The majority of medical students come from affluent neighbourhoods.
Discuss. How can we widen access to medicine for people in poorer neighbourhoods? I actually have found this by reading an article from The Guardian.
Website:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/22/medical-school-students-wealthy-backgrounds
Website:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/22/medical-school-students-wealthy-backgrounds
(edited 5 years ago)
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Original post by xdopaminex
Discuss.
duh
most grad jobs are held by people from middle or upper middle class backgrounds. like produces like. nature's algorithm behind assortative mating keeps the status quo this way - except for the outliers who scale socioeconomic classes.
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Nothing new.
The vast majority of feminists complaining about an earnings gap while working at the BBC come from affluent families and areas too.
There is a long list of jobs that are the domain of middle class people or their children.
There is another list that is the domain of lower class or working class people or their children.
You'll never find the child of an affluent family cleaning the toilets at a university, but you will find plenty of them studying to be doctors, lawyers, dentist's, etc.
The vast majority of feminists complaining about an earnings gap while working at the BBC come from affluent families and areas too.
There is a long list of jobs that are the domain of middle class people or their children.
There is another list that is the domain of lower class or working class people or their children.
You'll never find the child of an affluent family cleaning the toilets at a university, but you will find plenty of them studying to be doctors, lawyers, dentist's, etc.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Princepieman
duh
most grad jobs are held by people from middle or upper middle class backgrounds. like produces like. nature's algorithm behind assortative mating keeps the status quo this way - except for the outliers who scale socioeconomic classes.
Posted from TSR Mobile
most grad jobs are held by people from middle or upper middle class backgrounds. like produces like. nature's algorithm behind assortative mating keeps the status quo this way - except for the outliers who scale socioeconomic classes.
Posted from TSR Mobile
duh
Original post by Mikardo88
Discuss?
How about, so what?
How about, so what?
How can we widen access to medicine for people in poorer neighbourhoods?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by xdopaminex
How can, we as a society, widen access for everyone?
We don’t want access for “everyone” we want access for competent people with the intelligence and grit to be able to do the job. We have a way of measuring that by using testing such as GCSE and then A levels to grade competence. They can then apply for university.
I didn't mean to say that we should give everyone the chance to get into medicine. What I meant to say was how can we help people with the right aptitude to get into medicine.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by xdopaminex
How can we widen the access to medicine?
Why? It's about as wide as it can be. There are literally no barriers to anyone working hard, getting good grades, getting a place at med school, and being able to afford to go.
Original post by xdopaminex
I didn't mean to say that we should give everyone the chance to get into medicine. What I meant to say was how can we help people with the right aptitude to get into medicine.
We already are doing that.
Lowering entry requirements and courses are available for people.
Original post by xdopaminex
How can we widen access to medicine for people in poorer neighbourhoods?
https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/career/studying-medicine/becoming-a-doctor/widening-participation
https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/outreach
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/lsm/study/outreach/about/index.aspx
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/medicine/outreach/index.page
The main problem really is improving the academic attainment of disadvantaged pupils. And encouraging their teachers and parents to consider university at an early stage - ie pre A-levels - (nevermind specifically medicine) despite a background of poor progression rates.
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Original post by xdopaminex
I didn't mean to say that we should give everyone the chance to get into medicine. What I meant to say was how can we help people with the right aptitude to get into medicine.
Well that’s a totally different proposition with completely different implications. What evidence is there that people with the right aptitude cannot get into medicine?
I don’t mean to be pedantic but the way questions are put forward can illicit different answers to what you are expecting/hoping for if you are not precise in your speech.
Original post by Doonesbury
https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/career/studying-medicine/becoming-a-doctor/widening-participation
https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/outreach
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/lsm/study/outreach/about/index.aspx
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/medicine/outreach/index.page
The main problem really is improving the academic attainment of disadvantaged pupils. And encouraging their teachers and parents to consider university at an early stage - ie pre A-levels - (nevermind specifically medicine) despite a background of poor progression rates.
Posted from TSR Mobile
https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/outreach
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/lsm/study/outreach/about/index.aspx
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/medicine/outreach/index.page
The main problem really is improving the academic attainment of disadvantaged pupils. And encouraging their teachers and parents to consider university at an early stage - ie pre A-levels - (nevermind specifically medicine) despite a background of poor progression rates.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Doonesbury
https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/career/studying-medicine/becoming-a-doctor/widening-participation
https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/outreach
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/lsm/study/outreach/about/index.aspx
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/medicine/outreach/index.page
The main problem really is improving the academic attainment of disadvantaged pupils. And encouraging their teachers and parents to consider university at an early stage - ie pre A-levels - (nevermind specifically medicine) despite a background of poor progression rates.
Posted from TSR Mobile
https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/outreach
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/lsm/study/outreach/about/index.aspx
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/medicine/outreach/index.page
The main problem really is improving the academic attainment of disadvantaged pupils. And encouraging their teachers and parents to consider university at an early stage - ie pre A-levels - (nevermind specifically medicine) despite a background of poor progression rates.
Posted from TSR Mobile
This is completely correct. The original question however was “how can we widen access?” This doesn’t answer that question. Rather it gets to the root of the actual problem.
It seems that some understand the problem to be within our social structure rather than lying at the feet of the individual. Clearly, the way to attain higher recruitment of medical professionals from working class backgrounds is to get those individuals to engage and take responsibility for their grades/performance and AIM HIGH. It will not benefit anyone by merely widening access to the profession.
(edited 5 years ago)
it is very very difficult to leave the socio-economic class you're born into. indeed most people never do it and which is why 'equality of opportunity' is horse sh*t and only argued by people already born into privilege and have less hurdles to jump through. there is no equality if you're born with $10 and i'm born with none.
but i don't know what the solution is regarding med students except maybe mentoring and secondary education fees that are based on ability to pay rather than one blanket fee, which will never happen.
but i don't know what the solution is regarding med students except maybe mentoring and secondary education fees that are based on ability to pay rather than one blanket fee, which will never happen.
Original post by Mikardo88
Well that’s a totally different proposition with completely different implications. What evidence is there that people with the right aptitude cannot get into medicine?
I don’t mean to be pedantic but the way questions are put forward can illicit different answers to what you are expecting/hoping for if you are not precise in your speech.
I don’t mean to be pedantic but the way questions are put forward can illicit different answers to what you are expecting/hoping for if you are not precise in your speech.
Well, some of them could not afford to get into English Universities because of the fees, unless you live in Scotland. As a result, many bright students are discouraged from studying the course. Even if, let's say, they do get loans from the government. How will they be able to pay for their rent (assuming their apartment is expensive), their daily meals, and their tuition fees? Some students can go over their loan limit.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by Just my opinion
Nothing new.
The vast majority of feminists complaining about an earnings gap while working at the BBC come from affluent families and areas too.
The vast majority of feminists complaining about an earnings gap while working at the BBC come from affluent families and areas too.
Yep, true in medicine too.
Hilarious to see the privately-educated female medical students/doctors whose parents were doctors/lawyers complaining about how they're so disadvantaged in medicine because of their gender.
Extra helpful when their daddy is a professor and helps get their name on a few research papers.
Original post by xdopaminex
Well, some of them could not afford to get into English Universities because of the fees. As a result, many are discouraged from studying the course.
Unless you are a foreign student studying in the UK then student fees are not a problem. The fees are only paid according to your earnings when you are in full time work.
Original post by Joleee
it is very very difficult to leave the socio-economic class you're born into. indeed most people never do it and which is why 'equality of opportunity' is horse sh*t and only argued by people already born into privilege and have less hurdles to jump through. there is no equality if you're born with $10 and i'm born with none.
but i don't know what the solution is regarding med students except maybe mentoring and secondary education fees that are based on ability to pay rather than one blanket fee, which will never happen.
but i don't know what the solution is regarding med students except maybe mentoring and secondary education fees that are based on ability to pay rather than one blanket fee, which will never happen.
How about taking responsibility for your own life and not rolling over to this neo Marxist ideology that no one can ever achieve if they are not born into privilege.
People climb up and down the socioeconomic ladder all the time. The onus is on the individual to work for it.
Original post by xdopaminex
Well, some of them could not afford to get into English Universities because of the fees, unless you live in Scotland. As a result, many bright students are discouraged from studying the course.
Who? How many? Please provide links and references if you're going to make points based upon numbers.
Or are you trying to turn this into a 'tuition fees are bad' thread?
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