Do you hate Americans?

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Bismarck
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#2301
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#2301
I'm sorry but any organization calling Guantanamo a gulag doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.
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Douglas
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#2302
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#2302
(Original post by Bismarck)
And as I mentioned last time, you're not going back far enough. The period from '73 is not ordinary due to the oil crises, collapse of the gold standard, end of the Cold War, etc. Why not go back to 1945?

The deficit for 2004 is $410 billion if you include the $150 billion Social Security Surplus ($560 billion if you don't).
Your data shows a 2004 deficit as 4.9%, the data I just found says 4.3%.

Anyway, my point is....that the lefties, in terms of the deficit, bring up dollar amounts, "highest in history". Well no shlt **** Tracy, so is our population, so is our GDP, so is our revenues, so is our work force.
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Bismarck
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#2303
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#2303
(Original post by Douglas)
Your data shows a 2004 deficit as 4.9%, the data I just found says 4.3%.

Anyway, my point is....that the lefties, in terms of the deficit, bring up dollar amounts, "highest in history". Well no shlt **** Tracy, so is our population, so is our GDP, so is our revenues, so is our work force.
It depends on how you calculate the deficit. I doubt the Congressional Budget Office would provide an artificially high figure...
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Douglas
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#2304
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#2304
(Original post by Kondar)
HMOs are government-created and taxpayer-subsidized entities that pay physicians and hospitals predetermined, per-capita fees, regardless of what medical services are actually provided.
Kondar, if HMO's are gov't subsidized, it's news to me. Since I don't know, I won't comment.

Under HMO capitation, physicians and hospitals no longer have a financial incentive to do all that is necessary to treat a patient's illness. Rather, their incentive is to minimize the care provided. In HMOs, a physician's pay is tied not to the services he renders, but to the services he does not render.
Interesting, I just heard on the news tonight, that doctors are practicing "preventative litigation", that is, running unnecessary tests on patients as a means of ass cover.....another reason why medical costs are so high.
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Douglas
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#2305
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#2305
(Original post by Kondar)
..as opposed to being online on the forum all day long? :P
But with the games on the forum, there's never a winner. C'ept for Vienna, who wears you down to a shrivelled skeleton.
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Douglas
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#2306
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#2306
(Original post by Kondar)
Another criticism of George Bush is the way he has handled the recent allegations from Amnesty International. ?
Kondar, AI is an international joke. Even the looney Leftie Bill Moyers derides that organization.

Why don't you defend the ACLU who is sueing the defense department to release more pictures of Abu Ghraib.....the abhorrent torture chamber where unspeakable atrocities have been commited. The public needs to see more pictures of woman leading muslim prisoners around with a rope, or they may have a picture of a guard tearing up a Koran. Think of how many people will be killed in riots.
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Kondar
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#2307
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#2307
(Original post by Douglas)
Kondar, AI is an international joke. Even the looney Leftie Bill Moyers derides that organization.

Why don't you defend the ACLU who is sueing the defense department to release more pictures of Abu Ghraib.....the abhorrent torture chamber where unspeakable atrocities have been commited. The public needs to see more pictures of woman leading muslim prisoners around with a rope, or they may have a picture of a guard tearing up a Koran. Think of how many people will be killed in riots.
Let me explain something to you Dougie boy (Im still waiting for those tuition checks) we live in a society with rules and liberties that help ensure freedom for all. Crimes were commited at Aby Ghraib and the pictures are a matter of public record, the press sould have access to them. Bush is breaking the law by not allowing them, this is in a way a form of cencorship. This is unAmerican and unConstitituonal and as an American and especially as a Republican, you should be outraged by this. These laws exist to protect our liberties and our freedoms and should never be scrapped away even in darker times.
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psychic_satori
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#2308
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#2308
(Original post by Kondar)
Let me explain something to you Dougie boy (Im still waiting for those tuition checks) we live in a society with rules and liberties that help ensure freedom for all. Crimes were commited at Aby Ghraib and the pictures are a matter of public record, the press sould have access to them. Bush is breaking the law by not allowing them, this is in a way a form of cencorship. This is unAmerican and unConstitituonal and as an American and especially as a Republican, you should be outraged by this. These laws exist to protect our liberties and our freedoms and should never be scrapped away even in darker times.
In all fairness, "our" people aren't exactly the ones being locked up in Abu Ghraib.
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Kondar
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#2309
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#2309
(Original post by psychic_satori)
In all fairness, "our" people aren't exactly the ones being locked up in Abu Ghraib.
That is irrelevant, the point is these laws exist in good times and in bad. The real test of a democracy and liberties is not in happy times as anything can survive that, but in bad times. The US and the American people are being tested now, and in my opinion, are not fairing very well.
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psychic_satori
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#2310
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#2310
(Original post by Kondar)
That is irrelevant, the point is these laws exist in good times and in bad. The real test of a democracy and liberties is not in happy times as anything can survive that, but in bad times. The US and the American people are being tested now, and in my opinion, are not fairing very well.
The rights granted in the Constitution are given to US citizens, not all comers.
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Kondar
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#2311
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#2311
(Original post by psychic_satori)
The rights granted in the Constitution are given to US citizens, not all comers.
I am a US citizen. The media are US citizens. Ever heard of the freedom of information act? What the Bush administration is doing is unconstitutional. Is this something, you as an american, can tolerate?
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Douglas
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#2312
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#2312
(Original post by Bismarck)
It depends on how you calculate the deficit. I doubt the Congressional Budget Office would provide an artificially high figure...
They work social security into the deficit. Not sure how that works. Anyway, looks like the total 2004 deficit is around 3.9%
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Douglas
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#2313
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#2313
(Original post by Kondar)
I am a US citizen. The media are US citizens. Ever heard of the freedom of information act? What the Bush administration is doing is unconstitutional. Is this something, you as an american, can tolerate?
And where in the constitution, or the amendments to the constitution is this "freedom of information" act located ??

Anyway, you call it "freedom of info" and I'll call it "national security.

How's that?
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Kondar
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#2314
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#2314
(Original post by Douglas)
And where in the constitution, or the amendments to the constitution is this "freedom of information" act located ??

Anyway, you call it "freedom of info" and I'll call it "national security.

How's that?
Are you really asserting that Bush has the right to over ride, undo, go beyond our national laws?

What kind of precedent does this set? You realise that it is ignorant, naive, gullable nutcases like yourself that have always follow every Hitler and Pol Pot in history. Buying into their propoganda and thier scare tactics, allowing them to ingore and bypass the previously established democratic laws of soceity.

How many liberties are you willing to let this idea of 'national security' destroy? What if the government starts to cencor and arrest reporters? Starts to control the news, sends our students to weekly 'political thought classes'... what an idiot response. People like you are destroying our constitution with your apathetic and absolute willingness to get rid of everything that makes our country great. The land of the free, the home of the brave, you remember that?!

If Bush break and ignore all these laws then what does that really say about how strong our government truly is?

THIS IS THE TEST! and we as a country are failing, thanks in large part to people like yourself. If it is really this easy to destroy democracy then the United States is truly a weak country.

"A popular Government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives."
-James Madison
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foxo
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#2315
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#2315
(Original post by Geordie_in_HK)
Whoever was on about online games - it's not surprising most of the ppl you played against were redneck scum. We are talking about ppl who play games on the internet all day! What kind of a narrow minded life is that!? I hate all the kids here (in HK and China) who play online games, it's so sad...
Hey, I didn't play it all day. I wouldn't be a very prospective Law student if that were the case.
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Bismarck
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#2316
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#2316
(Original post by Douglas)
They work social security into the deficit. Not sure how that works. Anyway, looks like the total 2004 deficit is around 3.9%
The $100 billion year Medicare bill doesn't take into effect until next year. The SS surplus should fall each year regardless of what the government does. SS is not calculated into the deficit; it's running a $150 billion surplus. If this surplus didn't exist (and it soon won't), the deficit will rise by that amount. Expect the deficit to be over 5% in 2006 even if the SS surplus is included.

(Original post by Kondar)
If Bush break and ignore all these laws then what does that really say about how strong our government truly is?

THIS IS THE TEST! and we as a country are failing, thanks in large part to people like yourself. If it is really this easy to destroy democracy then the United States is truly a weak country.
Of course that ignores the fact that the amount of rights Americans lost during Vietnam, WWII, WWI, the Civil War, War of 1812, and the Revolution was significantly more than what he lost now. That doesn't justify Bush's actions, but it certainly doesn't make him any worse (when it comes to human rights) than Johnson, Roosevelt, Wilson, Lincoln, Madison, or Washington.
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psychic_satori
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#2317
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#2317
(Original post by Kondar)
I am a US citizen. The media are US citizens. Ever heard of the freedom of information act? What the Bush administration is doing is unconstitutional. Is this something, you as an american, can tolerate?
We are apparently discussing different things now? I was referring to people locked up in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, etc. Now, you're going on about the freedom of information act?
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JonnyB
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#2318
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#2318
Bit of a **** poll really.
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psychic_satori
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#2319
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#2319
(Original post by Kondar)
THIS IS THE TEST! and we as a country are failing, thanks in large part to people like yourself. If it is really this easy to destroy democracy then the United States is truly a weak country.

"A popular Government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives."
-James Madison
Kondar blinking back tears of conviction, again. Down a shot.

Even in Madison's time, there was never an incredibly liberal divulsion of information relating to the government, particularly relating to war. It's an ideal, one that, if it were obtained, would endanger lives unnecessarily. In our current situation, terrorists intend to use our open society against us. When you are at war, you cannot be totally transparent with everything you are doing, or you may as well not bother fighting the enemy. It's totally understandable for the US government to place the safety of Americans above the treatment of foreign prisoners. Welcome to reality.
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spikdboy
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#2320
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#2320
(Original post by Bismarck)
Of course that ignores the fact that the amount of rights Americans lost during Vietnam, WWII, WWI, the Civil War, War of 1812, and the Revolution was significantly more than what he lost now. That doesn't justify Bush's actions, but it certainly doesn't make him any worse (when it comes to human rights) than Johnson, Roosevelt, Wilson, Lincoln, Madison, or Washington.
I fail to understand why Iraq has any business being mentioned in the same sentence as Vietnam, WWI, WWII, War of 1812, the American Revolution, and the Civil War. Those (though Vietnam can certainly be debated) all had a fairly good reason. WWI and WWII were inevitable for us to enter, the American Revolution, War of 1812, and the Civil War were necessary for us to maintain our country, and Vietnam was our way of saying "We will fight back against communism", even if that last one turned out to be pretty dumb.

I don't believe that the Iraq War was very just, and it was undoubtedly sparked by lies. I'm convinced that the Administration knew there was at least a strong possibility that there were no WMDs. The reason we're now being told we're there is to "spread democracy" and "to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here" (Bush;Bush). Perhaps we could have picked a better place to do this?

Anyways, I'm appalled at how badly Bush has run this country in the past 5 years. I guess the reason I hate Bush is because I am patriotic and I do care about my country's welfare, which is being destroyed by Bush.
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