Why do people with mental illnesses have children?
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Original post by RockyDennis
If you're saying it's debilitating then yes you shouldn't have kids. Just like people with Treacher Collins shouldn't. LMFAO at dice rolling 50/50 whether a kid is going to have a torturous existence or not. ****ing selfish. Disgraceful.
And no, once again social anxiety can't be managed. If you have social anxiety disorder life has ended for you. You will ALWAYS have it at least a little bit. ONLY MDMA removes it for a little while until the effects wear off. MAOIs are life ruining in and of themselves and only work a bit. You'll never be normal. It's a terminal mental illness and your life is over the second it hits you.
And no, once again social anxiety can't be managed. If you have social anxiety disorder life has ended for you. You will ALWAYS have it at least a little bit. ONLY MDMA removes it for a little while until the effects wear off. MAOIs are life ruining in and of themselves and only work a bit. You'll never be normal. It's a terminal mental illness and your life is over the second it hits you.
that is 100% untrue... I had severe social anxiety at school and nearly had to be removed from mainstream education into a special school as a result... I am now a happy and functioning adult... OK I still struggle a bit with anixety but it's 100% under control and I am very happy with my life
as for your original question:
1. they may have kids prior to knowing about their mental health
2. there's no proof mental health is genetic - just cos it runs in families doesn't prove anything, it can be learnt behaviour
3. people may be happy despite their condition in which case it's reasonable to think their kids can also be happy
4. they may feel that by managing any condition early it can be treated well
5. they may feel that other circumstances caused their mental health problems (e.g. abuse, bullying) and they can avoid those things with their own kids
6. they may get pregnant by accident
Original post by RockyDennis
Anxiety disorders and many other mental illnesses have STRONG hereditary components which has been proven through lots of research. Some mental illnesses like social anxiety disorder are literally life-ending and might as well be terminal diseases.
My grandad had panic disorder, and my dad, and now I get panic attacks also. Panic disorder isn't life-ending like social anxiety is, but still.
People seem to only focus on the physical things they are passing on (but for some reason still have kids even when they have like Treacher Collins wtf is wrong with people?) and forget completely that they're also passing down their brain.
Do you think people with bad mental health problems should have children?
My grandad had panic disorder, and my dad, and now I get panic attacks also. Panic disorder isn't life-ending like social anxiety is, but still.
People seem to only focus on the physical things they are passing on (but for some reason still have kids even when they have like Treacher Collins wtf is wrong with people?) and forget completely that they're also passing down their brain.
Do you think people with bad mental health problems should have children?
I have suffered from social anxiety and it came about as a result of my strict upbringing. My dad was really horrible and would beat me to a pulp for misbehaving like normal children do. He's also very vain and so liked to impression manage to other adults and friends. It meant i would get a hiding if I stepped out of line, whether knowingly or not knowingly stepped out of line.
Neither him or my mum have anxiety or any obvious mental health disorder. If anything I would say my dad has narcissistic tendencies, which are quite common in our normal functioning society.
I'm finding your argument simple. Mental health issues can have a genetic disposition, but environmental factors also play a huge part. Ironically, we are watching my older brother who has never had a mental health diagnosis bringing up his daughter. He's bringing her up in a very similar way to how my dad brought us up, he's very controlling like my dad. He doesn't beat her up as it's obviously against the law, but he's controlling and she's a highly strung child. It's really heartbreaking to see as he's affecting her emotional development.
Mental health issues can be passed down due to social learning.
(edited 6 years ago)
I do get what you're saying, I have at similar feelings about mental illness being passed onto me, and it is a real challenge to get through life with them.
Some people definitely do have children for selfish reasons, I think that's particularly the case when people haven't sorted themselves out in life, and feel like there's something missing so they have children to fill something in their life, or they try to live out the people they want to be through their children, and don't give their children freedom to be who they are and do what they want to do. That is definitely selfish.
I do get the feeling that some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids, because they just can't commit to all the sacrifices, or they literally aren't able to.
But then at the same time, you can look at certain situations differently. For example, even though conditions such as depression and anxiety can be extremely crippling at certain points in a person's life, it's not like they can't be treated to alleviate them, and a lot of people do learn to deal with such issues in their own ways... not everyone unfortunately, but there are people who learn to alleviate their mental health conditions, even though they might return at later points in the person's life, people can definitely get better at managing them through therapy, exercise, medications, and other more personal solutions, so it's not like a person who has mental illness has a wasted life. Often it makes for a very enriched person because they can really empathise with others and have really questioned everything so they sort of have to re-learn everything. It depends entirely on the person though. Personally I do feel I have suffered a lot due to things out of my control, but things definitely can change with time and I do feel more self confident now and more able to deal with the challenges of life, slowly and gradually have these changes come about. (Don't want to jinx anything hahaha but I do have faith that both myself and others can become more in control of their issues).
I think there is always an element of selfishness in having children, because the person will gain companionship and someone to rely on, but at the same time, if the parents do their job right, they give one hell of a lot too. For example, in the image you posted above of the physical disability, I guess the guy has faith that he has managed to have a good quality of life despite the condition he inherited, and that he has overcome struggles to get them. I bet those parents view their child as perfect regardless and in many cases, such parents are able to really support their children. I have seen people with such physical hereditary conditions say that their parents have literally been rocks for them growing up, and they have really fulfilled lives. For example this woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62Aqdlzvqk
Definitely when you have an illness, mental or physical, you can often feel powerless or trapped for ages, like things will never change, but people prove time and time again that that's just not true. The strength of the human resolve is very powerful, I do believe that.
Some people definitely do have children for selfish reasons, I think that's particularly the case when people haven't sorted themselves out in life, and feel like there's something missing so they have children to fill something in their life, or they try to live out the people they want to be through their children, and don't give their children freedom to be who they are and do what they want to do. That is definitely selfish.
I do get the feeling that some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids, because they just can't commit to all the sacrifices, or they literally aren't able to.
But then at the same time, you can look at certain situations differently. For example, even though conditions such as depression and anxiety can be extremely crippling at certain points in a person's life, it's not like they can't be treated to alleviate them, and a lot of people do learn to deal with such issues in their own ways... not everyone unfortunately, but there are people who learn to alleviate their mental health conditions, even though they might return at later points in the person's life, people can definitely get better at managing them through therapy, exercise, medications, and other more personal solutions, so it's not like a person who has mental illness has a wasted life. Often it makes for a very enriched person because they can really empathise with others and have really questioned everything so they sort of have to re-learn everything. It depends entirely on the person though. Personally I do feel I have suffered a lot due to things out of my control, but things definitely can change with time and I do feel more self confident now and more able to deal with the challenges of life, slowly and gradually have these changes come about. (Don't want to jinx anything hahaha but I do have faith that both myself and others can become more in control of their issues).
I think there is always an element of selfishness in having children, because the person will gain companionship and someone to rely on, but at the same time, if the parents do their job right, they give one hell of a lot too. For example, in the image you posted above of the physical disability, I guess the guy has faith that he has managed to have a good quality of life despite the condition he inherited, and that he has overcome struggles to get them. I bet those parents view their child as perfect regardless and in many cases, such parents are able to really support their children. I have seen people with such physical hereditary conditions say that their parents have literally been rocks for them growing up, and they have really fulfilled lives. For example this woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c62Aqdlzvqk
Definitely when you have an illness, mental or physical, you can often feel powerless or trapped for ages, like things will never change, but people prove time and time again that that's just not true. The strength of the human resolve is very powerful, I do believe that.
Original post by doodle_333
that is 100% untrue... I had severe social anxiety at school and nearly had to be removed from mainstream education into a special school as a result... I am now a happy and functioning adult... OK I still struggle a bit with anixety but it's 100% under control and I am very happy with my life
as for your original question:
1. they may have kids prior to knowing about their mental health
2. there's no proof mental health is genetic - just cos it runs in families doesn't prove anything, it can be learnt behaviour
3. people may be happy despite their condition in which case it's reasonable to think their kids can also be happy
4. they may feel that by managing any condition early it can be treated well
5. they may feel that other circumstances caused their mental health problems (e.g. abuse, bullying) and they can avoid those things with their own kids
6. they may get pregnant by accident
as for your original question:
1. they may have kids prior to knowing about their mental health
2. there's no proof mental health is genetic - just cos it runs in families doesn't prove anything, it can be learnt behaviour
3. people may be happy despite their condition in which case it's reasonable to think their kids can also be happy
4. they may feel that by managing any condition early it can be treated well
5. they may feel that other circumstances caused their mental health problems (e.g. abuse, bullying) and they can avoid those things with their own kids
6. they may get pregnant by accident
Yes exactly you still "struggle a bit with anxiety". You can't ever be normal. Like many people with disabilities you can function enough to be "happy" given the circumstances you're faced with, but you'll never be able to be normal or live life like a normal person can. Social anxiety is one of the most debilitating illnesses on Earth since social interaction is just about the only thing that makes life worthwhile. You might as well have "Oxygen Anxiety Disorder" or "Happiness Anxiety Disorder".
Perhaps with MAOI medication you could be normal (maybe), but if you used those you'd likely die one day from accidentally eating a sausage.
There are very strong genetic links with mental illness. Certain chromosomes and genes have been isolated for many mental illnesses like agoraphobia etc. For social anxiety, it's the SLC6A4 gene.
Original post by RockyDennis
Yeah I'm sure you do but you're obviously a ****ing idiot living in some fairyland idealistic world. Jono is a selfish man who knowngly created a life that would endure nothing but suffering in this world. All because of his own selfish desires to be a father.
You're legitimately retarded if you think it's good to create a life that you know is very likely going to have horrific disabilities.
You're legitimately retarded if you think it's good to create a life that you know is very likely going to have horrific disabilities.
Jono isn’t a father......
So how far do you extend your plans then for a perfect human? Where would you like to draw the line?
Who are you to say if a life is fulfilling or not?
Original post by RockyDennis
Social anxiety is one of the most debilitating illnesses on Earth.
It's not.
I've lived with some serious medical problems, thankfully, I grew out of one. That one, kills some people. I've got no idea if one will leave me blind. I will be "lucky" if it just leaves me partially sighted and colour blind.
Both of those conditions are genetic.
Original post by Sammylou40
Jono isn’t a father......
So how far do you extend your plans then for a perfect human? Where would you like to draw the line?
Who are you to say if a life is fulfilling or not?
So how far do you extend your plans then for a perfect human? Where would you like to draw the line?
Who are you to say if a life is fulfilling or not?
I just assumed the baby was his... Jono has suffered a lot in life. I've seen the documentary about him. His own parents abandoned him at the hospital because of his disability and refuse to ever see him. If he didn't have the girl he's with he'd probably be a destroyed man. And even then I don't really like the way his girlfriend talks to/about him either sometimes at certain parts of that documentary.
Simply put, anyone with severely debilitating hereditary disabilities (mental or physical) should never be allowed to have children. A lot of people have their problems, but you know when something is really devastating and when something is just a bit of an annoying quirk.
Sperm banks won't accept your sperm if you have a bad disability or inherited disorder.
Original post by RockyDennis
Yes, anyone who has a hereditary debilitating illness and has children is selfish:
Such a selfish ******* that he knowingly condemned a human life to an existence with a horrific disease just to get his rocks off and fulfill his self-centered desires.
Of course this is a physical disability. But some mental illnesses are every bit as debilitating while also being hereditary.
Such a selfish ******* that he knowingly condemned a human life to an existence with a horrific disease just to get his rocks off and fulfill his self-centered desires.
Of course this is a physical disability. But some mental illnesses are every bit as debilitating while also being hereditary.
You sound like a horrible person.
Ever heard the saying, when life throws lemons at you, make lemonade? No one ever said life should be easy. I've seen very successful and thriving people with mental illness and/or disabilities. Your mental health difficulty should not limit you.
Your outlook sounds very selfish. In life, we must learn to look outwardly. There is someone who probably has a worse deal than us. We should be grateful for what we have been given.
Have you considered therapy? Reliance on anxiety drugs and/or antidepressants is a vicious cycle and I've seen people getting destroyed by over-reliance.
Have you considered volunteering to help others who might be in a worse position to you? Stepping out of ourselves can offer us new perspectives.
I've also noticed that people who let their mental health difficulties define them, never seem to get better. It's like they find their identity in their mental illness. I think it's really sad and I try not to let my past define my present or my future.
Original post by RockyDennis
Yes exactly you still "struggle a bit with anxiety". You can't ever be normal. Like many people with disabilities you can function enough to be "happy" given the circumstances you're faced with, but you'll never be able to be normal or live life like a normal person can. Social anxiety is one of the most debilitating illnesses on Earth since social interaction is just about the only thing that makes life worthwhile. You might as well have "Oxygen Anxiety Disorder" or "Happiness Anxiety Disorder".
Perhaps with MAOI medication you could be normal (maybe), but if you used those you'd likely die one day from accidentally eating a sausage.
There are very strong genetic links with mental illness. Certain chromosomes and genes have been isolated for many mental illnesses like agoraphobia etc. For social anxiety, it's the SLC6A4 gene.
Perhaps with MAOI medication you could be normal (maybe), but if you used those you'd likely die one day from accidentally eating a sausage.
There are very strong genetic links with mental illness. Certain chromosomes and genes have been isolated for many mental illnesses like agoraphobia etc. For social anxiety, it's the SLC6A4 gene.
Who wants to be normal anyway? And what is normal, for that matter? The more I go through life the more I see that people are extraordinarily peculiar, even if they keep it quiet. And the ones who aren't peculiar are most often so rigidly normal that it appears bizarre. There is no normal, in reality.
Sure you can define normal in terms of the things people do like go to parties or socialise, but at the end of the day, some people don't like doing that. Some people are different. And that's fine. They just need to find their own ways to be happy, as you say. They don't need to do what everyone else does.
Everyone should just do whatever it takes to cope and feel good in themselves. That's good enough. **** normal lol.
I think if you feel this strongly about your anxiety you should look into cognitive or dialectical or mindfulness therapy, there are lots of tested approaches people can use to better deal with better and overcome their conditions. Honestly, I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't been through the phase of hopelessness you now seem to be in. There are also a lot of techniques such as breathing exercises, which I have used to help me overcome panic attacks and anxiety, and exercising and being active really does help. I really don't think a life with anxiety is wasted and I'm really sorry if you feel that way right now
Original post by RockyDennis
I just assumed the baby was his... Jono has suffered a lot in life. I've seen the documentary about him. His own parents abandoned him at the hospital because of his disability and refuse to ever see him. If he didn't have the girl he's with he'd probably be a destroyed man. And even then I don't really like the way his girlfriend talks to/about him either sometimes at certain parts of that documentary.
Simply put, anyone with severely debilitating hereditary disabilities (mental or physical) should never be allowed to have children. A lot of people have their problems, but you know when something is really devastating and when something is just a bit of an annoying quirk.
Sperm banks won't accept your sperm if you have a bad disability or inherited disorder.
Simply put, anyone with severely debilitating hereditary disabilities (mental or physical) should never be allowed to have children. A lot of people have their problems, but you know when something is really devastating and when something is just a bit of an annoying quirk.
Sperm banks won't accept your sperm if you have a bad disability or inherited disorder.
That isn’t even him in the photo
He lives near me. And he is a wonderful guy.
You can’t make judgements on people without knowing them
Original post by RockyDennis
Yes, anyone who has a hereditary debilitating illness and has children is selfish:
Such a selfish ******* that he knowingly condemned a human life to an existence with a horrific disease just to get his rocks off and fulfill his self-centered desires.
Of course this is a physical disability. But some mental illnesses are every bit as debilitating while also being hereditary.
Such a selfish ******* that he knowingly condemned a human life to an existence with a horrific disease just to get his rocks off and fulfill his self-centered desires.
Of course this is a physical disability. But some mental illnesses are every bit as debilitating while also being hereditary.
To be honest, they look like very happy people.
Maybe you could learn something from them.
they're mentally ill therefore not in control of their actions duh
Original post by Fruli
You sound like a horrible person.
Ever heard the saying, when life throws lemons at you, make lemonade? No one ever said life should be easy. I've seen very successful and thriving people with mental illness and/or disabilities. Your mental health difficulty should not limit you.
Your outlook sounds very selfish. In life, we must learn to look outwardly. There is someone who probably has a worse deal than us. We should be grateful for what we have been given.
Have you considered therapy? Reliance on anxiety drugs and/or antidepressants is a vicious cycle and I've seen people getting destroyed by over-reliance.
Have you considered volunteering to help others who might be in a worse position to you? Stepping out of ourselves can offer us new perspectives.
I've also noticed that people who let their mental health difficulties define them, never seem to get better. It's like they find their identity in their mental illness. I think it's really sad and I try not to let my past define my present or my future.
Ever heard the saying, when life throws lemons at you, make lemonade? No one ever said life should be easy. I've seen very successful and thriving people with mental illness and/or disabilities. Your mental health difficulty should not limit you.
Your outlook sounds very selfish. In life, we must learn to look outwardly. There is someone who probably has a worse deal than us. We should be grateful for what we have been given.
Have you considered therapy? Reliance on anxiety drugs and/or antidepressants is a vicious cycle and I've seen people getting destroyed by over-reliance.
Have you considered volunteering to help others who might be in a worse position to you? Stepping out of ourselves can offer us new perspectives.
I've also noticed that people who let their mental health difficulties define them, never seem to get better. It's like they find their identity in their mental illness. I think it's really sad and I try not to let my past define my present or my future.
Please don't start with idealism because it pisses me off.
Selfish is creating severely disabled life for whom life will be an eternal struggle just because "hurr I want to be a father". Refusing to have children when you have bad hereditary conditions is just about the most selfless thing you can do. Overcoming the intense drive for parenthood to save someone from misery and suffering.
Should someone who has been sexually abused feel grateful just because they weren't also mutilated/murdered in the act like some others are? Just because people "have it worse" doesn't necessarily mean what you have is okay or something to be grateful for.
Original post by RockyDennis
Please don't start with idealism because it pisses me off.
Selfish is creating severely disabled life for whom life will be an eternal struggle just because "hurr I want to be a father". Refusing to have children when you have bad hereditary conditions is just about the most selfless thing you can do. Overcoming the intense drive for parenthood to save someone from misery and suffering.
Should someone who has been sexually abused feel grateful just because they weren't also mutilated/murdered in the act like some others are? Just because people "have it worse" doesn't necessarily mean what you have is okay or something to be grateful for.
Selfish is creating severely disabled life for whom life will be an eternal struggle just because "hurr I want to be a father". Refusing to have children when you have bad hereditary conditions is just about the most selfless thing you can do. Overcoming the intense drive for parenthood to save someone from misery and suffering.
Should someone who has been sexually abused feel grateful just because they weren't also mutilated/murdered in the act like some others are? Just because people "have it worse" doesn't necessarily mean what you have is okay or something to be grateful for.
I think a sentiment that was posted by someone earlier sums things up:
'You're probably a carrier for numerous conditions so I hope you're not planning to have kids if that's your attitude'.
If you are ever so fortunate to have a girlfriend (assuming you're heterosexual), I hope you aren't planning to have kids because you will definitely pass on your ailments. Your attitude says a lot.
If gay and end up adopting with your partner, you will still pass down your ailments. Please avoid adoption.
(edited 6 years ago)
Why do people with any disabilities have children? (Answer: because actually some conditions aren’t inherited and others can be monitored through pregnancy - Collins’ kid/s were produced through IVF and embryos with the lowest degree of his condition then selected for implantation)
Why do ugly people have children? (Answer: because they love their partner and looks aren’t everything)
Why do stupid people have children? (Answer: because once again there’s more to life than intelligence, and there’s no reason they couldn’t have a surprisingly bright kid, or even a less bright kid who’s happy and successful anyway)
Why do ugly people have children? (Answer: because they love their partner and looks aren’t everything)
Why do stupid people have children? (Answer: because once again there’s more to life than intelligence, and there’s no reason they couldn’t have a surprisingly bright kid, or even a less bright kid who’s happy and successful anyway)
Original post by Fruli
I think a sentiment that was posted by someone earlier sums things up:
'You're probably a carrier for numerous conditions so I hope you're not planning to have kids if that's your attitude'.
If you are ever so fortunate to have a girlfriend (assuming you're heterosexual), I hope you aren't planning to have kids because you will definitely pass on your ailments. Your attitude says a lot.
If gay and end up adopting with your partner, you will still pass down your ailments. Please avoid adoption.
'You're probably a carrier for numerous conditions so I hope you're not planning to have kids if that's your attitude'.
If you are ever so fortunate to have a girlfriend (assuming you're heterosexual), I hope you aren't planning to have kids because you will definitely pass on your ailments. Your attitude says a lot.
If gay and end up adopting with your partner, you will still pass down your ailments. Please avoid adoption.
Please avoid addressing me in this way in the future.
I'm a realistic man. That is all.
Conversely, you're the type of person who would have a child with dwarfism and refuse the NHS-offered HGH therapy, forcing him to live a life at 4'8 instead of normal height, due to some cuckold fairytale idealistic fantasy.
Original post by LRxS
At the end of the day, any seemingly healthy person can have severely mentally or physically disabled children because nature sucks. We start saying who can and can’t have kids and we turn into actual nazis.
Sperm banks say who can and can't have kids and their criteria is pretty bang on. No severe disabilities. No inherited mental disorders.
At a sperm bank the sperm is almost "fatherless", so it removes the "I just want to have kids!" human selfishness drive. And then we can view it rationally and think "okay well this sperm will likely pass on an incurable debilitating painful illness, so it probably shouldn't be used."
That's the ****ing RATIONAL thought. But the human selfishness overrides all rationality.
Original post by RockyDennis
Sperm banks say who can and can't have kids and their criteria is pretty bang on. No severe disabilities. No inherited mental disorders.
At a sperm bank the sperm is almost "fatherless", so it removes the "I just want to have kids!" human selfishness drive. And then we can view it rationally and think "okay well this sperm will likely pass on an incurable debilitating painful illness, so it probably shouldn't be used."
That's the ****ing RATIONAL thought. But the human selfishness overrides all rationality.
At a sperm bank the sperm is almost "fatherless", so it removes the "I just want to have kids!" human selfishness drive. And then we can view it rationally and think "okay well this sperm will likely pass on an incurable debilitating painful illness, so it probably shouldn't be used."
That's the ****ing RATIONAL thought. But the human selfishness overrides all rationality.
Aight cool cause people are going to stop having sex cause of ****ing sperm banks
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