This whole "fluid gender" thing..

But we haven't had a need for these words for Millenia, now one person has come up with it people are jumping on th band wagon. Where does it end? If I wake up tomorrow feeling like a transgender, pansexual Walrus named Tanquia, is that ok? Will everyone accept it? Naaa

Men and women have different brain structures. Whether we identify as male or female doesn't depend on whether we like stereotypically male things or stereotypically female things. But gender identity is ingrained in our brains, we all know whether we are boys or girls even when we are toddlers. Do you remember a time in your life when you didn't know you were a boy? Transgendered kids often tell their parents they are the opposite sex when they are only two or three years old. A transgendered person may have their brains wired like a female but have the genitals of a male for example. Therefore they would identify as female and feel like their body is wrong. You don't feel like that because your genitals and brain are both male. Imagine that you got kidnapped, sedated and someone performed a sex change on you. You wake up with a vagina and tits but then would you be like 'I'm a female, lets go buy some high heels and find a husband', nope! You would still be a male with a male brain and you would feel like your body does not belong to you. You wouldnt identify as a woman and you wouldnt suddenly start being interested in painting your nails or applying make up or whatever. Your gender is not only your genitals, everything about us is in our brain, and it some cases people's genitals and brains do not match.

By the English dictionary, actually.

Okay; so you're saying a person's "gender" is dependent on their brain, and that a transgender person might have the genitals of one sex but the brain of another? What is the difference between a "male" brain and a "female" brain? And in what way would you expect these differences to manifest themselves in the character of the person in question?

This is the bit I don't understand: Suppose you are born with "female genitals" and a "male brain" (as opposed to the example you've given about getting kidnapped and having a sex change performed forcibly). How would you know that there is any "mismatch"? If you've lived like that your entire life, with a female brain and male genitals, surely that's just normal as far as you're concerned? How would you know that your brain matches more closely with those who have male genitals if you've never experienced what it is like to have those people's brains? How can you know that you "feel like a man" when you have no idea what other men feel like?

How would you know that there is any "mismatch"? If you've lived like that your entire life, with a female brain and male genitals, surely that's just normal as far as you're concerned? How would you know that your brain matches more closely with those who have male genitals if you've never experienced what it is like to have those people's brains? How can you know that you "feel like a man" when you have no idea what other men feel like?

This isn't quite the answer to my question though. A man could "identify" as a woman if he finds himself with an affinity towards the lifestyle usually shared by other women, or he might not. He might feel more of a sense of belonging amongst a crowd of women than amongst a crowd of men. Fair enough.

But at what point is it true to say "Not only does this male-bodied person identify as a woman, he actually is one"? Or are you telling me that anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman, and anyone who identifies as a man is a man, by definition?

If only it would let me upvote you again.



The only thing I don't understand about all this is why people who aren't affected by it get their knickers in a twist over it.

Just accept that some people don't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. Some people don't identify as one single gender. Some people don't identify as any gender. It doesn't hurt you in any way whatsoever, just let them get on with it, it's their life ffs. Who the hell are you to tell them how they feel?

Now I want to upvote you again even though I already upvoted something of yours. We are forming a PRSOM chain.

That's bisexual, surely?

That is exactly the point, a female-to-male transgendered person has experienced what it is like to have a male brain since they have a male brain. That is the only thing they have experienced.You can know you 'feel like a man' because you have a male brain. A female-to-male person would not know what it is like to be a female or feel like a female- since they don't have a female brain.

I never understood why people find it hard to understand transgenderism, it is not a difficult concept.

I was going to correct the person you quoted because what he said doesn't make sense. Effeminate men who have traditionally feminine interests and have exclusively female friends are still men and identify as men. Not women. If a male identifies as a woman they are transgendered.

The question "Not only does this male-bodied person identify as a woman, he actually is one"? does not make sense, because if someone with male genitalia identifies as a woman, that automatically means they are transgendered - aka have male genitalia but a female brain.

No, because, as we've already discussed ad infinitum, Gender != Sex.

We haven't discussed it, you merely stated it.

Okay - suppose you have an effeminate male, who has traditionally feminine interests and personality traits etc. What exactly is it that determines whether he is just a man with a feminine mind, or a woman with a male body? What is the difference?

If you were born a man, i will call you a man no matter how many surgery you undergo

Aren't you just lovely and open minded.