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Although it is impossible to tell with certainty, the consensus is that it doesnt. At least as far as regulated stunning practices go.

You are telling me that if I stunned you with a captive bolt, you would feel nothing?

Except that it's been shown that the animal is in serious pain and is very much conscious as it's bleeding to death. While the thrashing may still happen if the animal is stunned, the conscious pain does not.

Shown how?

Electric residue? Seriously?

I don't know if it was specifically "electrical residue" but I was reading something yesterday which stated that the stunning method using electricity (waterbath stunning) may in some cases contaminate the meat thus making it extremely dangerous.

Reply 121

sugarmouse

11

Original post by sophmay

To begin I would like to state that slaugher houses to employ vets to ensure the animals are healthy and I'm sure if something awful happened within a slaughter house that the vet would be on hand.

All slaughterhouses must use the stunning method unless the animals are for halal or kosher foods.

It can take cattle up to 2 minutes to die using this method and will cause stress to the animal before it loses consciousness

This is not the case. Captive bolt is used to stun cattle but gas and electrical stunning are used for poultry, electrical stunning is also used for sheep and pigs. Only once they are stunned are they are bled. It is not the bolt of the stunning that kills them. The animal is not "cut up" until it has been hung up. By this time I think that someone would have realised the animal was still alive.

This is not the case with free range and organic animals. Also cows and sheep are generally kept outdoors and given the freedom to roam and do as they please. I whole heartedly disagree with battery farming.

Captive bolt is only used for cattle and for stunning not slaughter. However yes this is true; but legislation requires that animals are confined to a stunning pen or have their heads securely restrained in order to carry out effective stunning. 5-10% of animals may not be successful stunned and of course I do not think this is acceptable and something needs to be done to make the job of the slaughtermen easier to produce better stunning results.

Animals are not cut up while they are still alive; however some may accidentally be slaughtered while still conscious. I don't think you can really say this is what happens in UK slaughter. It is difficult to get the facts on this matter as so many animal rights groups will take a small number examples and make out that ALL slaughterhouses are like this. It's counter productive to meat quality as stress hormones released in the body make the meat taste bitter and unappealing.

I am a vegetarian and hold animal rights views myself so I don't feel that animals should be slaughtered for food in the first place. But since this isn't going to stop we should ensure their welfare as much as possible and to do so people need to facts of the current situation rather than the bias writings of animal extremists.

Point 1-I cannot see that a slaughterhouse is about animal welfare in any way. They're focused on food production . A vet is present yes, to ensure that the animals are disease free and unlikely to cause any harm to humans that consume them.
2)This is true in terms of legality, I am sceptical on whether it is a method that is proven, particularly the electric bath method has been proved as faulty when it comes to ensuring an animal is dead first.Gas methods also, do not ensure immidiate unconciousness.

I do disagree with the Muslim methods of killing, however I cannot argue that they are any worse than the uk methods if looking at the whole picture.
I've also been inside many slaughterhouses, far too many and I had to resign myself to never doing it again due to realising my own mental health was suffering. People in these places, really, really do not care if the animal is still alive or not.

I think you may like to do some more research regards what free range means though, if you're a vegetarian for animal rights reasons (or partly for those reasons).
Free range is VERY misleading. The legislation for free range centres around very sketchy lines such as 'Must have access to the outside'. This could mean that chickens are in a room squashed in with hundreds of other birds, but there's an opening in the room at one end-so that if they ever manage to get to it, they can potentially get outside. Free range birds are still debeaked with no anaesthetic.
For cows and pigs, the same-all it means is 'access to the outside' not that they're kept outside or have room to roam

I am aware stunning is generally not the method of slaughter. By 'cut up' I didn't mean hacked to pieces, more that they were subject to being slaughtered and then the usual methods of meat production continues

I have been an activist most of my life, but I am more a 'slacktivist' now, as much of what I did, I was too emotionally connected to to be able to function in other areas of life.
Edited to add, I've done what I didn't intend to do here and discussed things that are far removed from the original thread subject-apologies!I'll continue elsewhere if there's another thread.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 122

username1112369

By law those who carry out slaughter must have a licence and adhere to the law; for the licence training would be required and most likely follow up training and checks.

The electric bath method does have it's problems I agree; however gas methods, in my opinion, are much more sound. It does not cause immediate unconsciousness because some methods require different stages of gas concentration and some use different ratios of gas. However it is most likely less stressful because the birds just breath it in and fall unconscious. There is little chance that the birds could remain conscious in the types of controlled atmospheres that are used. When it comes to chickens though it's a bit of a different ball game. Purely because of even just the shackling of the chickens, before its even been made unconscious. It causes immense pain and stress (all nociceptors have been known to react during this time). Workers in slaughter houses view this as the worst job and it's often done on rotation because they find it distressing themselves.

Some workers may not care about the welfare personally, but if their job depends on it they have to adhere to the rules.

I'm aware of the health implications of free range on animals; hence why all I said was I was adverse to battery farming. And yes I am also aware of the legislative conditions of free range; I am doing a masters in animal welfare, law and ethics at the moment. And thesis is on the very topic of this thread actually :smile:

(Not the slaughter argument, but the adulteration of food).

All birds are debeaked using no anaesthetic; not just free range. And it is done when they are very young using a hot blade or infra-red. When performed correctly this should have no adverse effect on the bird.

I also find I am quite emotionally involved in all areas of animal welfare; I've decided that it's not a bad thing as long as I can keep a cool head, see things from other people's point of view and keep remembering that I am dedicating my life to trying to make a difference.