Are mandatory covid vaccinations justified?
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https://archive.ph/1D9W6 interesting to see how the narrative is... evolving.
Original post by TCA2b
https://archive.ph/1D9W6 interesting to see how the narrative is... evolving.
It seems there is a bit of manipulation...
Another tool in my view to justify the unjustifiable i.e mandatory vaccinations and pressures to get everyone vaccinated.
Original post by PilgrimOfTruth
This is utterly abhorrent. It's Orwellian dystopia happening right before our eyes. I can't believe people are not waking up to what is happening.
Austria has had numerous and regular protests for some time now as have other countries heading into this police state ethos. I predict those protests will now turn into riots and that mass civil unrest will ensue. Cities will burn imo. What an absolutely terrible end for a beautiful country steeped in classical heritage. Beautiful Vienna, Strauss, the Blue Danube and so on. This imo marks the end of democracy and the ushering in of Authoritarian tyranny, dictatorship. What on earth is to be done?
Austria has had numerous and regular protests for some time now as have other countries heading into this police state ethos. I predict those protests will now turn into riots and that mass civil unrest will ensue. Cities will burn imo. What an absolutely terrible end for a beautiful country steeped in classical heritage. Beautiful Vienna, Strauss, the Blue Danube and so on. This imo marks the end of democracy and the ushering in of Authoritarian tyranny, dictatorship. What on earth is to be done?
Indeed!! Some Orwellian dystopia and a number of citizens who seem not to realise what is happening around them in my view. Imagine you agree with mandatory vaccinations?! The arguments presented in favour of them imo are arguments that are unsubstantiated, unqualified, lacking basic knowledge of scientific and public health matters, and are irrelevant with the subject. Those who present them seem to be confusing basic matters.
Are mandatory Covid vaccinations justified?
No. There is a debate to be had about whether any vaccines should ever be mandatory - but that is not the question here.
Covid-19 may be a nasty disease but only a very small proportion of the millions of people who have contracted it end up dying. Relatively few end up in hospital, and most of those are elderly or have other underlying health problems - and the overwhelming majority of these have chosen to be vaccinated, so they are 'protected'.
The current Covid vaccines do little to prevent transmission and were never intended to do so. They provide some protection against severe disease and hospitalisation but only for a matter of months before another jab is required. So mandatory vaccinations would mean jabbing entire populations over and over again; that's something that even the head of the UKs Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, Prof Sir Andrew Pollard, has said is unsustainable.
For young people, the the benefits are negligible and the risks relatively high. That is why there was so much debate over whether to inject children and why, even in the UK, the AstraZeneca vaccine is not used for under 40s.
Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
Health department warning over vaccine mandate for NHS staff in England: Ministers have been issued with a stark warning over mandatory Covid vaccines for NHS workers in England, with a leaked document saying growing evidence on the Omicron variant casts doubts over the new law’s “rationality” and “proportionality”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-england-staff
The US Federal Government's attempt to impose a mandate on all workers in companies employing more than 100 people has been thrown out by the Supreme Court and many large companies are now being forced to think hard before imposing their own mandates for fear of losing workers or challenges in the courts. The Federal Government's plan for its own employees is now in trouble:
U.S. judge blocks Biden federal employee COVID vaccine mandate
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-judge-blocks-biden-federal-employee-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-2022-01-21/
As reported in this thread, the Austrian Government has imposed a vaccine mandate for all citizens. But this has faced huge protests, which will only grow as the mandate is implemented. It has already been watered down and the Government has provided itself with a number of face-saving escape clauses. It is even trying to bribe people with lottery tickets!
Austria creates Covid lottery with €500 prizes to woo vaccine hesitant: Carrot-and-stick approach includes vaccine mandate and lottery tickets for fully inoculated
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/20/austria-creates-covid-lottery-with-500-prizes-to-woo-vaccine-hesitant
In short, Covid vaccine mandates are unethical, divisive, illogical and unworkable. End of story.
No. There is a debate to be had about whether any vaccines should ever be mandatory - but that is not the question here.
Covid-19 may be a nasty disease but only a very small proportion of the millions of people who have contracted it end up dying. Relatively few end up in hospital, and most of those are elderly or have other underlying health problems - and the overwhelming majority of these have chosen to be vaccinated, so they are 'protected'.
The current Covid vaccines do little to prevent transmission and were never intended to do so. They provide some protection against severe disease and hospitalisation but only for a matter of months before another jab is required. So mandatory vaccinations would mean jabbing entire populations over and over again; that's something that even the head of the UKs Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, Prof Sir Andrew Pollard, has said is unsustainable.
For young people, the the benefits are negligible and the risks relatively high. That is why there was so much debate over whether to inject children and why, even in the UK, the AstraZeneca vaccine is not used for under 40s.
Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
Health department warning over vaccine mandate for NHS staff in England: Ministers have been issued with a stark warning over mandatory Covid vaccines for NHS workers in England, with a leaked document saying growing evidence on the Omicron variant casts doubts over the new law’s “rationality” and “proportionality”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-england-staff
The US Federal Government's attempt to impose a mandate on all workers in companies employing more than 100 people has been thrown out by the Supreme Court and many large companies are now being forced to think hard before imposing their own mandates for fear of losing workers or challenges in the courts. The Federal Government's plan for its own employees is now in trouble:
U.S. judge blocks Biden federal employee COVID vaccine mandate
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-judge-blocks-biden-federal-employee-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-2022-01-21/
As reported in this thread, the Austrian Government has imposed a vaccine mandate for all citizens. But this has faced huge protests, which will only grow as the mandate is implemented. It has already been watered down and the Government has provided itself with a number of face-saving escape clauses. It is even trying to bribe people with lottery tickets!
Austria creates Covid lottery with €500 prizes to woo vaccine hesitant: Carrot-and-stick approach includes vaccine mandate and lottery tickets for fully inoculated
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/20/austria-creates-covid-lottery-with-500-prizes-to-woo-vaccine-hesitant
In short, Covid vaccine mandates are unethical, divisive, illogical and unworkable. End of story.
Original post by Supermature
Are mandatory Covid vaccinations justified?
No. There is a debate to be had about whether any vaccines should ever be mandatory - but that is not the question here.
Covid-19 may be a nasty disease but only a very small proportion of the millions of people who have contracted it end up dying. Relatively few end up in hospital, and most of those are elderly or have other underlying health problems - and the overwhelming majority of these have chosen to be vaccinated, so they are 'protected'.
The current Covid vaccines do little to prevent transmission and were never intended to do so. They provide some protection against severe disease and hospitalisation but only for a matter of months before another jab is required. So mandatory vaccinations would mean jabbing entire populations over and over again; that's something that even the head of the UKs Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, Prof Sir Andrew Pollard, has said is unsustainable.
For young people, the the benefits are negligible and the risks relatively high. That is why there was so much debate over whether to inject children and why, even in the UK, the AstraZeneca vaccine is not used for under 40s.
Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
Health department warning over vaccine mandate for NHS staff in England: Ministers have been issued with a stark warning over mandatory Covid vaccines for NHS workers in England, with a leaked document saying growing evidence on the Omicron variant casts doubts over the new law’s “rationality” and “proportionality”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-england-staff
The US Federal Government's attempt to impose a mandate on all workers in companies employing more than 100 people has been thrown out by the Supreme Court and many large companies are now being forced to think hard before imposing their own mandates for fear of losing workers or challenges in the courts. The Federal Government's plan for its own employees is now in trouble:
U.S. judge blocks Biden federal employee COVID vaccine mandate
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-judge-blocks-biden-federal-employee-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-2022-01-21/
As reported in this thread, the Austrian Government has imposed a vaccine mandate for all citizens. But this has faced huge protests, which will only grow as the mandate is implemented. It has already been watered down and the Government has provided itself with a number of face-saving escape clauses. It is even trying to bribe people with lottery tickets!
Austria creates Covid lottery with €500 prizes to woo vaccine hesitant: Carrot-and-stick approach includes vaccine mandate and lottery tickets for fully inoculated
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/20/austria-creates-covid-lottery-with-500-prizes-to-woo-vaccine-hesitant
In short, Covid vaccine mandates are unethical, divisive, illogical and unworkable. End of story.
No. There is a debate to be had about whether any vaccines should ever be mandatory - but that is not the question here.
Covid-19 may be a nasty disease but only a very small proportion of the millions of people who have contracted it end up dying. Relatively few end up in hospital, and most of those are elderly or have other underlying health problems - and the overwhelming majority of these have chosen to be vaccinated, so they are 'protected'.
The current Covid vaccines do little to prevent transmission and were never intended to do so. They provide some protection against severe disease and hospitalisation but only for a matter of months before another jab is required. So mandatory vaccinations would mean jabbing entire populations over and over again; that's something that even the head of the UKs Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, Prof Sir Andrew Pollard, has said is unsustainable.
For young people, the the benefits are negligible and the risks relatively high. That is why there was so much debate over whether to inject children and why, even in the UK, the AstraZeneca vaccine is not used for under 40s.
Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
Health department warning over vaccine mandate for NHS staff in England: Ministers have been issued with a stark warning over mandatory Covid vaccines for NHS workers in England, with a leaked document saying growing evidence on the Omicron variant casts doubts over the new law’s “rationality” and “proportionality”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-england-staff
The US Federal Government's attempt to impose a mandate on all workers in companies employing more than 100 people has been thrown out by the Supreme Court and many large companies are now being forced to think hard before imposing their own mandates for fear of losing workers or challenges in the courts. The Federal Government's plan for its own employees is now in trouble:
U.S. judge blocks Biden federal employee COVID vaccine mandate
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-judge-blocks-biden-federal-employee-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-2022-01-21/
As reported in this thread, the Austrian Government has imposed a vaccine mandate for all citizens. But this has faced huge protests, which will only grow as the mandate is implemented. It has already been watered down and the Government has provided itself with a number of face-saving escape clauses. It is even trying to bribe people with lottery tickets!
Austria creates Covid lottery with €500 prizes to woo vaccine hesitant: Carrot-and-stick approach includes vaccine mandate and lottery tickets for fully inoculated
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/20/austria-creates-covid-lottery-with-500-prizes-to-woo-vaccine-hesitant
In short, Covid vaccine mandates are unethical, divisive, illogical and unworkable. End of story.
I agree. All apart from the "End of story". The world is not black and white. There are arguments for and against mandatory vaccinations. All are valid. The best we can do as an individual is agree or disagree with them. Someone above was lamenting the policies put in place by the Austrian government. Pretty grim indeed. But to state "End of story" is to feed into an authoritarian, dictatorial system of society management.... just like the Austrian government.
The more folks like yourself on here dig in, the less democratic we are becoming, the less tolerant we are becoming and the more likely we are to end up in a system I know you would not enjoy. My challenge to you and others is to find things you can agree on before you find things you disagree with.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Supermature
Are mandatory Covid vaccinations justified?
No. There is a debate to be had about whether any vaccines should ever be mandatory - but that is not the question here.
Covid-19 may be a nasty disease but only a very small proportion of the millions of people who have contracted it end up dying. Relatively few end up in hospital, and most of those are elderly or have other underlying health problems - and the overwhelming majority of these have chosen to be vaccinated, so they are 'protected'.
The current Covid vaccines do little to prevent transmission and were never intended to do so. They provide some protection against severe disease and hospitalisation but only for a matter of months before another jab is required. So mandatory vaccinations would mean jabbing entire populations over and over again; that's something that even the head of the UKs Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, Prof Sir Andrew Pollard, has said is unsustainable.
For young people, the the benefits are negligible and the risks relatively high. That is why there was so much debate over whether to inject children and why, even in the UK, the AstraZeneca vaccine is not used for under 40s.
Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
Health department warning over vaccine mandate for NHS staff in England: Ministers have been issued with a stark warning over mandatory Covid vaccines for NHS workers in England, with a leaked document saying growing evidence on the Omicron variant casts doubts over the new law’s “rationality” and “proportionality”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-england-staff
The US Federal Government's attempt to impose a mandate on all workers in companies employing more than 100 people has been thrown out by the Supreme Court and many large companies are now being forced to think hard before imposing their own mandates for fear of losing workers or challenges in the courts. The Federal Government's plan for its own employees is now in trouble:
U.S. judge blocks Biden federal employee COVID vaccine mandate
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-judge-blocks-biden-federal-employee-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-2022-01-21/
As reported in this thread, the Austrian Government has imposed a vaccine mandate for all citizens. But this has faced huge protests, which will only grow as the mandate is implemented. It has already been watered down and the Government has provided itself with a number of face-saving escape clauses. It is even trying to bribe people with lottery tickets!
Austria creates Covid lottery with €500 prizes to woo vaccine hesitant: Carrot-and-stick approach includes vaccine mandate and lottery tickets for fully inoculated
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/20/austria-creates-covid-lottery-with-500-prizes-to-woo-vaccine-hesitant
In short, Covid vaccine mandates are unethical, divisive, illogical and unworkable. End of story.
No. There is a debate to be had about whether any vaccines should ever be mandatory - but that is not the question here.
Covid-19 may be a nasty disease but only a very small proportion of the millions of people who have contracted it end up dying. Relatively few end up in hospital, and most of those are elderly or have other underlying health problems - and the overwhelming majority of these have chosen to be vaccinated, so they are 'protected'.
The current Covid vaccines do little to prevent transmission and were never intended to do so. They provide some protection against severe disease and hospitalisation but only for a matter of months before another jab is required. So mandatory vaccinations would mean jabbing entire populations over and over again; that's something that even the head of the UKs Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, Prof Sir Andrew Pollard, has said is unsustainable.
For young people, the the benefits are negligible and the risks relatively high. That is why there was so much debate over whether to inject children and why, even in the UK, the AstraZeneca vaccine is not used for under 40s.
Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
Health department warning over vaccine mandate for NHS staff in England: Ministers have been issued with a stark warning over mandatory Covid vaccines for NHS workers in England, with a leaked document saying growing evidence on the Omicron variant casts doubts over the new law’s “rationality” and “proportionality”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-england-staff
The US Federal Government's attempt to impose a mandate on all workers in companies employing more than 100 people has been thrown out by the Supreme Court and many large companies are now being forced to think hard before imposing their own mandates for fear of losing workers or challenges in the courts. The Federal Government's plan for its own employees is now in trouble:
U.S. judge blocks Biden federal employee COVID vaccine mandate
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-judge-blocks-biden-federal-employee-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-2022-01-21/
As reported in this thread, the Austrian Government has imposed a vaccine mandate for all citizens. But this has faced huge protests, which will only grow as the mandate is implemented. It has already been watered down and the Government has provided itself with a number of face-saving escape clauses. It is even trying to bribe people with lottery tickets!
Austria creates Covid lottery with €500 prizes to woo vaccine hesitant: Carrot-and-stick approach includes vaccine mandate and lottery tickets for fully inoculated
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/20/austria-creates-covid-lottery-with-500-prizes-to-woo-vaccine-hesitant
In short, Covid vaccine mandates are unethical, divisive, illogical and unworkable. End of story.
As always very well written and very comprehensive!!
In principle, Covid vaccine mandates are a terrible idea, quite unethical, irrational, and not grounded, in my view, in reality and science. Not to mention how impractical and unsustainable is for the entire population to be jabbed every 3-4 months. Hence unworkable as you said.
As I have mentioned above, you don't expect lessons in democracy from Austria. And their rather ludicrous Government is now trying to tempt those who refuse with prizes and gifts.
The science is quite clear. If you are vaccinated, you have a significantly reduced chance of being hospitalised or dying with or of covid
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306
The cost benefit of this to society is obvious when weighted up against the fact we now have the longest waiting lists for hospital treatments of all time. The fewer people in hospital with covid, the more operations you can do.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58186708
Given these two simple facts, it is easy to understand why some would advocate that all should be vaccinated and their reasons are well justified.
However, in your opinion (and mine too) living in a liberal democracy, the idea of being forced to do something against our will does not sit well. But at best, that is just our personal opinions. Other opinions exist and are equally valid. Science does not back up our opinion. Science is science. It is what you do with it that counts.
I don't recall anyone saying we would have to have booster jabs every 3-4 months other than you and your friends ironically. We had the booster before Christmas because we had the new variant Omicron descend on us at the worst possible time of year all round as well as a floundering leader looking to be seen to be doing the right thing as a distraction from the mess of his premiership. Unwittingly he probably made the right call. As we move into the future no doubt policy will change accordingly especially as our understanding has been increased.
I think it fair to watch this space. April is fast approaching when the NHS workers are expected to be vaccinated. I think we can expect another u-turn from our government. I would like to say it would be embarrassing but they have u-turned so often I am not sure they understand what embarrassing is.
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306
The cost benefit of this to society is obvious when weighted up against the fact we now have the longest waiting lists for hospital treatments of all time. The fewer people in hospital with covid, the more operations you can do.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58186708
Given these two simple facts, it is easy to understand why some would advocate that all should be vaccinated and their reasons are well justified.
However, in your opinion (and mine too) living in a liberal democracy, the idea of being forced to do something against our will does not sit well. But at best, that is just our personal opinions. Other opinions exist and are equally valid. Science does not back up our opinion. Science is science. It is what you do with it that counts.
I don't recall anyone saying we would have to have booster jabs every 3-4 months other than you and your friends ironically. We had the booster before Christmas because we had the new variant Omicron descend on us at the worst possible time of year all round as well as a floundering leader looking to be seen to be doing the right thing as a distraction from the mess of his premiership. Unwittingly he probably made the right call. As we move into the future no doubt policy will change accordingly especially as our understanding has been increased.
I think it fair to watch this space. April is fast approaching when the NHS workers are expected to be vaccinated. I think we can expect another u-turn from our government. I would like to say it would be embarrassing but they have u-turned so often I am not sure they understand what embarrassing is.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by hotpud
I agree. All apart from the "End of story". The world is not black and white. There are arguments for and against mandatory vaccinations. All are valid. The best we can do as an individual is agree or disagree with them. Someone above was lamenting the policies put in place by the Austrian government. Pretty grim indeed. But to state "End of story" is to feed into an authoritarian, dictatorial system of society management.... just like the Austrian government.
The more folks like yourself on here dig in, the less democratic we are becoming, the less tolerant we are becoming and the more likely we are to end up in a system I know you would not enjoy.
The more folks like yourself on here dig in, the less democratic we are becoming, the less tolerant we are becoming and the more likely we are to end up in a system I know you would not enjoy.
"End of story" was merely a piece of rhetoric!
In terms of being more or less democratic, I can think of nothing more undemocratic than denying individuals the right to choose what happens to their own bodies without good reason and for no other purpose than to serve political ends.
Original post by brjf
Everyone here acting like they’re scientists, honestly just look at it from a philosophical point of view rather than a scientific one.
I don't think there is any scientific justification for mandatory vaccinations or for the pressures applied to get everyone vaccinated every 3-4 months with repeated boosters.
The criticisms here are for the politics followed and policies enforced or tried to be enforced which imo have failed to deal with the pandemic and have probably caused more harm than that disease itself.
A classical example was lockdowns that have
failed and in my view and caused more harm than good and just as Professor Woolhouse describes in his interview
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/02/britain-got-it-wrong-on-covid-long-lockdown-did-more-harm-than-good-says-scientist
Britain got it wrong on Covid: long lockdown did more harm than good, says scientist
A new book outlines the mistakes and missteps that made UK pandemic worse
About 12-15 months ago many were arguing that lockdowns were a useful and effective tool in dealing with the pandemic.
Now they are arguing that mandatory vaccinations and repeated boosters every 3-4 months are a useful and effective tool to deal with the pandemic or the endemic phase as we gradually moving into it, regardless of prior immunity i.e pre-existing immunity, natural immunity, health conditions including allergies, age and benefit to risk ratio.
In my view the idea of mandatory vaccinations and repeated boosters every 3-4 months is as terrible as the idea and of lengthy and very damaging lockdowns.
Original post by Supermature
"End of story" was merely a piece of rhetoric!
In terms of being more or less democratic, I can think of nothing more undemocratic than denying individuals the right to choose what happens to their own bodies without good reason and for no other purpose than to serve political ends.
In terms of being more or less democratic, I can think of nothing more undemocratic than denying individuals the right to choose what happens to their own bodies without good reason and for no other purpose than to serve political ends.
Indeed there is nothing more undemocratic and unscientific imo.
But not to forget that you don't expect lessons in democracy from ultra right wing Governments such as the one in Austria or from Austria, generally speaking. Furthermore you don't expect also lessons in democracy from left-wing activists who try to politicalise science and public health.
Original post by Supermature
"End of story" was merely a piece of rhetoric!
In terms of being more or less democratic, I can think of nothing more undemocratic than denying individuals the right to choose what happens to their own bodies without good reason and for no other purpose than to serve political ends.
In terms of being more or less democratic, I can think of nothing more undemocratic than denying individuals the right to choose what happens to their own bodies without good reason and for no other purpose than to serve political ends.
Agreed. But then so is laying down an opinion as a hard fact that you are not prepared to budge on. Democracy is about hearing all opinions and reaching consensus but equally accepting outcomes we might not agree with e.g. Brexit. I know you probably don't like it but I think it would be fair to hypothesise that the vast majority of British people don't have a problem with being vaccinated.
Original post by Supermature
Are mandatory Covid vaccinations justified?
[Covid-19] Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
[Covid-19] Vaccine mandates are divisive, unethical, and illogical. That is why they are not appropriate, even for NHS and care workers. There is no NHS mandate in Scotland or Wales, only England. The decision to impose one here was purely political. The medical and allied professions have always opposed the mandate and are now pleading with the UK Government to think again. The Royal College of Nursing has described the mandate as "reckless".
Government ‘considering pause’ to NHS Covid vaccine mandate
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-nhs-staff-vaccine-rules-b1998402.html
As the prime minister announced an end to England’s plan B restrictions in the Commons on Thursday, Tory MP Andrew Murrison – a former Royal Navy surgeon – challenged him to “think again” on the vaccine mandate, citing “leaked advice” from officials to ministers warning that the move “is neither rational nor proportionate given what we now know about Omicron, and its behaviour”.
Omicron has simply strengthened the argument against the mandate. Even before it was ever heard of, the medical professions were against the mandate, as were the devolved administrations. Dame Helen Stokes-Lampard, Chair of the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges, described it as 'neither necessary or proportionate'. The real purpose of the measure was to 'set an example' to the public that everybody needed to be vaccinated, like it or not. In other words, it is nothing other than a political ploy.
Original post by hotpud
I know you probably don't like it but I think it would be fair to hypothesise that the vast majority of British people don't have a problem with being vaccinated.
So far! But it's just beginning to dawn on them that to stay 'protected' they are going to have to be jabbed over and over again. I have spoken to a number of people who have had two or three doses and, on at least one occasion, have experienced serious side-effects that have made them decide to call it quits.
More importantly, I have no problem whatsoever with adults choosing to be vaccinated, provided that they are given an accurate picture of the risks as well as the benefits. Nobody has suggested forcing people not to be vaccinated.
Original post by Supermature
So far! But it's just beginning to dawn on them that to stay 'protected' they are going to have to be jabbed over and over again. I have spoken to a number of people who have had two or three doses and, on at least one occasion, have experienced serious side-effects that have made them decide to call it quits.
More importantly, I have no problem whatsoever with adults choosing to be vaccinated, provided that they are given an accurate picture of the risks as well as the benefits. Nobody has suggested forcing people not to be vaccinated.
More importantly, I have no problem whatsoever with adults choosing to be vaccinated, provided that they are given an accurate picture of the risks as well as the benefits. Nobody has suggested forcing people not to be vaccinated.
Now that we are heading towards the end of the pandemic and entering the endemic phrase the case for mandatory vaccinations and repeated shots every 3-4 months is very weak in my view. But it was never strong to start with imo according to all the arguments presented and analysed here and the science behind such political decisions.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by hotpud
I know you probably don't like it but I think it would be fair to hypothesise that the vast majority of British people don't have a problem with being vaccinated.
Very true and that is demonstrated by the high takeup of the vaccines amongst young people as well as old. Personally I would be happy to have a booster once a year if it meant that as a society we could enjoy being almost back to normal with regard to being able to travel abroad easily, not having to wear masks etc
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-nhs-staff-vaccine-rules-b1998402.html
Government ‘considering pause’ to NHS Covid vaccine mandate
Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid face pressure from MPs and some clinicians amid staffing crisis
It's about time for Government to rethink this terrible strategy in my view and stop all vaccine mandates in all sectors.
In addition imo the Government should abandon
1) Mass testing
2) Mass vaccinations
3) Mandatory vaccinations
Government ‘considering pause’ to NHS Covid vaccine mandate
Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid face pressure from MPs and some clinicians amid staffing crisis
It's about time for Government to rethink this terrible strategy in my view and stop all vaccine mandates in all sectors.
In addition imo the Government should abandon
1) Mass testing
2) Mass vaccinations
3) Mandatory vaccinations
Original post by harrysbar
Very true and that is demonstrated by the high takeup of the vaccines amongst young people as well as old. Personally I would be happy to have a booster once a year if it meant that as a society we could enjoy being almost back to normal with regard to being able to travel abroad easily, not having to wear masks etc
The normality isn't a function of vaccinations or vaccine status in my understanding. I have enjoyed being normal and without any issues by not being vaccinated with the products on the market by Astrazeneca, Pfizer, etc. I was infected early on the pandemic and had no symptoms. Hence gained very strong natural immunity and I was in no need for the two shot regime, the booster, and I am in no need for repeated shots every 3-4 months for something that my immune system has dealt with successfully long time ago. Hence I find mandatory vaccinations a joke, especially for the young and healthy who already have natural immunity.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/19/natural-immunity-gives-better-protection-against-delta-vaccines/
Natural immunity ‘gives better protection against Covid delta variant than vaccines alone’
Two more things.
You say you have no issue been jabbed once every year. That's fine by me and you. I think that the boosters are to be offered every 3-4 months and not every year. Especially for the elderly.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/covid-booster-jabs-to-be-offered-to-all-uk-adults-after-three-month-gap
Many of the young people and a good proportion of the population has been vaccinated after acquiring natural immunity so in my view their immunity shouldn't be attributed to the vaccines.
A good number of the young and healthy were reluctant to get these products and they were either pressured or coerced or even blackmailed and indirectly forced by a rather obsessive and unscientific campaign imo.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Lucifer323
The normality isn't a function of vaccinations or vaccine status in my understanding. I have enjoyed being normal and without any issues by not being vaccinated with the products on the market by Astrazeneca, Pfizer, etc. I was infected early on the pandemic and had no symptoms.
You say you have no issue been jabbed once every year. That's fine by me and you. I think that the boosters are to be offered every 3-4 months and not every year. Especially for the elderly.
You say you have no issue been jabbed once every year. That's fine by me and you. I think that the boosters are to be offered every 3-4 months and not every year. Especially for the elderly.
I'm pleased to hear you have enjoyed being normal but I don't think restrictions would have ended as quickly as they did were it not for the vaccination programme so maybe people choosing to get vaccinated should be thanked!
There are currently no plans to introduce a 4th booster in the UK - ok that could change later in the year if the data shows immunity against severe disease is waning but at the moment data from the UK Health Security Agency shows three months after boosting, protection against hospitalisation remains at about 90% for people aged 65 and over.
Perhaps I should have said I would be happy to get vaccinated every 6 months in return for normality because I would be
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59915560
Original post by Lucifer323
In addition imo the Government should abandon
1) Mass testing
2) Mass vaccinations
3) Mandatory vaccinations
1) Mass testing
2) Mass vaccinations
3) Mandatory vaccinations
All in good time.
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