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Is Equality Between the Two Genders Fair? watch

  • View Poll Results: Is Equality Fair?
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    Is equality between men and women, two biologically distinct groups, fair? Is it fair to expect the same outcomes from men and women when they have different strengths and limitations?

    ....Have you heard of any alternatives to equality? have you heard of equity?
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    Name:  EBE6C233-6041-45F6-8CCB-2C6894503145.jpg.jpeg
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    This sums it up pretty well.
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    I don't think equality works in all cases.

    Sometimes more needs to be done to help and protect vulnerable groups (and women) in society. In such cases, equity is more appropriate.

    Whereas in some other situations, such as the gender pay gap, I think equality is fair. Why should men who do the same jobs as women and have the same qualifications, get paid more?
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    Posting to sub.

    Will be a great thread.
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    No, we should not necessarily expect the same outcomes. The same opportunities should, of course, be available to both genders.

    Society appears to view it as a problem when women have worse outcomes than men (eg, in average salary), but not when men have worse outcomes than women (eg, in average life expectancy).
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    No, we should not necessarily expect the same outcomes. The same opportunities should, of course, be available to both genders.

    Society appears to view it as a problem when women have worse outcomes than men (eg, in average salary), but not when men have worse outcomes than women (eg, in average life expectancy).
    Tbf salary is a lot more tangible than life expectancy. Not like politicians can put “men will live longer” in a manifesto.. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    Is equality between men and women, two biologically distinct groups, fair? Is it fair to expect the same outcomes from men and women when they have different strengths and limitations?

    ....Have you heard of any alternatives to equality? have you heard of equity?
    Generally speaking, men and women are capable of the same things. Hence we should expect to see equal outcomes in an increasingly equal world.
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    Tbf salary is a lot more tangible than life expectancy. Not like politicians can put “men will live longer” in a manifesto.. :dontknow:
    Ehh, whilst I'm sure plenty would agree with you... I'm not 100% convinced.

    It's possible to question "why are men dying younger?", "What positive steps can we take to try to address this problem?", "Do men need specific targeted lifestyle measures to help with this?", "Should we be giving men specific health advice to try to reduce the inequality?" etc
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    Anything that is unequal really bugs me, in 2018 everything should be equal!
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Ehh, whilst I'm sure plenty would agree with you... I'm not 100% convinced.

    It's possible to question "why are men dying younger?", "What positive steps can we take to try to address this problem?", "Do men need specific targeted lifestyle measures to help with this?", "Should we be giving men specific health advice to try to reduce the inequality?" etc
    I’m not saying there isn’t something people can do about it, but I don’t see how it’s an inequality issue.

    However I am interested in why, i’ve heard that “married men live longer” thing which sounds a bit nuts. The prostate cancer stats in the news highlights some problems, I do think men being stubborn and not getting illness or discomfort checked is massively working against them! I know the men in my family are awful for only going to the doctors when they’re in deaths door.

    The suicide rates of men need to be addressed, and attitudes toward mental health in young men adjusted. It just feels a bit cold, to say “lets address mens life expectancy to reduce inequality” like we just care about the stats and not the actual quality of life of the people. Probably just me being soft.
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    I think the thread is a little vague. You say equality but equality with respect to what?
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    (Original post by euphrosyne)
    Whereas in some other situations, such as the gender pay gap, I think equality is fair. Why should men who do the same jobs as women and have the same qualifications, get paid more?
    Why should women negotiate less (on average) and leave a job to have kids, then return and expect the same salary as her male counterpart who has now got more experience?
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    Tbf salary is a lot more tangible than life expectancy. Not like politicians can put “men will live longer” in a manifesto.. :dontknow:
    Right but they can put:

    1. More funding for prostate cancer

    2. More help for homeless men

    3. More funding for male suicide prevention

    The list goes on...
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    Some mechanisms which aim to achieve equality of outcome, but do not force it, create socially optimal outcomes.

    For example, doing more to encourage women to enter STEM. I never really got why people are against this. As long as equality of opportunity is preserved (i.e. no positive discrimination), getting more women to apply for STEM subjects as opposed to arts/humanities merely increases the pool of talent from which universities and institutions can pick from. And since supply tends to exceed demand when you move down past the top 15 or so universities, this increases the skilled labour pool in aggregate.

    This can also be applied to female-dominated fields. Merely encouraging and incentivising men to apply for courses in nursing or education can only be a good thing. These policies only seem to be pushing for equality of outcome on the surface.
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    (Original post by HighOnGoofballs)
    Right but they can put:

    1. More funding for prostate cancer

    2. More help for homeless men

    3. More funding for male suicide prevention

    The list goes on...
    Exactly.

    There are loads of initiatives for much more trivial matters affecting women, such as initiatives to increase the representation of women in science and medicine etc.

    I think saying "it's too difficult to address" is a cop-out. If women had lower life expectancy than men, there would be an urgent global effort to try to "fix the problem". The BBC would be filled with articles about the "gender life expectancy gap" etc.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    Is equality between men and women, two biologically distinct groups, fair? Is it fair to expect the same outcomes from men and women when they have different strengths and limitations?

    ....Have you heard of any alternatives to equality? have you heard of equity?
    Reported for only stating that there are only two genders, when there's dozens
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    *waiting for this to be on trending*
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    it means equality of rights and opportunities.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    No, we should not necessarily expect the same outcomes. The same opportunities should, of course, be available to both genders.

    Society appears to view it as a problem when women have worse outcomes than men (eg, in average salary), but not when men have worse outcomes than women (eg, in average life expectancy).
    +1

    I'm going to throw a thought at you Chief in the form of a question...Is allowing women and men the same opportunities fair?

    Allowing men and women the same opportunities is a form of equality. Is this form of equality fair? Lets apply it to real life....

    A world that allows both men and women the same opportunities in life is one that allows men and women the same opportunities in abortion, the same right to refuse or allow an abortion. Is this fair? Is it fair to allow man an equal opportunity in a matter that does not pose him the same risk nor present him with the same responsibilities as a woman? Of course the answer is no.

    Let me throw another example of equal opportunity at you in the form of another question. Is it fair to allow men and women equal opportunity in a job like firefighting, a physically demanding job that comes with dangers? Men are physically superior so this profession puts them at greeter risk and presents them with greater responsibility. Is it fair to allow women and men an equal opportunity in this job? This job where your physical strength can mean the difference between being able to save a life and not being able to save a life? Should men and women be allowed the same opportunities in this kind of profession when their strengths and limitations make for such a huge difference? Of course the answer is, again, no.

    Equality, that marxist, communist concept, is flawed in all its forms.

    These are just thoughts I wanted to throw in your direction.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    No, we should not necessarily expect the same outcomes. The same opportunities should, of course, be available to both genders.
    I think this hits the nail on the head. When we think of equality many seem to mix up opportunity with outcome. For example, I note young women are often asked about their plans for a family at interview. How many men have been asked similar questions?
 
 
 

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