Imperial vs. MIT

kosine90

is it because american universities generally have more resources, thus can afford more?

Yep.
I think Imperial could be the MIT of England and is heading in the right direction but there are a few problems.
Firstly the Brain Drain prob, due to underfunding and the fact that USA has the most powerful economy in the world, their uni's have amazing reputations and everyone wants to go to them rather than British ones(apart from oxbridge). It's the name that does it.
Secondly, people who apply to MIT usually have it as their first choice or on an equal level with Harvard, princeton, stamford etc. Whereas here, most people trying for imperial have the capabilty to try for Oxbridge and so do, and therefore will nearly always pick oxbridge over imperial (mainly for the 'name'), if they get it.
This means that whilst MIT is grabbing all the best brains, Imperial loses brains to the states and oxbridge.

The quality of teaching at Imperial is undoubtedly very good, and over here it certainly has a good name, but for it to become more known world wide, it needs more funding and needs to get the oxbridge people to come to itself instead, like how sometimes people find it hard to choose between LSE and oxbridge. Basically imperial is seen as a little below oxbridge, just because of those institutions being so old in comparison, whereas everything else about it is very impressive and I feel on the same level if not better than oxbridge.

MIT is seen on the same level as Harvard, yale and so on, and it is easier for the USA to spread their universities names throught televisions programmes etc. This increases their prestige and encourages people to come there, and of course this will help funding. Also in terms of age I doubt Harvard or Yale is like 6 centuries older than MIT. Dates would be helpful here. I don't think other USA uni's like harvard are more established than MIT.

Edit: I've gone off on a tangent here lol. :rolleyes:

Reply 7

Petrozzi

10

Agree with BossLady mostly, though I wish IC would hurry up and overtake Oxbridge because the elitism that surrounds it really does piss me off... :smile:

MIT isn't classified as an Ivy League College, another interesting fact. Ivy League is similar to UKs Russel Group though, quite clearly some dispute as to Colleges/Universities that should/shouldn't be in the list.

Still, as a modern city loving compsci, the thought of being at MIT = sexwee.

Reply 8

Petrozzi

Agree with BossLady mostly, though I wish IC would hurry up and overtake Oxbridge because the elitism that surrounds it really does piss me off... :smile:

Same, I do wish it would hurry up, but IC certainly has the capability to overtake oxbridge soon. It has already overtaken oxford (in quality rather than 'name', although IC is getting more famous by the minute) and is now tackling cambridge! Our country has an obsession with oxbridge though!

MIT isn't classified as an Ivy League College, another interesting fact. Ivy League is similar to UKs Russel Group though, quite clearly some dispute as to Colleges/Universities that should/shouldn't be in the list.

Stamford isn't either is it? Although at least with the Ivy league they're all reputable (i think...), whereas I have my doubts about a couple of the institutes in the Russell Group.

Still, as a modern city loving compsci, the thought of being at MIT = sexwee.

Are you at imperial doing comp sci?? (well computing).

Tis where I'll be and what I'll be doing next year :smile:

(if i make the grades :frown:

)

Reply 9

BossLady

Same, I do wish it would hurry up, but IC certainly has the capability to overtake oxbridge soon. It has already overtaken oxford (in quality rather than 'name', although IC is getting more famous by the minute) and is now tackling cambridge! Our country has an obsession with oxbridge though!

Hardly.

Reply 10

Bigcnee

Hardly.

If you want to disagree, at least explain yourself, otherwise don't bother posting.

Reply 11

kosine90

OP

hey, interesting :wink:

hmm.. i know that there have been lots of discussion about the rising fees of UK universities etc. [hey, this is just some random thoughts.. i dont intend to criticise or anything bad.. :smile:

] Compared to american schools, though, they're not expensive. Although MIT, harvard, and other american schools are expensive, they are able to give a lot of financial aids to the qualified students who need them.

so, its like some cycle, right? if uk schools rise fees, they'll have more resources to increase quality of teaching, research, etc. Thus, they'll be able to compete against american universities! (quality, reputation -wise). It follows that when these universities grow rich, they'll be able to provide plenty of financial aids to students who needs them (thus, high tuition fees will not decrease the number of qualified students attending, as opposed to common opinion that less students will be able to pay for university education).

hmm.. should uk uni's follow american uni's tricks?

about ivy league... it is mainly a group of good-old-east coast schools (harvard, yale, columbia, cornell, duke, etc.). although Stanford + MIT are excellent, they arent ivy league (its buildings arent covered by ivies! :wink:

supposedly...)

Reply 12

BossLady

If you want to disagree, at least explain yourself, otherwise don't bother posting.

I really don't know how you can justify that Imperial has "overtaken Oxford" and is "tackling Cambridge". I suggest this is based on an adopted wish, rather than actual evidence.

Reply 13

Bigcnee

I really don't know how you can justify that Imperial has "overtaken Oxford" and is "tackling Cambridge". I suggest this is based on an adopted wish, rather than actual evidence.

If we are analysing on course quality then yes I do feel Imperial has overtaken oxford. I think that oxford's sciences have slackened somewhat and imperial tends to outrank it in most.

Also read :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College,_London

I quote
"In the last few years, Imperial has boasted the largest research income of any UK university. It is consistently ranked in the top four in the country for academic prowess, often above Oxford University. "

I think there is a general consensus that oxford sciences have been slipping. Indeed, acquaintances of mine tried for oxford over cambridge for a number of science subjects because they felt that it would be easier to get into.

Reply 14

J.S.

7

Bigcnee

I really don't know how you can justify that Imperial has "overtaken Oxford" and is "tackling Cambridge". I suggest this is based on an adopted wish, rather than actual evidence.

I too found this amusing :smile:

Also, as for the name, IC is actually about....er....800 years behind Oxford, probably even more. Outside of the UK, almost nobody has even heard of Imperial, whereas Oxford is *easily* the best known university in the world.

Also, it's more than the name, it's the system of teaching at Oxbridge, the tutorial system there. Also, it has the advantage over IC that it's multi faculty and therefore not full of the sort of students that seem to gather around IC (I believe this point has been well documented :smile:

).

Another point is that IC has in comparison to MIT at least and even Oxford and Cambridge a very 'ordinary' graduate school. It's postgrad. degrees have an 'open door' admissions policy, you cannot even begin to compare the standard of the typical Oxbridge PhD to IC's equivalent.

Also, Oxford still has some of themost prestigious faculties in the world, whcih attract Rhodes scholars and many othes fom MIT, Yale, Stanford, Havard on a very consistent basis, you simply cannot do that at IC. Even if you compare it with the LSE, IC as practically no international reputation, give me a list of its famous alumni?

Reply 15

BossLady

If we are analysing on course quality then yes I do feel Imperial has overtaken oxford. I think that oxford's sciences have slackened somewhat and imperial tends to outrank it in most.

Also read :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College,_London

I quote
"In the last few years, Imperial has boasted the largest research income of any UK university. It is consistently ranked in the top four in the country for academic prowess, often above Oxford University. "

I think there is a general consensus that oxford sciences have been slipping. Indeed, acquaintances of mine tried for oxford over cambridge for a number of science subjects because they felt that it would be easier to get into.

Indeed there is, but there has also been word that Imperial is doing the same.

Reply 16

kildare

8

To clear up a previous point, the Ivy league is simply a NCAA Division 1 sport's conference in the north east of the U.S(which I did contemplating in a while). MIT can not be 'member' as its smaller and thus cannot provide the financial support for a D1 sport school (it competes in D3). Stanford meanwhile (who incidently, would piss on the entire Ivy League regardless of the sport) isn't part of it because well, it's on the opposite side of the country.

Reply 17

Bigcnee

Indeed there is, but there has also been word that Imperial is doing the same.

!!

I still have the faith :biggrin:

Reply 18

Jamie Frost

6

Petrozzi

I'm very anti-Oxbridge due to "tally-ho" people who get in, have much respect for the ghetto candidates there though.

I highly resent that comment, and can't help think of you as a stupid judgemental snob.
Firstly, the reality is that very few people at Oxford are actually 'posh'. At my interview for Worcester College, the was NOT A SINGLE posh person.
Secondly, I don't see what you have against posh people. My sister (at Keble college) has posh friends (as in, have a posh accent, rich), and they're extremely nice people (I've met them myself). My sis tells me how posh people at the uni often receive grief on the streets of Oxford by brainless abusive idiots.
My thoughts are that you are one of the brainless idiots, probably jealous that you can't get into Oxbridge yourself.

Reply 19