man agrees with me.... pass the message onto the white english!
From what we hear in the media, it is only a matter of a few decades before the white man will be a minority in parts of britain and america!
Proud to be British....
And no, I dont want "shariah" law for england....I believe I dont need extreme views of shariah law to practice my faith.
And something interesting to point out, the common expression used now is "if you dont like the british way, then move out" is actually very apt for muslims, especially in context of their history.
Firstly the Prophet was tortured for 22 years in the city of his birth, He couldn't practice his faith, so he moved.
If these "muslims", don't like it here, and feel they can't live here, in a country according to THEIR OPINION, contradicts their faith, (not all British muslims share their views) then they should move out. Follow the sunnah of the Prophet.....then everyone is happy
And no, I dont want "shariah" law for england....I believe I dont need extreme views of shariah law to practice my faith.
And something interesting to point out, the common expression used now is "if you dont like the british way, then move out" is actually very apt for muslims, especially in context of their history.
Firstly the Prophet was tortured for 22 years in the city of his birth, He couldn't practice his faith, so he moved.
If these "muslims", don't like it here, and feel they can't live here, in a country according to THEIR OPINION, contradicts their faith, (not all British muslims share their views) then they should move out. Follow the sunnah of the Prophet.....then everyone is happy
Obviously if someone feels like it's their country, as in they belong to that country they would try to change it in order to suit themselves better. Let's take for example something that you like doing, e.g. taking a bath, and the country banned it or didnt give you the right wouldnt you be cross and try to raise the issue becuase you feel it is the right of your country and government to care for it's people. The same goes here for those that are muslims. Imagine your room. You feel that you can change it to suit you better, would you change someone else's room to suit you better, I guess not.
I dont know what you are trying to get to but by this thread I am getting the message you dont think muslims should feel it is their country also and shouldnt feel like they belong in the UK. You only want christians to live here or maybe even only the white. What I dont understand is what gives you the right to feel that you belong to this country and voicing any problems you might have. Muslims make a big proportion of the UK and the UK should make them feel confortable.
I dont know what you are trying to get to but by this thread I am getting the message you dont think muslims should feel it is their country also and shouldnt feel like they belong in the UK. You only want christians to live here or maybe even only the white. What I dont understand is what gives you the right to feel that you belong to this country and voicing any problems you might have. Muslims make a big proportion of the UK and the UK should make them feel confortable.
Original post by zalwanich
I probably would yeah, but that doesnt change the fact they dont give a **** about the country. just look at the % of muslims in the armed forces that might tell you something.
Just look at the percentage of women in the armed forces compared to their distribution in the population.
It's about 14%
That doesn't mean that they don't care about the country.
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
Indeed and this is what I tell every white english man who tells me that the ethnically british are under attack from muslims! I'm glad a white scottish man agrees with me.... pass the message onto the white english!
From what we hear in the media, it is only a matter of a few decades before the white man will be a minority in parts of britain and america!
From what we hear in the media, it is only a matter of a few decades before the white man will be a minority in parts of britain and america!
Muslims are comitted to a collective ideology, what happens when they make up 30 or 40% of the populaiton.
This is why Islamic immigration must be severely reduced.
Original post by michaelhaych
Just look at the percentage of women in the armed forces compared to their distribution in the population.
It's about 14%
That doesn't mean that they don't care about the country.
It's about 14%
That doesn't mean that they don't care about the country.
No its because the women cannot fill the majority of positions in the armed forces. For instance women cannot fight on the frontline.
Original post by michaelhaych
Just look at the percentage of women in the armed forces compared to their distribution in the population.
It's about 14%
That doesn't mean that they don't care about the country.
It's about 14%
That doesn't mean that they don't care about the country.
thats because the armed forces is seen as particular masculin? you really cant compare the 2 sets of data
Original post by zalwanich
Actually its 2%, and yet they dont even make 0.1% of the armed forced population. This threat wasnt about being a good citizen, it was about how muslims view their country. and i would of thought, seeming as the armed forces purpose is to protect this country and our interests, that some would join up IF they viewed this country as their own.
I'd never join the army; be that the UK, the USA, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan etc... First of all, far too many wars are fought over on small disputes, far too many are fought for commodities, far too many are fought to keep certain people in power or out of power. There hasn't really been a real justification for war since WW2 and that's one of the few wars in the entire known history of mankind that is just in my eyes. I'd much rather go to jail than join the army
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
lol, yeah the question has been asked of him many times. The vid below at asks the same question of him at 5:05. Do you agree with his answer as a muslim?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiU-Vaq6PRg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiU-Vaq6PRg
Not loading here
Original post by lucaf
why? the reason most muslims come over here is BECAUSE they have no freedoms in their own country
And this is Britain's problem because? Why not sort this out with your own governments instead of taking the easy option and living in the UK.
Original post by lucaf
. they don't approve of their countries policies any more than we do, and that is why they moved to britain. they come here because they admire our freedom, and you want to show them we are just as bad as the country they left?
. they don't approve of their countries policies any more than we do, and that is why they moved to britain. they come here because they admire our freedom, and you want to show them we are just as bad as the country they left?
Yes, If I can't go to a Muslim country and do as I please then there's no way it should be happening here.
Original post by MonkeyMan2009
I know far-right brits are pinning thier hopes on wilders and the like, but I don't see that "success" translating in britain.
Like I said, With the sudden rise it's only a matter of time, And as for Wilders I fully support his movement.
Original post by lucaf
The brits are different to germans, italians, french, dutch etc... different mentality. Its a shame that white far-right brits have to look to places like belgium and holland for hope.
The brits are different to germans, italians, french, dutch etc... different mentality. Its a shame that white far-right brits have to look to places like belgium and holland for hope.
Because speak out against anything here and your labelled a 'Nazi Racizzttt scumz 11111111111111111' And instantly labelled to support everything right wing.
Original post by lucaf
The far right movement would have to take a firm footing in europe before it was ever implemented in britain.
The far right movement would have to take a firm footing in europe before it was ever implemented in britain.
Like I said, Time.
Do you view britain as your country? If yes, do you believe it is acceptable for you as a citizen to seek change in british society (to suit your values and beliefs) through government policy and the democratic system?
Yes i view Britain as my country..
With regards to the 2nd part of the question, my religion would come before my country. However living in Britain now..there is nothing to prevent me from following my beliefs..I can pray freely..wear a headscarf without feeling out of place or intimidated..so its all good
However..it depends on what kind of belief it is..if it affected just the majority of muslims in a postive way..and had no effect on the rest of the people..then yes I would try get my views across.
I would also at the same time take into consideration the views of people from people who are non muslims..
But if it was a major change or something really big preventing me from practising my religion that would affect muslims as well as non muslims..then i guess something would hve to be done about it..I would suggest voting..but the number of non muslims outnumbers the number of muslims and therefore the votes would be unfair etc etc
A common assertion is that muslims who want something different to what british society offers should seek to live in a muslim country. Do you believe this is right or do you believe it is your right to seek something different in british society (as long as it doesn’t infringe on the social life of non-muslims)?
No i dont think it is right, if I was born here..I have a right to stay here and to an extent I can demonstrate and express my opinions..
Again it depends on what the muslims want that is different to what Britain offer. If it is something big which most of the british people disapprove of..and you reallyy want that implemented in your life..then yeah move to muslim country..however noone is forcing them to go..it would be their choice whether they would go or not.
You have to take into consideration everyones views in order to make a change to the country..
I also think that you should demonstrate (peacefully) if you want something that doesnt have an effect on non muslims or their social life. You should get your views across, freedom of speech and freedom of beliefs..but you should not demand it as Britain is a multicultural society and it should not revolve around just one or 2 religions/groups etc.
Hope these are better answers to your question OP.
Yes i view Britain as my country..
With regards to the 2nd part of the question, my religion would come before my country. However living in Britain now..there is nothing to prevent me from following my beliefs..I can pray freely..wear a headscarf without feeling out of place or intimidated..so its all good
However..it depends on what kind of belief it is..if it affected just the majority of muslims in a postive way..and had no effect on the rest of the people..then yes I would try get my views across.
I would also at the same time take into consideration the views of people from people who are non muslims..
But if it was a major change or something really big preventing me from practising my religion that would affect muslims as well as non muslims..then i guess something would hve to be done about it..I would suggest voting..but the number of non muslims outnumbers the number of muslims and therefore the votes would be unfair etc etc
A common assertion is that muslims who want something different to what british society offers should seek to live in a muslim country. Do you believe this is right or do you believe it is your right to seek something different in british society (as long as it doesn’t infringe on the social life of non-muslims)?
No i dont think it is right, if I was born here..I have a right to stay here and to an extent I can demonstrate and express my opinions..
Again it depends on what the muslims want that is different to what Britain offer. If it is something big which most of the british people disapprove of..and you reallyy want that implemented in your life..then yeah move to muslim country..however noone is forcing them to go..it would be their choice whether they would go or not.
You have to take into consideration everyones views in order to make a change to the country..
I also think that you should demonstrate (peacefully) if you want something that doesnt have an effect on non muslims or their social life. You should get your views across, freedom of speech and freedom of beliefs..but you should not demand it as Britain is a multicultural society and it should not revolve around just one or 2 religions/groups etc.
Hope these are better answers to your question OP.
Original post by Strathclyder
They do not enjoy freedom in their countries because of Islam.
well yeah. thats what happens when you live in a religious theocracy. a country run by fundamentalist jews or christians would be pretty crappy too
and that just supports my point really. they moved to a secular country so they could have freedom and practice their religion in moderately, just like all the other religions do over here. well at least, most of them do. there are idiotic exceptions to every rule
Original post by MathematicsKiller
I think that the fact that muslims usually place religion above country
Absolutely. Nationalism is totally alien to Islam. Islam transcends national boundaries, and Muslims owe their allegiances to the worldwide Muslim ummah, the community of believers. I think this is one reason why Muslims are so damn hard to assimilate. Even when they appear visibly assimilated, they can still connect with Muslims halfway across the globe over issues which would otherwise have nothing to do with them if they were not Muslims. Take the Palestine-Israel conflict as a case in point. Almost every Muslim I know feels strongly about the Palestinian 'plight' and are massively anti-Israel (bordering outright anti-Semitic) - and the 7/7 bombers alluded to such phony grievances as our government's support for wars in Muslim countries. I'm not sure if it is possible for Muslims to feel a genuine sense of allegiance to Britain or any other Western country, ESPECIALLY when our national identity is a watered down multicultural mush which doesn't even demand integration.
Britain is only 'their' country insofar as it offers them better economic opportunities and a chance for a better life, and to many immigrants means a big fat welfare cheque. But culturally, historically, religiously and even politically, this country has nothing to do with them. Which is why the whole multicultural experiment was incredibly retarded from the start.
(edited 12 years ago)
Britain has given my father a job, my family safety from various groups and me a chance to greatly further my education as well as those of my younger siblings. I'am extremely grateful for that and realise that despite some flabbergasting flaws such as the Benefits system, the process overall works quite well. If there was a World War (or something) and I was called up, I'd fight for Britain.
BUT I grew up in Pakistan as an extremely patriotic Pakistan who absolutely adored his country and wanted to join its army from a very young age. I have and probably will always consider myself more Pakistani than British. This is something I can't help- I'am more patriotic towards my homeland, enjoy the music and the cuisine more and when I go back, it feels like home to me. This has nothing to do with religion by the way.
An honest response.
BUT I grew up in Pakistan as an extremely patriotic Pakistan who absolutely adored his country and wanted to join its army from a very young age. I have and probably will always consider myself more Pakistani than British. This is something I can't help- I'am more patriotic towards my homeland, enjoy the music and the cuisine more and when I go back, it feels like home to me. This has nothing to do with religion by the way.
An honest response.
Quick Reply
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?