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Have we learned from Trump and Brexit?

I can't see that we have. The remain campaign is continuing to pursue Brexit through the courts. Parties/activists on the left don't seem to have changed course or ideology.

Or should Trump and Brexit just be considered anomalies?

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Reply 1

Mekkiii

Well that mtv video shows that some people still ignorant to why people dont follow their belief system

Reply 2

Nirvana1989-1994

That sometimes life sucks serious s**t

Reply 3

Bang Outta Order

wat the **** do trump and brexit have to do with each other
not even the same bloody countries

Reply 4

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by 0to100

wat the **** do trump and brexit have to do with each other
not even the same bloody countries

Not being the same country means **** all really - trumps rise and the Brexit vote have a lot more complexity than just this, but at the heart of both is a disillusionment with 21st century politics and a sentiment of feeling let down and left behind by policies that have overwhelmingly favoured the cities.

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Reply 5

Len Goodman

No, they are not anomalies. They represent the start of a right-wing surge all throughout the Western world, and I for one can't wait for it.

Reply 6

anarchism101

Strangely enough I'm one of the few who thinks the two are qualitatively different in significant ways:

i) Brexit actually won a clear majority of the vote. Trump, by contrast, was the less popular option who won by a quirk of the electoral process.
ii) There is genuine evidence to suggest some sort of correlation between lower income and pro-Brexit sentiment. With Trump, on the other hand, the opposite was true - those on lower incomes were less likely to vote Trump.

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Reply 7

The Joker ~

No not yet~

It's too early when things turn sour when we shall regret,,, lessons shall be learnt years later..

it's how things work sadly~

Reply 8

EdwardBarfield9

The far left should have learned that insulting a large group of people as an attempt to try and get more to vote for their side does the exact opposite of what they intended.

Reply 9

StrawbAri

Original post by Len Goodman

No, they are not anomalies. They represent the start of a right-wing surge all throughout the Western world, and I for one can't wait for it.

Lol why?
Wouldn't it be better to want a more centrist government that isn't biased to any one side and works to meet to needs of all members of society equally?
Anyway
Trump isn't all that right wing. A lot of the things he said was pandering to a certain demographic.
Brexit hasn't got any thing to do with left or right wing politics as quite a few right wingers voted remain and some left wingers voted leave.

Reply 10

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by EdwardBarfield9

The far left should have learned that insulting a large group of people as an attempt to try and get more to vote for their side does the exact opposite of what they intended.

A fair chunk of the far left tend to be eurosceptic so that's pretty meaningless when it comes to the brexit vote. The extremes of both wings lean eurosceptic (although for massively different reasons) while the centrists tended to be the loudest remain voices.

Reply 11

MagicNMedicine

Original post by Iridocyclitis

The remain campaign is continuing to pursue Brexit through the courts.

They are checking whether the government is following the rules laid out in British law.

If you can't respect British laws....why are you still here? The vote was in June so plenty of time to have ****ed off if you don't like our laws.

Reply 12

Samonia

There's no point moping about what has happened, rather we need to consider why these events have taken place. Trump and Brexit have happened, we need to look to the future to see if the French and German elections are going to have similar results. What is the cause of the discontent thats caused the political and social shift and how can it be rectified. People don't just do things with no reason. there must be something underlying it and that must be located in order to change things. If people put half the energy in to trying to work out the problem and fixing it rather than complaining about things that can't be changed, we would get a lot further, a lot faster.

Reply 13

MagicNMedicine

Original post by Samonia

What is the cause of the discontent thats caused the political and social shift and how can it be rectified. People don't just do things with no reason. there must be something underlying it and that must be located in order to change things. If people put half the energy in to trying to work out the problem and fixing it rather than complaining about things that can't be changed, we would get a lot further, a lot faster.

Rising inequality and the realisation that globalisation and free markets have not delivered gains for all. They have delivered gains for those at the top but most people have seen their wages stagnate and access to housing and public services restricted. The elites at the top used to talk about "trickle-down economics" ie if the rich got richer the wealth would trickle down, but it only trickles down to their own children. For a while this was masked because easy credit was available so a generation was able to borrow beyond their means to get houses, and then house prices boomed so much that it was a bet that paid off, but the next generation are now locked out of the housing market and destined to work harder and harder to pay rent to the generation that got lucky.

Also in the early days of the move towards greater free trade and globalisation, the idea was that it would lead to overall gains but there would be some winners and losers (ie those whose jobs were outsourced or lost due to import competition or immgrant labour or automation). A progressive taxation system to fund public services would mitigate the effect on the losers of globalisation and help share the gains of the winners around. But recent politics has been targeted at slashing those services and blaming the losers of globalisation for their own plight whilst ensuring the winners took a bigger and bigger share for themselves.

Sensing rising discontent the elites then needed to distract people from seeing what was really happening and so looked to divide the losers of globalisation by turning them against each other, eg those who managed to find work but were on low pay, turned against those who were out of work 'scroungers' or migrants that had been let in to their labour market (again in the name of the wonderful 'free markets' that would lead to 'trickle-down' wealth). So the current backlash is against migrants which explains Brexit and Trump.

However this will only last so long, because the Conservative Brexit government is, lets face it, not going to tackle the problems. It is not even starting to try to tackle the problems of social inequality that have arisen from the failures of globalisation, it is not even starting to try and tackle the housing problem. Yes they will take us out of the EU and might impose migration controls but when they start looking to strike trade deals with the USA, China and India watch how eagerly they look to replace EU free markets with opening all the UK economy to competition from huge foreign countries that will be able to undercut us and drive wages down further.

Same with Trump in the USA, he isn't going to make life better for those left behind by globalisation. All he will do is posture aggressively against Muslims, China, send non-politically correct tweets and play at being an unconventional politician willing to say provocative things and talk about how great he is.

All this time people whose lives are getting steadily worse will be getting more and more angry and when there aren't as many immigrants around to blame how will the elites escape the blame then....?

Reply 14

username1921011

Original post by 0to100

wat the **** do trump and brexit have to do with each other
not even the same bloody countries

Simple, a rejection of globalism and the perceived disdain for the poor by the establishment, their lack of engagement and willingness to listen - the disenfranchisement. Brexit and Trump promised to address the issues of people being too poor to live a decent quality of life, the issue of people being shouted down as racist and bigoted every time they disagree with the government and the upper middle class news media (see the guardian opinion page for examples of this) and people voted for the lesser evil. The British government got it wrong, they wouldn't shut up about the economy but nobody gave a sh!t because that wasn't what concerned them as much as the fact they have to work ten hour days, or get two jobs, to make enough money to buy a mortgage if it becomes available by chance and to try and feed and clothe their kids who they hardly ever see due to exhaustion etc etc. When they said 'house prices will drop' as a negative consequence of brexit the poorer people went 'brilliant I might have a chance of buying one now'. The government haven't a clue and it shows.

Trump was partially this (he promised to bring industry back to America and to combat poverty), he spoke his mind, he wasn't scared to address thorny topics and importantly he wasn't Hillary Clinton, a corrupt, dangerous, compulsive liar who has no morals (silenced Bill's rape victims and laughed in court when she got a child molester acquitted) and no tactic is too low (see the podesta emails) including suspected deleting of emails and hard drives pertinent to an FBI investigation. She then accused Russia of leaking the emails and interfering with the election - as in 'how dare you inform the electorate?'. This disdain for voters is exactly what voters, brexit and trump alike have had enough of.

Reply 15

Jammy Duel

The fact they happened in the first place shows they didn't learn, the ideas are hardly new, they've just been dismissed and laughed at by the left for years.

Reply 16

Bang Outta Order

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

a sentiment of feeling let down and left behind by policies that have overwhelmingly favoured the cities.

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Nah. Speak for yaself.

Reply 17

username2965904

I'm to sure we have learnt either.

Reply 18

alcibiade

It's too early to say. Sure, lefties are re-thinking things, but the groups that voted these things in are exultant. I fear that we will learn the lessons only when it is too late.