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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    The world? lol what you actually mean is that your quality of life in the West will diminish since Africans will start using their own resources and food for themselves and not to feed you... lol strange. I agree that drastic population growth can be bad but it is unfair to try say that Africa doesn't deserve to grow to the levels that the West has. You're essentially just worried that yourquality of life will decrease. Also 'never contribute to society' -_- these people grow your food, mine your diamond rings and besides that they also contribute to their own societies. Unless of course, you mean that they do not generate wealth which if you didn't know is not the purpose of a society.

    How about you instead complain about the rampant consumerist culture that exists in the West. The massive amounts of waste created by the West. Throwing away thousands of tonnes of food and contaminating water, carelessly. There is enough food but the West is being greedy which is why you believe we cannot cope with Africa's growth. Africa can be completely self sufficient if it wanted to but it is getting exploited. Induce wars and disease? wow. Don't get me started.

    I respect your opinion though since this is a forum just about that but I believe your motives are very selfish and you don't actually care about the fate of the planet, but instead the fate of you and your friends.
    Europe could become 100% carbon neutral and only rely on tidal, wind and solar power, be a net importer of rubbish and recycle it en masse, become self-sufficient in food by growing crops in vertical farms and algae farming, turn the entire North Sea into a nature reserve and still the entire quantity of pollution produced and biomass destroyed in its entire history will be dwarfed by a world of 16 billion people (UN highest estimate), only around 700m of who will be in Europe.

    Yes people in Europe and the West live beyond their means. But Europe as a continent seems to be the only place seriously tackling things like climate change (furthering our own unilateral economic decline) and it truly is a waste of time doing so when it will have no affect on environment because of countries not only like China and India but also Nigeria, Indonesia, Pakistan, Mexico, Egypt and the like.

    Look at the following pictures. Here's a typical image symbolising the rise of China. An absolutely stunning skyline. Pudong in Shanghai - This century's Manhattan.

    Then the horror is revealed from a different perspective. The skyscrapers of the above picture can be found in the top right corner of the picture below.

    Of course urban sprawl is nothing new. We saw it with Victorian London and the American cities of the 20th century. But as these images show, it was nothing of this unsustainable magnitude.
    London:

    Los Angeles:

    And now we come to Africa. This is Lagos, the largest city in Nigeria.


    Can we really this mass urbanisation and destruction happen again and again? Western countries have already begun work on the transformation into a green, carbon neutral societies. Can we truly believe that the Chinese, Africans and Arabs (who have a very different culture to the West) will ever follow suit?

    I doubt it. That legacy of industrialising late, of being 'exploited', will persist and be used to justify this unprecedented genocidal war crime against the whole of humanity I think. I dread to think that it'll be in our lifetimes that we 'run out' of meat and fruit and vegetables, fresh water and fertiliser, medicine and even materials like steel as it's all used up to allow this development.

    And our grandchildren's lives? Lives of destitute poverty and hardship in decaying towers rife with disease, burdened with the crushing knowledge that despite advances in technology they will be trapped on a suffocating, flooded, quarried rock as the political, economic and technological limits of space travel become clear. Will anyone be around by the time we can actually go out into Space? Or will we have destroyed the planet in a nuclear holocaust over the fight for the last drop of fresh water?
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    (Original post by Roofas)
    Europe could become 100% carbon neutral and only rely on tidal, wind and solar power, be a net importer of rubbish and recycle it en masse, become self-sufficient in food by growing crops in vertical farms and algae farming, turn the entire North Sea into a nature reserve and still the entire quantity of pollution produced and biomass destroyed in its entire history will be dwarfed by a world of 16 billion people (UN highest estimate), only around 700m of who will be in Europe.

    Yes people in Europe and the West live beyond their means. But Europe as a continent seems to be the only place seriously tackling things like climate change (furthering our own unilateral economic decline) and it truly is a waste of time doing so when it will have no affect on environment because of countries not only like China and India but also Nigeria, Indonesia, Pakistan, Mexico, Egypt and the like.

    Look at the following pictures. Here's a typical image symbolising the rise of China. An absolutely stunning skyline. Pudong in Shanghai - This century's Manhattan.

    Then the horror is revealed from a different perspective. The skyscrapers of the above picture can be found in the top right corner of the picture below.

    Of course urban sprawl is nothing new. We saw it with Victorian London and the American cities of the 20th century. But as these images show, it was nothing of this unsustainable magnitude.
    London:

    Los Angeles:

    And now we come to Africa. This is Lagos, the largest city in Nigeria.


    Can we really this mass urbanisation and destruction happen again and again? Western countries have already begun work on the transformation into a green, carbon neutral societies. Can we truly believe that the Chinese, Africans and Arabs (who have a very different culture to the West) will ever follow suit?

    I doubt it. That legacy of industrialising late, of being 'exploited', will persist and be used to justify this unprecedented genocidal war crime against the whole of humanity I think. I dread to think that it'll be in our lifetimes that we 'run out' of meat and fruit and vegetables, fresh water and fertiliser, medicine and even materials like steel as it's all used up to allow this development.

    And our grandchildren's lives? Lives of destitute poverty and hardship in decaying towers rife with disease, burdened with the crushing knowledge that despite advances in technology they will be trapped on a suffocating, flooded, quarried rock as the political, economic and technological limits of space travel become clear. Will anyone be around by the time we can actually go out into Space? Or will we have destroyed the planet in a nuclear holocaust over the fight for the last drop of fresh water?
    What sensationalist fear mongering
    You are ridiculous.
    You can have whatever opinion you like but you won't be free from criticism.

    So you think to prevent the genocide of 'humanity' and by humanity you mean white people, it's best to carry out a genocide on specific continents you believe aren't 'up to scratch' ?
    It's as though you feel threatened by the number of black, Latino and Asian people in the world.

    If you perform a simple google search you'll find that Africa as a continent emits the least greenhouse gases in the world.
    If you're looking to carry out genocide in the places that are supposedly contributing the most to greenhouse emission start with the USA and Europe.

    And how do you know measures aren't being taken to switch to more sustainable energy in Africa, Asia and the Middle East? In Nigeria, the country that you seem to know the most about, the current presidency's first order of business is to diversify away from petroleum and into renewable energy because of falling oil prices. You wouldn't believe how much the message to go green is being pushed here. Even before then, many towns and cities in not only Nigeria but a good part of west Africa are powered by hydro electricity because of the abundance of rivers in the area.


    Population control isn't non existent in these countries either. China has taken great steps to reduce their population to a more sustainable level and many other countries will follow suit. Believe it or not, the developing world is in fact developing. Europe isn't the only place in the world with civilisation.
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    What sensationalist fear mongering
    You are ridiculous.
    You can have whatever opinion you like but you won't be free from criticism.

    So you think to prevent the genocide of 'humanity' and by humanity you mean white people, it's best to carry out a genocide on specific continents you believe aren't 'up to scratch' ?
    It's as though you feel threatened by the number of black, Latino and Asian people in the world.

    If you perform a simple google search you'll find that Africa as a continent emits the least greenhouse gases in the world.
    If you're looking to carry out genocide in the places that are supposedly contributing the most to greenhouse emission start with the USA and Europe.

    And how do you know measures aren't being taken to switch to more sustainable energy in Africa, Asia and the Middle East? In Nigeria, the country that you seem to know the most about, the current presidency's first order of business is to diversify away from petroleum and into renewable energy because of falling oil prices. You wouldn't believe how much the message to go green is being pushed here. Even before then, many towns and cities in not only Nigeria but a good part of west Africa are powered by hydro electricity because of the abundance of rivers in the area.


    Population control isn't non existent in these countries either. China has taken great steps to reduce their population to a more sustainable level and many other countries will follow suit. Believe it or not, the developing world is in fact developing. Europe isn't the only place in the world with civilisation.
    All I'm saying is that the population growth forecast to take place in Africa is unsustainable and will impoverish the entire world while failing to raise African development to international levels. The international community should act, by force if necessary, to prevent what will be the world's most devastating humanitarian crisis ever conceived. Of course there shouldn't be a genocide against Africans, but it's simply wrong to facilitate the unsustainable population growth of an entire continent. Especially one that is remains comparatively undeveloped and will still lack the necessary infrastructure in 50 years time. The oppression of other Africans by the African middle class has led to this situation I'm afraid.
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    - Islam needs to be condemned for the hate-filled religion that it is;
    - Animals are equal to human beings;
    - It is not OK to be fat.
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    [QUOTE=lahorizon;63330983]Child benefits should not be paid for more than 1 child./QUOTE]

    YES!
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    I keep my unpopular opinions very firmly to myself and given there is no option to post anonymously on this thread, all I will say is: yes, I do have a few unpopular opinions.
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    (Original post by humanteaparty)
    I believe the UK should adopt a 2 child policy (it will solve our problems)
    Except our population doesn't grow currently without migrants and it is the same all over Europe.

    Limiting births is a none European issue.

    Glad I could sort out that belief for you


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    I look forward to the day when all life on earth gets absorbed into a semi unified super consciousness.

    Mistreatment of animals should be treated as mistreatment of children.

    Meat production should be illegal in most countries.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    - Islam needs to be condemned for the hate-filled religion that it is;
    - Animals are equal to human beings;
    - It is not OK to be fat.
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    (Original post by ckingalt)
    The world's debt is unsustainable, and that means it will eventually be defaulted. No qualified economists can explain to me what the world looks like when that happens, and that means the reality is unfathomable. Common citizens from developed nations will struggle for their very survival in a visceral way that they have never experienced. This will occur in our immediate future.
    "The world's debt", I'm guessing you mean national debts? As of course, world debt =0, thats the idea of debt. National debts are high at the moment as we have just come out of a strong recession and governments are still trying to stimulate the economies. Most countries are now aiming for a budget surplus to start eroding away at national debt.

    Many countries are running a budget surplus at the moment and more will be joining, as long as there is a budget surplus countries can honour the interest repayments on national debt. Hence, they will not default. That's why economists can't give you answer, its so unlikely and imaginary that they haven't given it thought.
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    (Original post by farm_ecology)
    i look forward to the day when all life on earth gets absorbed into a semi unified super consciousness.

    Mistreatment of animals should be treated as mistreatment of children.

    Meat production should be illegal in most countries.
    t
    f
    f

    imo
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    1. The UK (and everyone else) should have free trade with the world.

    2. Freedom of speech should be absolute (no hate speech laws, no censorship whatsoever)

    3. Universities should charge full tuition fees to everyone and British/EU students should compete with international, non-EU students for places. Graduates should not be subsidised by non-graduates.

    4. Muslims or whoever else (I mention Muslims 'cos right now it's in vogue to dislike them) ought to be free to raise their children as they see fit. The state should make sure that they comply with the laws of the country (so no child abuse or neglect, etc) like everyone else but it should leave parents to instil in their children values which a majority of people in the country might dislike. E.g. that there is only one God and his name is Allah or that women should stay in the kitchen or that men are failures if they don't make millions or that astrology really has predictive powers. Anything that does not constitute a crime according to the laws of the UK. In short, I favour cultural liberalism, the kind of liberalism that makes Western Europe distinctive and not another Oriental, conformist, despotic culture.

    5. I favour liberal immigration policies to the extent that I think any non-criminal person who wishes to find and can find work in the UK and who complies with the laws of the land, should be able to move to the UK. That still leaves room for some regulation but I find it ludicrous that a Canadian dentist or an Indian software engineer find it impossible to migrate to the UK as though they pose some great security threat or, worse, as though really privileged British engineers and dentists should be protected from international competition. Perhaps in extreme cases where national security really is at threat, the state can interfere but it will have to present a really, really strong case for interference. Not merely that a person's religion or ethnic group is suspect.

    6. All drugs should be legal to use, prostitution should also be legal, as should all kinds of pornographic activity between consenting adults.

    Tbh almost all my points boil down to a simple principle: the state should not prohibit any acts between consenting adults. Thank you, Robert.

    I have many more but I think 3,4 and 5 amount to national treachery according to many people.
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    (Original post by Justmoll28)
    HAHAHAHAHA mate, I've done all four?
    Good for you. If I wasn't allowed to drive until 21 I would not be able to do any of them, and would be pretty much stuck at home all day doing not a lot. So you can understand my dislike at the promotion of a higher driving age, especially when the safety arguments for it are weak.

    Do you by any chance live in a city with good public transport?
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    I think this country peaked politically in about 1710.
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    (Original post by SophieSmall)
    That is so oddly specific and confusing.
    lol, I meant music that the restaurants play themselves because most of the time is just too loud.

    (Original post by morgan8002)
    They use plastics that don't break down due to sunlight or exposure to water. They tend to have shelf lives of years so do you think they'd use a material that will degrade to give off toxic chemicals in the short term?

    They do deform a bit but I don't see why this is a problem. You can just push that bit out from the inside to get the shape back. You won't lose the cap if you keep it with the bottle. Probably someone does, I tend to accidentally leave them in lectures etc. after about 6 weeks.

    Glass bottles might last longer, depending on how the glass is shielded from damage They will also be more costly individually to produce, both to the consumer and to the environment. Whether they are better or worse in terms of money or the environment depends on how prone you are to break or lose them. Water fountains already exist so I'm not sure what you want to change in that respect.


    I didn't see the "not" in your original post, sorry.


    Ok.
    I live in London and I have never seen a water fountain anywhere but at school. I was saying put water fountains on streets to people can fill up their bottles.
    Also glass water bottles are quite cheap and much cheaper than constantly buying plastic water bottles. It is great that you use your plastic bottles for 6 weeks although I would no recommend it because yes chemicals can and do leach into your water if in the sun or similar. Not everyone is like you and the vast majority of people that I know buy one/two plastic bottles a day. It is much more cost efficient also to buy a glass bottle probably like £5 which is roughly 8 plastic water bottles bought from Tesco. Therefore, it is definitely cheaper... Even Voss water has a glass bottle and that water is only like £1.50 or something?

    Also, glass water bottles more costly to the environment?? Urm ok. Sure.

    Your response to me overall is very illogical and incorrect. Glass bottles are 100 times better than plastic, many people use them only once hence why the shelves at Tesco are always full with new bottles, losing the cap is quite easy and there are not water fountains everywhere at all.
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    (Original post by Sisuphos)
    1. The UK (and everyone else) should have free trade with the world.

    2. Freedom of speech should be absolute (no hate speech laws, no censorship whatsoever)

    3. Universities should charge full tuition fees to everyone and British/EU students should compete with international, non-EU students for places. Graduates should not be subsidised by non-graduates.

    4. Muslims or whoever else (I mention Muslims 'cos right now it's in vogue to dislike them) ought to be free to raise their children as they see fit. The state should make sure that they comply with the laws of the country (so no child abuse or neglect, etc) like everyone else but it should leave parents to instil in their children values which a majority of people in the country might dislike. E.g. that there is only one God and his name is Allah or that women should stay in the kitchen or that men are failures if they don't make millions or that astrology really has predictive powers. Anything that does not constitute a crime according to the laws of the UK. In short, I favour cultural liberalism, the kind of liberalism that makes Western Europe distinctive and not another Oriental, conformist, despotic culture.

    5. I favour liberal immigration policies to the extent that I think any non-criminal person who wishes to find and can find work in the UK and who complies with the laws of the land, should be able to move to the UK. That still leaves room for some regulation but I find it ludicrous that a Canadian dentist or an Indian software engineer find it impossible to migrate to the UK as though they pose some great security threat or, worse, as though really privileged British engineers and dentists should be protected from international competition. Perhaps in extreme cases where national security really is at threat, the state can interfere but it will have to present a really, really strong case for interference. Not merely that a person's religion or ethnic group is suspect.

    6. All drugs should be legal to use, prostitution should also be legal, as should all kinds of pornographic activity between consenting adults.

    Tbh almost all my points boil down to a simple principle: the state should not prohibit any acts between consenting adults. Thank you, Robert.

    I have many more but I think 3,4 and 5 amount to national treachery according to many people.
    I would say I am mostly OK with 1, 4, 5 and 6. I'd possibly let 2 ride with the caveat that your remarks should be attributable to you. If you are going to be truly horrible about someone or something, they should be able to know who said it. Maybe just increasing the strictness of libel and slander laws would fix this. 3 I will question when it comes to degrees that can generally be agreed to lead to roles that are essential to our society but usually not well paid such as social work, teaching, nursing etc.
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    (Original post by Roofas)
    All I'm saying is that the population growth forecast to take place in Africa is unsustainable and will impoverish the entire world while failing to raise African development to international levels. The international community should act, by force if necessary, to prevent what will be the world's most devastating humanitarian crisis ever conceived. Of course there shouldn't be a genocide against Africans, but it's simply wrong to facilitate the unsustainable population growth of an entire continent. Especially one that is remains comparatively undeveloped and will still lack the necessary infrastructure in 50 years time. The oppression of other Africans by the African middle class has led to this situation I'm afraid.
    Who lied to you and said they will lack the infrastructure in 50 years? England only around 50 years ago was devastated by war and look at it now? You're being very illogical and the @StrawbAri replied perfectly to you.

    Also stop with the sensationalist language like the phrase I made bold.

    Impoverish the entire world? You mean the West because if you meant the entire world then that doesn't fit your agenda since Asia, Africa, South America and Central America are the places left to develop leaving just Europe, North America and Australasia which are developed- which by coincidence is also all the places where white people live... hmmm
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    Skiiny jeans should be banned
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)

    A quick death is better than a slow decline. It's why I plan on going out Roman Bath style as soon as I'm too old to look after myself.
    If you were too old to loom after yourself, how are you going to run the bath?
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    (Original post by Roofas)
    All I'm saying is that the population growth forecast to take place in Africa is unsustainable and will impoverish the entire world while failing to raise African development to international levels. The international community should act, by force if necessary, to prevent what will be the world's most devastating humanitarian crisis ever conceived. Of course there shouldn't be a genocide against Africans, but it's simply wrong to facilitate the unsustainable population growth of an entire continent. Especially one that is remains comparatively undeveloped and will still lack the necessary infrastructure in 50 years time. The oppression of other Africans by the African middle class has led to this situation I'm afraid.



    The maybe it will interest you to know that just this morning, on the news, it was announced that the big wigs in Nigeria's finance ministry are looking into ways to counter a population boom if one happens. The disadvantage a population boom would cause would be the country not being able to export anymore as all products produced would be consumed by the large populace. I don't see how this would affect any other countries aside from the few west African countries that rely on our exports.
    As for the rest of Africa, if the bigger economies on the continent start taking steps to managing a more sustainable population then the rest will follow suit. The AU exists for a reason.

    Plus Nigeria is predicted to join the world's top 20 economies by 2020/30 so development definitely is happening.

    Anyway, sorry if I sounded aggressive in my first post.
 
 
 
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