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how is gender different to sex?
if your a born biologically a man, aren't you a man and f you are born a women aren't you a woman? And how is gender a social construct? sorry if I sound obnoxious, i'm extremely confused
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Original post by bingbangbong11
if your a born biologically a man, aren't you a man and f you are born a women aren't you a woman? And how is gender a social construct? sorry if I sound obnoxious, i'm extremely confused
Sex is biological i.e. your chromosomes. If you are born with XX chromosomes, you're biologically a woman. If you're born with XY then you're biologically a man. Gender is what people feel they are. Someone born biologically female can call themselves male, and they can be psychologically a man, but their body will always be genetically female. Does this make sense?
Original post by DrawTheLine
Sex is biological i.e. your chromosomes. If you are born with XX chromosomes, you're biologically a woman. If you're born with XY then you're biologically a man. Gender is what people feel they are. Someone born biologically female can call themselves male, and they can be psychologically a man, but their body will always be genetically female. Does this make sense?
What does it feel like to be a man?
Original post by Student-95
What does it feel like to be a man?
I have no idea.
Original post by DrawTheLine
I have no idea.
So how do you know if you're a man or not?
Original post by Student-95
So how do you know if you're a man or not?
Well, I know I'm a woman because I was born genetically female and I feel like a woman. I've never felt like a man. You just know who you are. Most people know who they are based on their genetics.
Original post by DrawTheLine
Well, I know I'm a woman because I was born genetically female and I feel like a woman. I've never felt like a man. You just know who you are. Most people know who they are based on their genetics.
So what does it feel like to be a woman?
You admitted you don't know what it's like to feel like a man so how can you say you have never felt like a man?
Original post by Student-95
So what does it feel like to be a woman?
You admitted you don't know what it's like to feel like a man so how can you say you have never felt like a man?
You admitted you don't know what it's like to feel like a man so how can you say you have never felt like a man?
I feel like a human? Idk. I am looking forward to being someone's wife and mother, I enjoy doing stereotypically girly things.
I have never felt like I man because what I feel feels like a woman. Idk why you're making it so complicated? Just be who you feel you are. There are 2 sexes, but 3 genders. You can't choose your sex but choose your gender based on who you feel like.
Original post by DrawTheLine
I feel like a human? Idk. I am looking forward to being someone's wife and mother, I enjoy doing stereotypically girly things.
I have never felt like I man because what I feel feels like a woman. Idk why you're making it so complicated? Just be who you feel you are. There are 2 sexes, but 3 genders. You can't choose your sex but choose your gender based on who you feel like.
I have never felt like I man because what I feel feels like a woman. Idk why you're making it so complicated? Just be who you feel you are. There are 2 sexes, but 3 genders. You can't choose your sex but choose your gender based on who you feel like.
You're the one making it complicated by introducing terms you can't define.
What I don't understand is if you are a biological man who likes things that are stereotypically done by women, why does that make you a woman? Are you not just a man who doesn't fit the stereotype?
Does it also apply to something like race? If you're white but you enjoy things stereotypically black, are you a black person inside a white body? Or just a white person who doesn't fit your racial stereotype?
Also, what is the third gender and why are there only 3?
Original post by Student-95
You're the one making it complicated by introducing terms you can't define.
What I don't understand is if you are a biological man who likes things that are stereotypically done by women, why does that make you a woman? Are you not just a man who doesn't fit the stereotype?
Does it also apply to something like race? If you're white but you enjoy things stereotypically black, are you a black person inside a white body? Or just a white person who doesn't fit your racial stereotype?
Also, what is the third gender and why are there only 3?
What I don't understand is if you are a biological man who likes things that are stereotypically done by women, why does that make you a woman? Are you not just a man who doesn't fit the stereotype?
Does it also apply to something like race? If you're white but you enjoy things stereotypically black, are you a black person inside a white body? Or just a white person who doesn't fit your racial stereotype?
Also, what is the third gender and why are there only 3?
Sorry I thought I was answering a thread explaining the difference between sex and gender, not entering into a debate about gender!
You're a woman if you feel like one and a man if you feel like one, or a bit in between. Stereotypes or not, doesn't matter. Whatever makes people happy
The general consensus is no it doesn't apply to anything else except gender, especially since we are referring to gender here
In my opinion, there's male, female and androgynous (where you're either neither male or female, or a bit of both).
I know my gender is female because I have zero desire to present as male and to integrate myself into society as a man. My biological sex and my gender identity align. My FTM trans friend, however, would feel differently. He was born biologically female, as the other comment explained, but feels a disconnect between his body and his identity. When he looks into the mirror, he is made uncomfortable or distressed by his feminine body shape. This is called gender dysphoria and is required to be transgender.
Gender is not a social construct. If it was, then trans people would be invalid. The people who say that gender is a social construct often say it with positive intentions, trying to say that people are free to express themselves however they wish. However, they probably mean that gender roles are a social construct, which is accurate. Different cultures and societies vary in gender roles. For example, in the Western world, it has for a long time been expected of a woman to stay at home and look after children while her husband works. However, the Mosuo, a famously matriarchal ethnic group from China, would disagree. The role of the woman there is to do the housework and bring in the money, whereas the man is expected to raise his sister's children and build the house. Some would say that the Mosuo man has no responsibility at all because he doesn't work and he rests all day.
Gender is not a social construct. If it was, then trans people would be invalid. The people who say that gender is a social construct often say it with positive intentions, trying to say that people are free to express themselves however they wish. However, they probably mean that gender roles are a social construct, which is accurate. Different cultures and societies vary in gender roles. For example, in the Western world, it has for a long time been expected of a woman to stay at home and look after children while her husband works. However, the Mosuo, a famously matriarchal ethnic group from China, would disagree. The role of the woman there is to do the housework and bring in the money, whereas the man is expected to raise his sister's children and build the house. Some would say that the Mosuo man has no responsibility at all because he doesn't work and he rests all day.
Original post by DrawTheLine
Sorry I thought I was answering a thread explaining the difference between sex and gender, not entering into a debate about gender!
You're a woman if you feel like one and a man if you feel like one, or a bit in between. Stereotypes or not, doesn't matter. Whatever makes people happy
The general consensus is no it doesn't apply to anything else except gender, especially since we are referring to gender here
In my opinion, there's male, female and androgynous (where you're either neither male or female, or a bit of both).
You're a woman if you feel like one and a man if you feel like one, or a bit in between. Stereotypes or not, doesn't matter. Whatever makes people happy
The general consensus is no it doesn't apply to anything else except gender, especially since we are referring to gender here
In my opinion, there's male, female and androgynous (where you're either neither male or female, or a bit of both).
Right but you didn't explain, hence my questions.
Even now you're saying 'a man is someone who feels like a man' but by your own admission, you don't know what a man feels like. You're using the term you're supposed to be defining in the definition...
If you can't define it then fair enough (I've yet to have anyone who believes gender is different actually articulate what a man/woman is) but surely then the terms are meaningless? In which case we should throw out gender altogether and just refer to everyone as people.
Original post by Student-95
Right but you didn't explain, hence my questions.
Even now you're saying 'a man is someone who feels like a man' but by your own admission, you don't know what a man feels like. You're using the term you're supposed to be defining in the definition...
If you can't define it then fair enough (I've yet to have anyone who believes gender is different actually articulate what a man/woman is) but surely then the terms are meaningless? In which case we should throw out gender altogether and just refer to everyone as people.
Even now you're saying 'a man is someone who feels like a man' but by your own admission, you don't know what a man feels like. You're using the term you're supposed to be defining in the definition...
If you can't define it then fair enough (I've yet to have anyone who believes gender is different actually articulate what a man/woman is) but surely then the terms are meaningless? In which case we should throw out gender altogether and just refer to everyone as people.
Meh, there's other more important things in life to worry about. Gender is psychological, and there's a lot of psychological things that can't be precisely defined. There is no need to get so concerned or worked up over it. Just let people identify as who they want and be who they want. Focus on yourself and how you feel. As long as we are happy and healthy, it doesn't matter what the definition of a man or a woman is (although typically they are defined in the biological sense).
Original post by DrawTheLine
Meh, there's other more important things in life to worry about. Gender is psychological, and there's a lot of psychological things that can't be precisely defined. There is no need to get so concerned or worked up over it. Just let people identify as who they want and be who they want. Focus on yourself and how you feel. As long as we are happy and healthy, it doesn't matter what the definition of a man or a woman is (although typically they are defined in the biological sense).
in summary: you are making it up... just like the old zealots of yesteryear (namely Christians)
Original post by Student-95
You're the one making it complicated by introducing terms you can't define.
What I don't understand is if you are a biological man who likes things that are stereotypically done by women, why does that make you a woman? Are you not just a man who doesn't fit the stereotype?
Does it also apply to something like race? If you're white but you enjoy things stereotypically black, are you a black person inside a white body? Or just a white person who doesn't fit your racial stereotype?
Also, what is the third gender and why are there only 3?
What I don't understand is if you are a biological man who likes things that are stereotypically done by women, why does that make you a woman? Are you not just a man who doesn't fit the stereotype?
Does it also apply to something like race? If you're white but you enjoy things stereotypically black, are you a black person inside a white body? Or just a white person who doesn't fit your racial stereotype?
Also, what is the third gender and why are there only 3?
It's not about stereotypes, it's about a firm disconnect between not just the roles society expects of you based on birth genitalia (and it's still really ****ing weird that we as a society focus so heavily on baby genitals) but between the body and mind - if we take agender to be a gender in and of itself (which is the same question as is atheist a belief), everyone has a gender identity, effectively that voice in your head that describes you as a man, a woman, both, neither or something between. Most don't see this because it corresponds to their assigned gender, some are loosely connected to it but aren't bothered enough to feel a need to be seen elsewise (effectively cis by default), and for some that voice is at odds with what was assigned
There's more than 3 genders, there's an undefined number because that's how spectrums work.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Student-95
Right but you didn't explain, hence my questions.
Even now you're saying 'a man is someone who feels like a man' but by your own admission, you don't know what a man feels like. You're using the term you're supposed to be defining in the definition...
If you can't define it then fair enough (I've yet to have anyone who believes gender is different actually articulate what a man/woman is) but surely then the terms are meaningless? In which case we should throw out gender altogether and just refer to everyone as people.
Even now you're saying 'a man is someone who feels like a man' but by your own admission, you don't know what a man feels like. You're using the term you're supposed to be defining in the definition...
If you can't define it then fair enough (I've yet to have anyone who believes gender is different actually articulate what a man/woman is) but surely then the terms are meaningless? In which case we should throw out gender altogether and just refer to everyone as people.
If someone hasn't experienced gender dysphoria it would be near impossible to accurately describe it, you seem to want something from her that she can't tell you really.
If you feel you would be more comfortable in the body of the opposite sex then you can identify that way and see if it works, that's about as far as I can explain it without making bad assumptions and being insulting.
Original post by A Rolling Stone
in summary: you are making it up... just like the old zealots of yesteryear (namely Christians)
I'm not making anything up. I'm trying to explain something that is hard to explain. I can tell I won't be able to say anything without you immediately pushing it aside, so I won't bother. Read some psychological journals about gender dysphoria if you want proper scientific answers.
Original post by DrawTheLine
Meh, there's other more important things in life to worry about. Gender is psychological, and there's a lot of psychological things that can't be precisely defined. There is no need to get so concerned or worked up over it. Just let people identify as who they want and be who they want. Focus on yourself and how you feel. As long as we are happy and healthy, it doesn't matter what the definition of a man or a woman is (although typically they are defined in the biological sense).
Fair enough, if that's your stance the terms are meaningless anyway but it's understandable why many people won't accept terms that can't be defined.
Original post by A Rolling Stone
gender dysphoria is the correct term. transgender is the incorrect term.
an anorexic who is convinced she is 'fat' does not make her legitimately fat. similarly, a "transgender" man who thinks he is a woman, does not make him a woman.
you, and people like you (ironically the most educated demographic) are pandering to a new but fashionable anti-science movement.
an anorexic who is convinced she is 'fat' does not make her legitimately fat. similarly, a "transgender" man who thinks he is a woman, does not make him a woman.
you, and people like you (ironically the most educated demographic) are pandering to a new but fashionable anti-science movement.
I dont believe I said transgender in any of my comments? I'm not anti science! I'm very much for science. Sorry if I gave you this impression
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
It's not about stereotypes, it's about a firm disconnect between not just the roles society expects of you based on birth genitalia (and it's still really ****ing weird that we as a society focus so heavily on baby genitals) but between the body and mind - if we take agender to be a gender in and of itself (which is the same question as is atheist a belief), everyone has a gender identity, effectively that voice in your head that describes you as a man, a woman, both, neither or something between. Most don't see this because it corresponds to their assigned gender, some are loosely connected to it but aren't bothered enough to feel a need to be seen elsewise (effectively cis by default), and for some that voice is at odds with what was assigned
There's more than 3 genders, there's an undefined number because that's how spectrums work.
There's more than 3 genders, there's an undefined number because that's how spectrums work.
So stereotypes plus gender dysphoria?
Does this also apply to race? It sounds like the exact same conditions could exist with someone who is not comfortable with their skin colour and the societal expectations of their race.
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