Poll: Abortion Debate
For Abortion (282)
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Against Abortion (111)
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TheFlash2024
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#1
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Would you abort your child at 4- months pregnant, why?
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by TheFlash2024)
Would you abort your child at 4- months pregnant, why?
By definition, it is then NOT a child period.
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username1539513
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Not pro abortion per say, pro choice

Whether I would abort at 4 months or not depends on the circumstances; if I was raped or the child was at risk of killing me then certainly; otherwise I’d have to have to consider if the circumstances of my life were right enough to bring another life into existence
Last edited by username1539513; 2 months ago
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TheFlash2024
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It was a child the second it was concieved
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by TheFlash2024)
Would you abort your child at 4- months pregnant, why?
This topic has been debated sooo many times on TSR.

Abortion should be illegal because it is murder. Simple.
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ryeann
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
By definition, it is then NOT a child period.
How are you defining when it's a child then?
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AdamCor
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(Original post by TheFlash2024)
It was a child the second it was concieved
No it wasn't. At that stage it is a bunch of cells beginning to fuse DNA and begin multiplying. If anything it's closest to a paper cut healing.

On topic: I'm pro-choice. No one has a right to tell a woman what to do with her body. There are laws protecting posthumous bodily integrity, where a person can decide what their dead body can/can't be used for once they have died. To tell a woman she can't do what she wants with her body would be to tell her that her own body has more rights when she is dead rather than alive. And quite frankly that's insanity.
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ryeann
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(Original post by AdamCor)
No it wasn't. At that stage it is a bunch of cells beginning to fuse DNA and begin multiplying. If anything it's closest to a paper cut healing.

On topic: I'm pro-choice. No one has a right to tell a woman what to do with her body. There are laws protecting posthumous bodily integrity, where a person can decide what their dead body can/can't be used for once they have died. To tell a woman she can't do what she wants with her body would be to tell her that her own body has more rights when she is dead rather than alive. And quite frankly that's insanity.
If no one has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, then why are prostitution laws, organ donating laws & drug laws a thing?
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AdamCor
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(Original post by ryeann)
If no one has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, then why are prostitution laws, organ donating laws & drug laws a thing?
Because people's views on bodily autonomy are clouded by their views on sex, health, and the war on drugs. I would in a simple sense, abolish those laws and substitute them with a support network focussed on educating people instead of punishing them.

Although you do make a pretty good point.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
This topic has been debated sooo many times on TSR.

Abortion should be illegal because it is murder. Simple.
Murder is by definition an illegal act. Abortion cannot be murder if it's legal.

You could argue that abortion is killing, but it isn't murder.
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ryeann
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(Original post by AdamCor)
Because people's views on bodily autonomy are clouded by their views on sex, health, and the war on drugs. I would in a simple sense, abolish those laws and substitute them with a support network focussed on educating people instead of punishing them.

Although you do make a pretty good point.
if a 12 year old girl needs the money to support her family then you would be saying that's ok as long as she listened to some talks on prostitution?
As for the abortion you said it's not a child when it's concieved so when would you say it is a child?
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Em.-.
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Neither for nor against but I believe the woman has the right to choose. I personally wouldn’t abort a child past around 20 weeks unless the child was going to be born with a *severe* disability that would be incredibly unpleasant to live with or if my life was in danger from the pregnancy (which normally seems to occur if the foetus/child is also dying). In any other case I would take earlier measures as I wouldn’t let a child grow in me and then simply decide I cba.

I think women deserve the right to choose what to do however I sometimes think they are making the wrong choice if they aren’t aborting due to rape, risk of death or serious illness or the child being born with a very painful condition.
I wouldn’t consider abortion murder if the baby is below 20 weeks (as I think sometimes they can survive after this age so by justifying an abortion it’s kinda like justifying killing a premature baby, but still I understand the circumstances are different) however the limit is 24 weeks I believe in the U.K. and the vast majority babies wouldn’t survive if born before then.

So yeah pro choice as it’s the woman’s body, but not necessarily pro abortion.
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by ryeann)
How are you defining when it's a child then?
Ask yout logic lecturer (if you have any_) how to make proper deifiniotions.
I'm fed up teaching people the basics.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by ryeann)
If no one has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, then why are prostitution laws, organ donating laws & drug laws a thing?
Those laws stop a woman from using her body in a certain way. What I believe the user was trying to say is that a woman has control (or should have control) over who else can use her body.
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AdamCor
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(Original post by ryeann)
if a 12 year old girl needs the money to support her family then you would be saying that's ok as long as she listened to some talks on prostitution?
As for the abortion you said it's not a child when it's concieved so when would you say it is a child?
As unpopular as my opinion is, yes. I don't think "talks" is exactly what I mean, as I mean it would be essential the girl knows:
The risks of prostitution
How she can get help (ie government help in the forms of benefits or things such as disability allowances (but not for disabilities, for whatever her situation is))

I'm not exactly a biologist so I can't say. But I do know it's not a child when it is conceived, at most it is a "developing child" which is a broad term covering the time from conception to 8 weeks (embryo stage) then 8 weeks to birth (fetus stage), then after birth it is most definitely a child. Whether or not it is a child between birth and the fetus stage, I have no idea.
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TheFlash2024
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#16
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Say the child was disabled, would that effect your responses?
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ryeann
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(Original post by AdamCor)
As unpopular as my opinion is, yes. I don't think "talks" is exactly what I mean, as I mean it would be essential the girl knows:
The risks of prostitution
How she can get help (ie government help in the forms of benefits or things such as disability allowances (but not for disabilities, for whatever her situation is))

I'm not exactly a biologist so I can't say. But I do know it's not a child when it is conceived, at most it is a "developing child" which is a broad term covering the time from conception to 8 weeks (embryo stage) then 8 weeks to birth (fetus stage), then after birth it is most definitely a child. Whether or not it is a child between birth and the fetus stage, I have no idea.
A developing child is surely a child? At the very least I would like to know what cognitive/physical components you deem essential in defining when it is a child

(Original post by PTMalewski)
Ask yout logic lecturer (if you have any_) how to make proper deifiniotions.
I'm fed up teaching people the basics.
I mean, there has been no universally agreed upon definition on when one becomes a child, I'm simply asking for the definition of what is a child from this individual who said with certainity when it is not a child.
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username5021692
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(Original post by TheFlash2024)
It was a child the second it was concieved
Ok, so what if the day this "child" was conceived the mother gets into a car crash which was the fault of another driver. The mother is fine but the zygote is harmed by the crash and the cells die and it is no longer. Do you think the other driver should be charged for causing death (to the zygote) by dangerous driving? (This is supposing we have the technology to know you are pregnant form day 1).
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Apachecow
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(Original post by AdamCor)
No one has a right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
I agree, but neither should a man be forced to have a child to support for 18 years that he didn't want. I think there should be a lawful process where if the girl wants to keep the child and the boy doesn't he can renounce all rights to it.

The only time I'd abort a 4 month pregnancy was if the child was disabled. There is no way I have the commitment for that (hats off to those that do)
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AdamCor
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(Original post by ryeann)
A developing child is surely a child? At the very least I would like to know what cognitive/physical components you deem essential in defining when it is a child


I mean, there has been no universally agreed upon definition on when one becomes a child, I'm simply asking for the definition of what is a child from this individual who said with certainity when it is not a child.
I don't think a developing child is a child, I could "develop" a phone game, but it's not a game until it runs (not exactly a fair comparison, a game and child, but it's the only thing I can think of that should emphasise my point). The cognitive/physical components I have no idea, maybe cognitively pain, and physically I'm not sure. It's very hard to define life overall, virsuses seem alive yet we don't consider them alive (don't ask me questions on this, I haven't done biology in 5 years).
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