Why should animals die for us?
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With the current technology testing drugs using simulations just can't be anywhere near as reliable as testing drugs using real live organisms. Not even cell or tissue cultures can give reliable results. We can't study the long term effects of a drug using simulations. We can't study the effect a drug will have on other organs in your body when using cultures, eg if you test a drug on heart tissue only you won't be able to tell that, when given to a patient, it may cause kidney failure.
When it comes to criminals, there's also many issues involved. Firstly of course is the ethics of human experimenting, criminal or not they remain human. Also many experiments on animals involve inbred mice/rats etc so that they are genetically as close to each other as possible so that the effects of any drug can be better understood (eg if two genetically similar mice react to the same drug in different ways, studies of how external stimuli/environmental conditions affect the working of the drug can be done). Other animals are used that have short life cycles so the genetics of new generations can be studied. Whether or not a drug has any effect on a developing foetus also can be studied using animals. None of these can be studied using criminals.
More animals are being killed for food than for research, and those bred for meat do not live free lives under "humane" conditions either.
Keep in mind that I only support animal testing when it comes to medical research, an animal's life may save thousands of human (and animal) lives. Whereas with cosmetics, I'm completely against it. An animal's life is worth more than making sure we look good.
When it comes to criminals, there's also many issues involved. Firstly of course is the ethics of human experimenting, criminal or not they remain human. Also many experiments on animals involve inbred mice/rats etc so that they are genetically as close to each other as possible so that the effects of any drug can be better understood (eg if two genetically similar mice react to the same drug in different ways, studies of how external stimuli/environmental conditions affect the working of the drug can be done). Other animals are used that have short life cycles so the genetics of new generations can be studied. Whether or not a drug has any effect on a developing foetus also can be studied using animals. None of these can be studied using criminals.
More animals are being killed for food than for research, and those bred for meat do not live free lives under "humane" conditions either.
Keep in mind that I only support animal testing when it comes to medical research, an animal's life may save thousands of human (and animal) lives. Whereas with cosmetics, I'm completely against it. An animal's life is worth more than making sure we look good.
Original post by North Wolf
Not necessarily everyone goes to KFC. Many veggies, or people who are truly concern about animals won't go there at all.
But have you ever walked past KFC?
P.S.Why do you speak in Red Comic Sans? I feel like your tongue is really long and flobbley.
Original post by bananaminion
But have you ever walked past KFC?
P.S.Why do you speak in Red Comic Sans? I feel like your tongue is really long and flobbley.
P.S.Why do you speak in Red Comic Sans? I feel like your tongue is really long and flobbley.
Yes I have walked past, but I never go there.
For Red comic Sans I am doing my TOK presentation on To what extent will the color and font will affect the mind of the people'
But still what is the purpose of your question (of walking past KFC)?
Lots of scientists are constantly trying to develop tissue culture systems and simulations that can be used in the place of animal research. Research using animals actually has a lot of restrictions, having a non-animal system that was was just as informative would be much better because experiments could be designed without the associated ethical restrictions. We're just not there yet.
Also, suggesting that we use criminals for medical research kind of undermines your point.
Also, suggesting that we use criminals for medical research kind of undermines your point.
Original post by Are you Shaw?
Stupid yes, lots of money and jobs involved? Yes. I don't know much about contemporary medical science but can someone name a medical problem solved in the last decade by animal research?
Em. All the drugs and medical treatments available to us are screened through stages of testing, what with animal testing being one of the most important. But if you are wanting some concrete examples: Herceptin, the monoclonal antibody that kills cancer cells, amongst other breast cancer drugs.
Honestly though a lot of contemporary medicine comes from animal research - especially when looking for cures for cancers, AIDS, infections (how do you think vaccines/disease patterns are studied?)
Original post by SikO124
There are a lot of studies that prove vegetarians have deficit on quite a lot of things. And Holly, you won't die, but you're not as healthy as someone who has a diverse diet.
If that is the case them why do many studies show vegetarians are more likely to live longer than those who eat meat.
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/aging-vegetarian-diet-lowers-mortality-and-disease-risk-060313
Original post by North Wolf
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2521087/Rats-guillotined-colleges-lab-Top-university-overhaul-animal-research-work-undercover-investigation-revealed-appalling-conditions.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2503359/British-universities-killed-1-3m-animals-research-year-including-million-mice-10-dogs-emus.html
Top universities like Imperial, Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh are killing the animals in the name of research. Though there are many advantages achieved through these researches, don't you think that we should instead research on different methods to avoid animals getting killed? Some people will say that through research many medicines for dangerous diseases are being discovered, but why don't human apply their brains to develop a simulation of medicine working in animal or human anatomy.
Instead of executing criminals by firing squad, lethal injection, electric chair, hanging or stoning, why don't we use these people on research. Forget human rights, but animals like us too have right to live.
The pictures above are the dog meat markets in South Korea. Looking at these pictures many of us will feel sympathy for dogs. But if the same thing happen to chickens, cow/bulls or pork we won't feel disgusted and I am pretty sure that looking at dog meat photos many people will immediately criticize Koreans for weird food habits? But then shouldn't we must look at ourselves? If a chicken dies, few people will express concern and if a dog dies everyone will feel sad. Don't you all think animals even tiniest of them like insects have a right to live? A purpose to enjoy the beauty of the world? And what we humans are good at? From childhood we enjoy with toys, with teenage years we hangout with friends, adulthood working and during old age retirement. But what about these 'domestic'animals? Born in cage, grow in cage, rot there and finally they are butchered. Most of the animals are lucky like pet dog, cats but same is not true for all other animals.
So don't you think that we should not ruin life of animals? And why we are calling ourselves humans if we are not 'humane'. I feel we should call ourselves Homo-Sapiens and not humans because we are not doing justice to other living beings around. Would like to hear your opinions.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2503359/British-universities-killed-1-3m-animals-research-year-including-million-mice-10-dogs-emus.html
Top universities like Imperial, Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh are killing the animals in the name of research. Though there are many advantages achieved through these researches, don't you think that we should instead research on different methods to avoid animals getting killed? Some people will say that through research many medicines for dangerous diseases are being discovered, but why don't human apply their brains to develop a simulation of medicine working in animal or human anatomy.
Instead of executing criminals by firing squad, lethal injection, electric chair, hanging or stoning, why don't we use these people on research. Forget human rights, but animals like us too have right to live.
The pictures above are the dog meat markets in South Korea. Looking at these pictures many of us will feel sympathy for dogs. But if the same thing happen to chickens, cow/bulls or pork we won't feel disgusted and I am pretty sure that looking at dog meat photos many people will immediately criticize Koreans for weird food habits? But then shouldn't we must look at ourselves? If a chicken dies, few people will express concern and if a dog dies everyone will feel sad. Don't you all think animals even tiniest of them like insects have a right to live? A purpose to enjoy the beauty of the world? And what we humans are good at? From childhood we enjoy with toys, with teenage years we hangout with friends, adulthood working and during old age retirement. But what about these 'domestic'animals? Born in cage, grow in cage, rot there and finally they are butchered. Most of the animals are lucky like pet dog, cats but same is not true for all other animals.
So don't you think that we should not ruin life of animals? And why we are calling ourselves humans if we are not 'humane'. I feel we should call ourselves Homo-Sapiens and not humans because we are not doing justice to other living beings around. Would like to hear your opinions.
Daily Mail therefore invalid.
Original post by North Wolf
Yes I have walked past, but I never go there.
For Red comic Sans I am doing my TOK presentation on To what extent will the color and font will affect the mind of the people'
But still what is the purpose of your question (of walking past KFC)?
For Red comic Sans I am doing my TOK presentation on To what extent will the color and font will affect the mind of the people'
But still what is the purpose of your question (of walking past KFC)?
Does your nose work properly?
P.S. - It affects my mind by making me think you have a long flobbley tongue (you can quote that.)
It's because I am currently doing a study on non-humans and part-humans posing as humans on internet forums.
Original post by betaglucowhat
Lots of scientists are constantly trying to develop tissue culture systems and simulations that can be used in the place of animal research. Research using animals actually has a lot of restrictions, having a non-animal system that was was just as informative would be much better because experiments could be designed without the associated ethical restrictions. We're just not there yet.
Also, suggesting that we use criminals for medical research kind of undermines your point.
Also, suggesting that we use criminals for medical research kind of undermines your point.
Agreed with your point of research but still just because criminals are 'humans' why are they given special status. Just because they are humans why do they walk away. Agreed I might be suggesting some idea which is bit uncommon and harsh, but with types of crimes they are committing today and when they are confirmed of getting death penalty why don't we use this opportunity for better purpose?
Original post by North Wolf
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2521087/Rats-guillotined-colleges-lab-Top-university-overhaul-animal-research-work-undercover-investigation-revealed-appalling-conditions.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2503359/British-universities-killed-1-3m-animals-research-year-including-million-mice-10-dogs-emus.html
Top universities like Imperial, Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh are killing the animals in the name of research. Though there are many advantages achieved through these researches, don't you think that we should instead research on different methods to avoid animals getting killed? Some people will say that through research many medicines for dangerous diseases are being discovered, but why don't human apply their brains to develop a simulation of medicine working in animal or human anatomy.
Instead of executing criminals by firing squad, lethal injection, electric chair, hanging or stoning, why don't we use these people on research. Forget human rights, but animals like us too have right to live.
The pictures above are the dog meat markets in South Korea. Looking at these pictures many of us will feel sympathy for dogs. But if the same thing happen to chickens, cow/bulls or pork we won't feel disgusted and I am pretty sure that looking at dog meat photos many people will immediately criticize Koreans for weird food habits? But then shouldn't we must look at ourselves? If a chicken dies, few people will express concern and if a dog dies everyone will feel sad. Don't you all think animals even tiniest of them like insects have a right to live? A purpose to enjoy the beauty of the world? And what we humans are good at? From childhood we enjoy with toys, with teenage years we hangout with friends, adulthood working and during old age retirement. But what about these 'domestic'animals? Born in cage, grow in cage, rot there and finally they are butchered. Most of the animals are lucky like pet dog, cats but same is not true for all other animals.
So don't you think that we should not ruin life of animals? And why we are calling ourselves humans if we are not 'humane'. I feel we should call ourselves Homo-Sapiens and not humans because we are not doing justice to other living beings around. Would like to hear your opinions.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2503359/British-universities-killed-1-3m-animals-research-year-including-million-mice-10-dogs-emus.html
Top universities like Imperial, Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh are killing the animals in the name of research. Though there are many advantages achieved through these researches, don't you think that we should instead research on different methods to avoid animals getting killed? Some people will say that through research many medicines for dangerous diseases are being discovered, but why don't human apply their brains to develop a simulation of medicine working in animal or human anatomy.
Instead of executing criminals by firing squad, lethal injection, electric chair, hanging or stoning, why don't we use these people on research. Forget human rights, but animals like us too have right to live.
The pictures above are the dog meat markets in South Korea. Looking at these pictures many of us will feel sympathy for dogs. But if the same thing happen to chickens, cow/bulls or pork we won't feel disgusted and I am pretty sure that looking at dog meat photos many people will immediately criticize Koreans for weird food habits? But then shouldn't we must look at ourselves? If a chicken dies, few people will express concern and if a dog dies everyone will feel sad. Don't you all think animals even tiniest of them like insects have a right to live? A purpose to enjoy the beauty of the world? And what we humans are good at? From childhood we enjoy with toys, with teenage years we hangout with friends, adulthood working and during old age retirement. But what about these 'domestic'animals? Born in cage, grow in cage, rot there and finally they are butchered. Most of the animals are lucky like pet dog, cats but same is not true for all other animals.
So don't you think that we should not ruin life of animals? And why we are calling ourselves humans if we are not 'humane'. I feel we should call ourselves Homo-Sapiens and not humans because we are not doing justice to other living beings around. Would like to hear your opinions.
1. Humans have rights even if they are murderers. Those rights are more important than the rights of an animal.
2. Through farming cattle and other animals we have effectively made their species a successful species in terms of evolution. They aren't dieing out any time soon.
3. Why do humans eat meat ? 1. We are at the top of the food chain so it is very accessible , 2. it tastes nice, 3. Why would i waste my perfectly good canines
4. Correct me if I'm wrong but people in Korea do not have dogs as pets which is probly why they don't care....While people in the west have grown attached to dogs due to their usefulness in the past and some still in the present.
5. Humans are not peaceful loving beings. We are a virus on this planet that feeds off the natural resources of the world and gives little back. *cough* watched the matrix yesterday lolz.
Original post by SikO124
There are a lot of studies that prove vegetarians have deficit on quite a lot of things. And Holly, you won't die, but you're not as healthy as someone who has a diverse diet.
Can you cite such studies please? There is countless epidemiology research showing that veggies have lower morbidity and mortality rates.
I don't really want to get into the animal rights arguments as I think it is very much a personal choice regarding animal consumption/use, but the idea the vegetarians are not healthy is simply not supported by research into the subject.
Original post by SikO124
We need to eat, otherwise we die. As simple as that.
Yes we need to eat, what's your point?
Some may argue that they are going to do die anyway so it doesnt make a difference if we kill them
Original post by bananaminion
Does your nose work properly?
P.S. - It affects my mind by making me think you have a long flobbley tongue (you can quote that.)
It's because I am currently doing a study on non-humans and part-humans posing as humans on internet forums.
P.S. - It affects my mind by making me think you have a long flobbley tongue (you can quote that.)
It's because I am currently doing a study on non-humans and part-humans posing as humans on internet forums.
Got your point, but if you have will and you are the master of your own sense then I won't have the temptation to eat KFC fries.
P.S And I don't care if you think ill of me and nor do I give a damn if you call me a part human posting in internet forum, sometimes I feel that in terms of love and loyalty, animals are far better than us and they deserve better place than human infested planet.
I see it as a food chain where we are pretty much at the top. It doesn't really bother me.
Original post by iamthechosen1
Some may argue that they are going to do die anyway so it doesnt make a difference if we kill them
True dat... But then the animal rights fanatics just bash people who say that lolz.
Original post by North Wolf
Agreed with your point of research but still just because criminals are 'humans' why are they given special status. Just because they are humans why do they walk away. Agreed I might be suggesting some idea which is bit uncommon and harsh, but with types of crimes they are committing today and when they are confirmed of getting death penalty why don't we use this opportunity for better purpose?
The fact that it is possible (and indeed not as uncommon as it should be) for a person to be convicted of a crime they did not commit means experimentation on criminals, even if we accept that criminals should be experimented upon, would be abhorrent.
Because bacon tastes so good 
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