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Simultaneous Equation

Hi. I have the working out here for a sim equation but I’m not understanding the process. Explain like I’m five please and thank you.

Y/3 (< fraction) + 12 = y + 12 / 2 (< all of it is a fraction)
Then we eliminate the fractions to get a simple sim equation.
Starting on the right we remove the denom of 2 and multiply the y and the 12 on the left hand side by this 2
So 2y/3 + 24 = y+12 (my first question is why we don’t multiply the 3 by 2 as well?)
Then 2y+72=3(y+12) - removing the 3 on the left hand side (now why do we multiply the number on the same side (24 > 72) by 3 and we didn’t do that for the 2? Also why do we multiply the numerator?)
2y+72= 3y+36
Then I know how to work it out from there.
Reply 1
Original post by Throwaway927774
Hi. I have the working out here for a sim equation but I’m not understanding the process. Explain like I’m five please and thank you.

Y/3 (< fraction) + 12 = y + 12 / 2 (< all of it is a fraction)
Then we eliminate the fractions to get a simple sim equation.
Starting on the right we remove the denom of 2 and multiply the y and the 12 on the left hand side by this 2
So 2y/3 + 24 = y+12 (my first question is why we don’t multiply the 3 by 2 as well?)
Then 2y+72=3(y+12) - removing the 3 on the left hand side (now why do we multiply the number on the same side (24 > 72) by 3 and we didn’t do that for the 2? Also why do we multiply the numerator?)
2y+72= 3y+36
Then I know how to work it out from there.

Is this suppose to be
y3+12=y+122\dfrac{y}{3} + 12 = \dfrac{y + 12}{2} ?

So your first step is to multiply both sides by 2. This will clear the fraction on the RHS because the denominator is 2.

On the LHS you are multiplying by 2 i.e. doubling, so you only multiply the numerator by 2. If you multiplied the denominator of 3 by 2 you would be finding an equivalent fraction to y3\dfrac{y}{3}, which is NOT what you want!
Original post by davros
Is this suppose to be
y3+12=y+122\dfrac{y}{3} + 12 = \dfrac{y + 12}{2} ?

So your first step is to multiply both sides by 2. This will clear the fraction on the RHS because the denominator is 2.

On the LHS you are multiplying by 2 i.e. doubling, so you only multiply the numerator by 2. If you multiplied the denominator of 3 by 2 you would be finding an equivalent fraction to y3\dfrac{y}{3}, which is NOT what you want!

I appreciate the help but I’d like insight on my other questions too.
Reply 3
Original post by Throwaway927774
I appreciate the help but I’d like insight on my other questions too.

Are you now happy that after the 1st step you now have:
2y3+24=y+12\dfrac{2y}{3} + 24 = y + 12 ?

You now have 2 terms on the LHS and one of them involves a fraction with the denominator 3, In order to clear this fraction you can multiply both sides by 3 but remember that you have to multiply both sides by 3 - you are basically just applying the rule 3(a + b) = 3a + 3b to both sides.

The explanation here is really just the same as I gave for the first case of multiplying by 2. Remember that there is a difference between "multiplying everything by a number to clear a fraction" and "finding a fraction equivalent to a given one" :smile:
Original post by davros
Are you now happy that after the 1st step you now have:
2y3+24=y+12\dfrac{2y}{3} + 24 = y + 12 ?

You now have 2 terms on the LHS and one of them involves a fraction with the denominator 3, In order to clear this fraction you can multiply both sides by 3 but remember that you have to multiply both sides by 3 - you are basically just applying the rule 3(a + b) = 3a + 3b to both sides.

The explanation here is really just the same as I gave for the first case of multiplying by 2. Remember that there is a difference between "multiplying everything by a number to clear a fraction" and "finding a fraction equivalent to a given one" :smile:

Why do we multiply the 24 by the denom of 3 when we’re already multiplying just by cancelling the fraction? So technically you’re multiplying two things on the LHS by 3. Now, we multiply 24 by 3 and they’re in the same side of the equation.. so why don’t we multiply y+12 on the rhs by 2?
Reply 5
Original post by Throwaway927774
Why do we multiply the 24 by the denom of 3 when we’re already multiplying just by cancelling the fraction? So technically you’re multiplying two things on the LHS by 3. Now, we multiply 24 by 3 and they’re in the same side of the equation.. so why don’t we multiply y+12 on the rhs by 2?

Break it down into components so you can see what's going on :smile:

You have A + B = y + 12 where A=2y3A = \dfrac{2y}{3} and B=24B = 24

Now multiply both sides by 3 to get

3(A+B)=3(y+12)3(A + B) = 3(y + 12)

Now multiply out the brackets on both sides:

3A+3B=3y+363A + 3B = 3y + 36

Now substitute back in for A and B:

3A=3×2y3=2y3A = 3 \times \dfrac{2y}{3} = 2y and 3B=3×24=723B = 3 \times 24 = 72

Hence 2y+72=3y+362y + 72 = 3y + 36
Original post by davros
Break it down into components so you can see what's going on :smile:

You have A + B = y + 12 where A=2y3A = \dfrac{2y}{3} and B=24B = 24

Now multiply both sides by 3 to get

3(A+B)=3(y+12)3(A + B) = 3(y + 12)

Now multiply out the brackets on both sides:

3A+3B=3y+363A + 3B = 3y + 36

Now substitute back in for A and B:

3A=3×2y3=2y3A = 3 \times \dfrac{2y}{3} = 2y and 3B=3×24=723B = 3 \times 24 = 72

Hence 2y+72=3y+362y + 72 = 3y + 36

I’m still confused about the rhs. Why isn’t that 2(y/3 +12) = 2(y+12)? We haven’t multiplied anything on the rhs by 2, is this because it’s a fraction? Multiplying it would change the fraction?
But then why did we multiply the first one by 2 and not the second? i.e 2y/3? That in itself is changing the fraction
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by davros
Break it down into components so you can see what's going on :smile:

You have A + B = y + 12 where A=2y3A = \dfrac{2y}{3} and B=24B = 24

Now multiply both sides by 3 to get

3(A+B)=3(y+12)3(A + B) = 3(y + 12)

Now multiply out the brackets on both sides:

3A+3B=3y+363A + 3B = 3y + 36

Now substitute back in for A and B:

3A=3×2y3=2y3A = 3 \times \dfrac{2y}{3} = 2y and 3B=3×24=723B = 3 \times 24 = 72

Hence 2y+72=3y+362y + 72 = 3y + 36

Also you didn’t multiply 2y\3 even though you put the 3 behind its brackets
(edited 3 years ago)
Reply 8
Original post by Throwaway927774
I’m still confused about the rhs. Why isn’t that 2(y/3 +12) = 2(y+12)? We haven’t multiplied anything on the rhs by 2, is this because it’s a fraction? Multiplying it would change the fraction?
But then why did we multiply the first one by 2 and not the second? i.e 2y/3? That in itself is changing the fraction


Original post by Throwaway927774
Also you didn’t multiply 2y\3 even though you put the 3 behind its brackets

OK, can I just ask what level you're currently working at? Are you a GCSE student or are you returning to education after a gap?


The operations I'm performing on your equations are fairly basic GCSE manipulations, but you seem to be having a bit of trouble following the logic, so I need to try to understand how much algebra you understand already because maths is a foundational subject and if you haven't grasped the basics then you are going to struggle moving on to more difficult stuff :smile:
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by davros
OK, can I just ask what level you're currently working at? Are you a GCSE student or are you returning to education after a gap?


The operations I'm performing on your equations are fairly basic GCSE manipulations, but you seem to be having a bit of trouble following the logic, so I need to try to understand how much algebra you understand already because maths is a foundational subject and if you haven't grasped the basics then you are going to struggle moving on to more difficult stuff :smile:

I’ve returned to education in June after 5 years educationless. I’m 18 now.
Reply 10
Original post by Throwaway927774
I’ve returned to education in June after 5 years educationless. I’m 18 now.

OK, so this problem that you've posted - where does it come from? Are you working through a set of exercises in a GCSE text book and this is the first one you've come across where you're stuck, or is it part of some other problem in a different subject?

The key to dealing with problems like this is to do plenty of practice exercises on similar things but build up from smaller problems with fewer terms or fewer separate operations.

For example, where you have y3+12\dfrac{y}{3} + 12 originally, do you understand that the '12' isn't part of the fraction - we have one term y3\dfrac{y}{3} which is a fraction, and to that fraction we add the integer 12.

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