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Should England join the US and leave the EU?
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lol, What would happen to the Queen!
Original post by ultimate mashup
lol, What would happen to the Queen!
She would wrestle control from Obama extremely easily and give the yanks an ultimatum: deal with the return of the empire or the consequences.
Rule Britannia
Original post by TheDubs
Is there a difference between the two?
Yes. One spells "soccer", other "football". The second spells it the right way.
Original post by DYKWIA
You don't seem to realize how much autonomy individual states get. Most governing is done by individual states, which is a good thing. You could keep many of your socialist policies and keep your gay marriage etc.
Okay, so we can keep the NHS and other welfare policies through autonomy. Great. Moving on to the other issues:
- Being militarily tied to the US.
- Westminster loses ultimate power to the Senate/Congress.
- Your country is in an even bigger financial mess, why would we want in?
- We are proud of our country, not the United States. We wish to keep our identity as a fully fledged nation, not just a small state.
No.
The UK has far more in common with Europe and the EU than with America. The UK is much more of a social democracy than the US, and in terms of laws and social attitudes it is significantly closer to Europe than America. A few examples: The death penalty is banned in the EU, and is considered a complete infringement of human rights and liberties by most of the population in the EU, whereas in the US there are places that still execute people. In the UK and EU, people are covered by their governments for healthcare, and so do not live in fear of going ill. In the UK, social attitudes towards the unemployed and the less well off are much more accepting than in the US - I remember watching the recent Republican debate, and one of the candidates (Herman Cain I think) said that the unemployed are to blame for their circumstances!
The UK is a much better place to live than the US, and certainly has more in common with the EU than the US. Canada probably has more in common with the UK/EU than the US!
The UK has far more in common with Europe and the EU than with America. The UK is much more of a social democracy than the US, and in terms of laws and social attitudes it is significantly closer to Europe than America. A few examples: The death penalty is banned in the EU, and is considered a complete infringement of human rights and liberties by most of the population in the EU, whereas in the US there are places that still execute people. In the UK and EU, people are covered by their governments for healthcare, and so do not live in fear of going ill. In the UK, social attitudes towards the unemployed and the less well off are much more accepting than in the US - I remember watching the recent Republican debate, and one of the candidates (Herman Cain I think) said that the unemployed are to blame for their circumstances!
The UK is a much better place to live than the US, and certainly has more in common with the EU than the US. Canada probably has more in common with the UK/EU than the US!
No but the US is free to rejoin the Empire
There's one upside to joining the USA and that's that England alone (I doubt that the four nations would remain in a union as a single state) is home to 51m people, 14m more than California, and by all standards England, let alone the Celtic nations, is very liberal on just about every issue compared even to the average Democrat. Overnight, we would become a huge force in the politics of the United States, and the US would become probably substantially more liberal as a direct result. The Democrats have traditionally been by far the more popular American political party on this side of the Atlantic in opinion polls.
Gay marriage? Socialised healthcare? Get used to it, 'Merica!
Gay marriage? Socialised healthcare? Get used to it, 'Merica!
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by DYKWIA
The US and UK have far more in common than people realize; far more so than someone from texas and someone from the east coast anyway and defiantly more in common than uk and France for example. A lot of Americans wanna move to britain (me included) and I get the feeling a lot of Brits wanna move too. It would be a really great thing for both countries to have the stability of being part of the largest and best country in the world.
Wasn't there a war that did the exact opposite?
Original post by DYKWIA
It would be a really great thing for both countries to have the stability of being part of the largest country in the world.
The US is not the largest country in the world, ever heard of Russia?
Original post by RyanT
No, we really don't.
A lot of people in the UK are horrified by the US. Particularly its deeply anti-Christian attitude of no universal health service, war-mongering and out of control capitalism.
I think you have to understand that one of the UKs largest parties wanted to nationalise all major industries until the 1990s (Labour). There is a completely different mentality here. I went to hospital after a cycling incident yesterday (head injury) did I worry about insurance? NO Did I have to worry about a bill I couldn't afford? NO!
American laws in the UK would cause a revolution.
If the USA and UK spoke different languages this idea would appear as absurd as unifying with Russia. There is no basis for any unification.
A lot of people in the UK are horrified by the US. Particularly its deeply anti-Christian attitude of no universal health service, war-mongering and out of control capitalism.
I think you have to understand that one of the UKs largest parties wanted to nationalise all major industries until the 1990s (Labour). There is a completely different mentality here. I went to hospital after a cycling incident yesterday (head injury) did I worry about insurance? NO Did I have to worry about a bill I couldn't afford? NO!
American laws in the UK would cause a revolution.
If the USA and UK spoke different languages this idea would appear as absurd as unifying with Russia. There is no basis for any unification.
Erm no. Outside of the former Dominions (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland and white South Africa) no one has a closer culture and governmental style to the UK than the USA. We're certainly a lot closer to the Americans than we are to any of the Europeans, the Americans just tend to be more religious and right wing. I'm saying this as someone who has travelled across the whole of the states from LA to NYC and found the people there and the culture incredibly similar and very welcoming.
Original post by fire2burn
No, the UK would never give up the NHS and likewise the US government would never want to take on the responsibility of running and funding it. The Republicans and the Tea Party movement especially would throw their toys out of the pram over it.
Well considering that Hawaii has free healthcare and the Republicans have not thrown their toys out of the pram for that state then I doubt they would for England keeping the NHS.
Do we really have more in common, or do you just not know what we have in common with Europe because of the language barrier?
For a start, much of Europe is keen on "big government" (I want to say socialist but no doubt someone will launch an attack because I used a slightly-off definition of the word whereas the impression I get from America is a large chunk of the country almost lives in fear of the government (fear is a bit strong I know!).
That alone puts a big gulf between the US and UK.
As to the person saying we could fund the NHS as a state, could we really? I'm not saying it's impossible, but would US federal law allow the UK to run the NHS for the sole use of UK residents? If out-of-state residents could use it, it would immediately collapse as everyone travels into the state for free treatment.
For a start, much of Europe is keen on "big government" (I want to say socialist but no doubt someone will launch an attack because I used a slightly-off definition of the word whereas the impression I get from America is a large chunk of the country almost lives in fear of the government (fear is a bit strong I know!).
That alone puts a big gulf between the US and UK.
As to the person saying we could fund the NHS as a state, could we really? I'm not saying it's impossible, but would US federal law allow the UK to run the NHS for the sole use of UK residents? If out-of-state residents could use it, it would immediately collapse as everyone travels into the state for free treatment.
Original post by stroppyninja
How about the US join with the UK? It seems fairer.
The United States of America
States of America
America
The United States of America
States of America
America
Hawaii is not particularly near America (north or south) yet it is part of the USA. Really it's geographically part of Oceania if you're going to link it to any continent. The UK is a bit further away, but it's not that different. Anyway, there are parts of the EU that aren't in Europe, such as French Guiana as it's part of France much in the same way Hawaii is part of the USA.
Original post by ultimate mashup
lol, What would happen to the Queen!
If the UK were to join the USA, and not the other way round, or form a new country, then she would have to go. If we joined the USA we would be bound by their constitution which doesn't allow states to have any kind of monarchy. Everyone with royal titles would have to have them stripped. So it wouldn't make sense to call it the UK. It would have to be just "Britain", or "Great Britain and Northern Ireland" (assuming it has the same territory as the current UK). Each part of the UK would probably end up as separate states anyway.
Original post by callum9999
As to the person saying we could fund the NHS as a state, could we really? I'm not saying it's impossible, but would US federal law allow the UK to run the NHS for the sole use of UK residents? If out-of-state residents could use it, it would immediately collapse as everyone travels into the state for free treatment.
As to the person saying we could fund the NHS as a state, could we really? I'm not saying it's impossible, but would US federal law allow the UK to run the NHS for the sole use of UK residents? If out-of-state residents could use it, it would immediately collapse as everyone travels into the state for free treatment.
Well I'm pretty sure some states have university funding schemes that are only for residents of that state. So that could mean the same would be allowed for health care. Plus, even if the NHS (Or SHS?) did have to give free treatment to people from other states, Britain wouldn't be flooded with people coming for the healthcare because it's still going to cost a fair amount to fly here.
Original post by tehFrance
Well considering that Hawaii has free healthcare and the Republicans have not thrown their toys out of the pram for that state then I doubt they would for England keeping the NHS.
Does it? The only sources I find say employers are forced to pay for full time employees insurance and uninsured children are covered by a government insurance program that still charges $7 just to visit the doctor (not a lot I know, but not "free"). Hardly what I'd call "free healthcare" and not remotely on a scale anywhere near the NHS.
EDIT: And that government scheme appears to have been scrapped (though I read that on a weird transcript thing from Fox News so obviously they would have put as big a negative spin on it as they possibly could!).
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Psyk
Well I'm pretty sure some states have university funding schemes that are only for residents of that state. So that could mean the same would be allowed for health care. Plus, even if the NHS (Or SHS?) did have to give free treatment to people from other states, Britain wouldn't be flooded with people coming for the healthcare because it's still going to cost a fair amount to fly here.
Ah that could work then.
I assumed with transatlantic flights now being "domestic" they would roughly half in price. I know when I flew to America, something like 80% of my ticket was in tax.
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