Gay adoption?
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Original post by AbuTSR
It's more to do with my children's interest.
I think environment has a major effect on sexuality.
Why? Just once, can you justify anything you say? You make all those obviously ridiculous belligerent arguments, yet when questioned on them simply either deflect the issue or ignore the question.
Whilst you're answering why you believe murder is just as abhorrent as loving someone of the same sex, could you also explain why you would rather your child be homeless than looked after by people that just happen to have a different (ostensibly...) sexual orientation to you? If you could do that without referring to necrophilia or bestiality or vague statements such as 'it's better in the long run', then that would be great. (Although I won't get my hopes up.)
Original post by Zürich
Google has come up with this in 5 seconds: http://www.frc.org/content/comparing-the-lifestyles-of-homosexual-couples-to-married-couples
Google has come up with this in 5 seconds: http://www.frc.org/content/comparing-the-lifestyles-of-homosexual-couples-to-married-couples
Your best source is a Conservative Christian family research group? Now we know you're clutching at straws...
Original post by CrumpledFudge
I'm fuming, can you tell? I'm in complete shock. His views are absolutely sickening.
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Just a tad
I agree. He doesn't seem to like explaining what he says either (for obvious reasons), instead he seems keen on deflecting the issue with a made up unrelated scenario
Original post by AbuTSR
In that case, certain species of animals kill there mates after copulation. If we did it, does that mean it isn't not normal?
I edited my post.
I was arguing that it isn't unnatural - there are innate traits in species that determine how they behave. Some species have evolved such a trait, but it remains natural for that species. There are biological reasons behind it.
Regardless, this has nothing to do wig the main argument. I made that comment poorly and others have provided evidence.
Denmark and others countries have legalised bestiality. I'm sure there's no consent there.
I fail to understand what point you are making.
I'm pretty sure there is consent within a homosexual relationship.
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by AbuTSR
It's more to do with my children's interest
It's more to do with my children's interest
It would be in your child's best interests to throw them out on the streets? Is this an element of Islamic parenting? In fairness, I have heard quite a few examples of Muslim parents throwing their children out of home.
Why they feel that making their child homeless is in their best interests is beyond me.
Original post by Madisonrose
Just watched this adoption programme on channel 4 and lots of gay parents adopt kids and just wondered what everyone's thoughts are about this? I personally think it's good as it gives many gay couples a chance at parenthood but my only worry is the kids will grow up not having a mum/dad. Then again lots of single parents around.
I think the problem with the whole debate is that we don't really know if the outcomes of children (particularly straight children) brought up in gay households is worse than in straight households.
A priori, though, it seems very unlikely that they would have worse outcomes in a middle class gay household than in institutional care. From that perspective, I'm all for gay adoption being allowed. In a decade or two we'll then have enough data to work if it's really that bad for kids (my money is on it making not a lot of difference; perhaps the only negative in the outcomes might be due to increased bullying).
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by MostUncivilised
It would be in your child's best interests to throw them out on the streets? Is this an element of Islamic parenting? In fairness, I have heard quite a few examples of Muslim parents throwing their children out of home.
Why they feel that making their child homeless is in their best interests is beyond me.
Why they feel that making their child homeless is in their best interests is beyond me.
I'm not ashamed to say that I enjoyed this post immensely.
Original post by MostUncivilised
Actually, I'm not sure they would be confused. Having friends who are gays and are parents (not adoptive, the kids are theirs biologically), when the kids are younger they just accept it as being normal. It doesn't occur to them that their family is abnormal.
When they get older and realise that it heterosexual parents are typical, by that time they are entirely used to it.
What about situations where the children are not adopted, but are the biological child?
That's not a scientific statement, it's an opinoin.
That's not scientific fact, it's a political opinion. And frankly, I don't think kids who have gay parents really need to have their living situation judged by someone who thinks they are the social police and are to judge what kind of families are "correct"
.
When they get older and realise that it heterosexual parents are typical, by that time they are entirely used to it.
What about situations where the children are not adopted, but are the biological child?
That's not a scientific statement, it's an opinoin.
That's not scientific fact, it's a political opinion. And frankly, I don't think kids who have gay parents really need to have their living situation judged by someone who thinks they are the social police and are to judge what kind of families are "correct"
.
No, it is not an opinion, at all. Children naturally expect a mother and a father, that's the way we've evolved. I realise that it is de rigueur in leftist circles these days to deny any facts which don't facilitate the outcomes they want of course, but I am still amazed how you can deny that the optimal environment for a child is to have one mother and one father. It is the flip side of religious nutjobs who claim that gay people can be converted back to being straight. Both sides outright deny the laws of nature.
2 gay men are not interchangeable for a mother and a father and it's as simple as that. That's not to say that the child would not be better off in a same sex household over a foster home, both are very unnatural situations for any child. So society needs to make a judgement call on which is better for the child. Unfortunately the debate always seems to centre on which facts are unpalatable to gay people rather on the welfare of the child, which ought to be the only issue here.
(edited 9 years ago)
Wow this escalated quickly :/ the programme was called wanted, a family of my own. And sorry it was actually on itv :/
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Original post by Zürich
No, it is not an opinion, at all. Children naturally expect a mother and a father, that's the way we've evolved. I realise that it is de rigueur in leftist circles these days to deny any facts which don't facilitate the outcomes they want of course, but I am still amazed how you can deny that the optimal environment for a child is to have one mother and one father. It is the flip side of religious nutjobs denying evolution.
2 gay men are not interchangeable for a mother and a father and it's as simple as that. That's not to say that the child would not be better off in a same sex household over a foster home, both are very unnatural situations for any child. So society needs to make a judgement call on which is better for the child. Unfortunately the debate always seems to centre on which facts are unpalatable to gay people rather on the welfare of the child, which ought to be the only issue here.
2 gay men are not interchangeable for a mother and a father and it's as simple as that. That's not to say that the child would not be better off in a same sex household over a foster home, both are very unnatural situations for any child. So society needs to make a judgement call on which is better for the child. Unfortunately the debate always seems to centre on which facts are unpalatable to gay people rather on the welfare of the child, which ought to be the only issue here.
In which case, what about single-parent families?
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If my child had to be adopted by either a gay couple or a straight couple, and both were fit to parent, I would choose straight any day.
Gay parents with a child are not the 'normal' family unit. Sorry, I think you can dress it up how you want, that child is going to have a load of additional (unnecessary) problems to deal with which would not arise if they had one mum and one dad at home. Despite how much the parents might love them, I don't feel it's in the child's best interests, especially in certain parts of the country where gay parenting and gay marriage aren't so favoured.
Gay parents with a child are not the 'normal' family unit. Sorry, I think you can dress it up how you want, that child is going to have a load of additional (unnecessary) problems to deal with which would not arise if they had one mum and one dad at home. Despite how much the parents might love them, I don't feel it's in the child's best interests, especially in certain parts of the country where gay parenting and gay marriage aren't so favoured.
Original post by CrumpledFudge
It's a hypothetical question about a hypothetical situation, to do with your hypothetical children who you started this whole thing about. So I'm sure you can hypothetically answer. Bit sad if you want to start picking & choosing the hypothetical situations you want to discuss.
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I gave an answer and you seem unhappy with it.
Like I said, they're both equally abhorrent.
Original post by Law-Hopeful
Why? Just once, can you justify anything you say? You make all those obviously ridiculous belligerent arguments, yet when questioned on them simply either deflect the issue or ignore the question.
Whilst you're answering why you believe murder is just as abhorrent as loving someone of the same sex, could you also explain why you would rather your child be homeless than looked after by people that just happen to have a different (ostensibly...) sexual orientation to you? If you could do that without referring to necrophilia or bestiality or vague statements such as 'it's better in the long run', then that would be great. (Although I won't get my hopes up.)
Whilst you're answering why you believe murder is just as abhorrent as loving someone of the same sex, could you also explain why you would rather your child be homeless than looked after by people that just happen to have a different (ostensibly...) sexual orientation to you? If you could do that without referring to necrophilia or bestiality or vague statements such as 'it's better in the long run', then that would be great. (Although I won't get my hopes up.)
I was asked a closed question and I responded. Do you also have short term memory? I answered the homeless issue and you said it's purely for my interest.
Original post by ILovePancakes
I edited my post.
I was arguing that it isn't unnatural - there are innate traits in species that determine how they behave. Some species have evolved such a trait, but it remains natural for that species. There are biological reasons behind it.
Regardless, this has nothing to do wig the main argument. I made that comment poorly and others have provided evidence.
I fail to understand what point you are making.
I'm pretty sure there is consent within a homosexual relationship.
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I was arguing that it isn't unnatural - there are innate traits in species that determine how they behave. Some species have evolved such a trait, but it remains natural for that species. There are biological reasons behind it.
Regardless, this has nothing to do wig the main argument. I made that comment poorly and others have provided evidence.
I fail to understand what point you are making.
I'm pretty sure there is consent within a homosexual relationship.
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There's consent in quite a lot of relationships that you'd find disturbing.
Original post by MostUncivilised
It would be in your child's best interests to throw them out on the streets? Is this an element of Islamic parenting? In fairness, I have heard quite a few examples of Muslim parents throwing their children out of home.
Why they feel that making their child homeless is in their best interests is beyond me.
Why they feel that making their child homeless is in their best interests is beyond me.
It isn't an element of Islamic parenting but taking the lesser of two evils is Islamic.
The lesser of the two evils in this case is my kid being homeless.
To anyone who wants to watch it, it's on itvplayer. It's actually not about gay parents it's about adoption but there are a lot of gay couples taking about the stigma they get about being gay parents
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Original post by ILovePancakes
Exactly, what makes them any more 'natural' than a homosexual couple adopting a child?
If you define 'natural' by one mother and one father, then they both deviate from nature (to what extent is a different question).
Original post by Zürich
No, it is not an opinion, at all. Children naturally expect a mother and a father
Citation please.
I realise that it is de rigueur in leftist circles
It's de rigueur to inject political rhetoric into a social issue if you feel like you're on unstable ground scientifically speaking.
the optimal environment for a child is to have one mother and one father.
Citation please. The optimal environment for a child is with their parents, or failing that, adoptive parents selected as being the most appropriate guardians.
2 gay men are not interchangeable for a mother and a father and it's as simple as that
That's a statement of opinion, not a serious assertion of scientific fact.
That's not to say that the child would not be better off in a same sex household over a foster home, both are very unnatural situations for any child
Almost everything about modern life is "unnatural". Using a computer is unnatural, vaccinating our children so they don't die from preventable diseases is strictly unnatural. Using glasses so you can see is unnatural.
Unfortunately the debate always seems to centre on which facts are unpalatable to gay people
Facts which you appear unable to substantiate with citations.
rather on the welfare of the child
Adoption agencies paramount concern is the welfare of the child, the law requires that be their primary consideration.
Original post by AbuTSR
It isn't an element of Islamic parenting but taking the lesser of two evils is Islamic.
The lesser of the two evils in this case is my kid being homeless.
It isn't an element of Islamic parenting but taking the lesser of two evils is Islamic.
The lesser of the two evils in this case is my kid being homeless.
How is that the lesser of two evils? It simply seems like utter selfishness, it comes across as parents putting their own selfish desire for revenge against their own flesh and blood over and above the best interests of the child (and making a child homeless is obviously not in their best interests).
Frankly, I'm surprised that "parents" who kick their child out of home have so little shame, that they're not utterly embarrassed by having a homeless child. These are truly warped priorities, and appear not to care at all about their own family.
Original post by x-pixie-x
If my child had to be adopted by either a gay couple or a straight couple, and both were fit to parent, I would choose straight any day.
Gay parents with a child are not the 'normal' family unit. Sorry, I think you can dress it up how you want, that child is going to have a load of additional (unnecessary) problems to deal with which would not arise if they had one mum and one dad at home. Despite how much the parents might love them, I don't feel it's in the child's best interests, especially in certain parts of the country where gay parenting and gay marriage aren't so favoured.
Gay parents with a child are not the 'normal' family unit. Sorry, I think you can dress it up how you want, that child is going to have a load of additional (unnecessary) problems to deal with which would not arise if they had one mum and one dad at home. Despite how much the parents might love them, I don't feel it's in the child's best interests, especially in certain parts of the country where gay parenting and gay marriage aren't so favoured.
You're more than welcome to that opinion. I think the main issue here stemmed from 'AbuTSR' saying they he would rather his children be made homeless than cared for by a homosexual couple. Something which I hope you would find at least mildly revolting.
Original post by AbuTSR
The lesser of the two evils in this case is my kid being homeless.
The lesser of the two evils in this case is my kid being homeless.
Shall we try again?
Let me make this as easy as possible for you: how/why is it in your child's best interests to be homeless than cared for by a homosexual couple? Please justify any arguments you may conjure up, or else they're worth nothing to this debate.
Original post by AbuTSR
I gave an answer and you seem unhappy with it.
Like I said, they're both equally abhorrent.
I was asked a closed question and I responded. Do you also have short term memory? I answered the homeless issue and you said it's purely for my interest.
There's consent in quite a lot of relationships that you'd find disturbing.
It isn't an element of Islamic parenting but taking the lesser of two evils is Islamic.
The lesser of the two evils in this case is my kid being homeless.
Like I said, they're both equally abhorrent.
I was asked a closed question and I responded. Do you also have short term memory? I answered the homeless issue and you said it's purely for my interest.
There's consent in quite a lot of relationships that you'd find disturbing.
It isn't an element of Islamic parenting but taking the lesser of two evils is Islamic.
The lesser of the two evils in this case is my kid being homeless.
You just said beastiality was non-consensual. Again, you're not making any kind of argument.
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Original post by AbuTSR
I gave an answer and you seem unhappy with it.
Like I said, they're both equally abhorrent.
Like I said, they're both equally abhorrent.
The question was an either/or question - I was curious to see which you'd choose to be worse, if hypothetically you could only pick one. You're either struggling to work out which is worse between murder or love, or just can't bring yourself to admit that you think homosexuality is worse than murder. Unless the issue is that you do actually think murder's worse, but you're too afraid to admit it? Even though that's what any normal human being without deep psychological issues would say. You clearly aren't free of deep psychological issues though, to state that murder and homosexuality are equally as bad as each other.
If your child was dying & the only person who could save them was gay, would you let your child die or be saved?
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Original post by Law-Hopeful
Shall we try again?
Let me make this as easy as possible for you: how/why is it in your child's best interests to be homeless than cared for by a homosexual couple? Please justify any arguments you may conjure up, or else they're worth nothing to this debate.
Let me make this as easy as possible for you: how/why is it in your child's best interests to be homeless than cared for by a homosexual couple? Please justify any arguments you may conjure up, or else they're worth nothing to this debate.
I genuinely think he's missing some vital brain cells. Genuinely. How someone could possibly be so stupid, I can't get my head around it.
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Original post by Law-Hopeful
You're more than welcome to that opinion. I think the main issue here stemmed from 'AbuTSR' saying they he would rather his children be made homeless than cared for by a homosexual couple. Something which I hope you would find at least mildly revolting.
Anything he and his cohort say shouldn't be encouraged, he clearly likes causing a stir. And yes, I think he is a nutcase for holding such views.
I just think, for me, ideally you need a mum and a dad because each has a different role when it comes to child rearing and I feel the child would be missing out and would be a target for bullies.
Obviously this is in the adoption scenario, not sure how many single parents adopt but I think society is more accepting of them then they are gay parents tbh.
(edited 9 years ago)
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