Careers in Finance: some thoughts
Hi all,
I won't bother you with my background, or dreams, also cause are not relevant. What I would like to know is, in your opinion, which finance career would you pursue (academic and/or job positions) if you had to equally balance these three elements:
-math/calculus
-reasoning (analytical, strategic, etc, it doesn't matter)
-people interaction
In Finance it's always easy to find careers that focus a lot on one point only (say, Quants, focusing a lot on the first).
Please, do motivate your answers if you can.
I won't bother you with my background, or dreams, also cause are not relevant. What I would like to know is, in your opinion, which finance career would you pursue (academic and/or job positions) if you had to equally balance these three elements:
-math/calculus
-reasoning (analytical, strategic, etc, it doesn't matter)
-people interaction
In Finance it's always easy to find careers that focus a lot on one point only (say, Quants, focusing a lot on the first).
Please, do motivate your answers if you can.
Scroll to see replies
You need to do some more of your own research, several roles fit what you are looking for.
Original post by Tokyoround
You need to do some more of your own research, several roles fit what you are looking for.
I understand that, I was just looking for "human" opinions rather than webpages where each and every job entails every skill and X is the best career out there.
Do you have any suggestion to get data which is filtered from that?
Original post by Harvey008
Hi all,
I won't bother you with my background, or dreams, also cause are not relevant. What I would like to know is, in your opinion, which finance career would you pursue (academic and/or job positions) if you had to equally balance these three elements:
-math/calculus
-reasoning (analytical, strategic, etc, it doesn't matter)
-people interaction
In Finance it's always easy to find careers that focus a lot on one point only (say, Quants, focusing a lot on the first).
Please, do motivate your answers if you can.
I won't bother you with my background, or dreams, also cause are not relevant. What I would like to know is, in your opinion, which finance career would you pursue (academic and/or job positions) if you had to equally balance these three elements:
-math/calculus
-reasoning (analytical, strategic, etc, it doesn't matter)
-people interaction
In Finance it's always easy to find careers that focus a lot on one point only (say, Quants, focusing a lot on the first).
Please, do motivate your answers if you can.
Why do you want to work with calculus? Are you a calculus expert or something?
Original post by Hedgeman49
Why do you want to work with calculus? Are you a calculus expert or something?
He is. He knows the mean value theorem and all
Original post by Hedgeman49
Why do you want to work with calculus? Are you a calculus expert or something?
I actually didn't mean that. I'm EU and I've been deceived by a "false friend". What I was meaning is generic calculation (say, ratios).
I definitely am not a calculus expert nor I desire to learn more about it.
I am doing some research by myself, as advised early, and of course I am finding that the jobs closer to my description are the most glamorous and difficult to get in (Analyst positions, to mention one).
I am trying to get my head around Investment Management. I like many concepts behind it, but the idea of trading (as in, operating on markets relying on technical analysis, algorithms, and such) really doesn't tickle my fancy. Am I looking in the wrong direction?
Original post by nohomo
He is. He knows the mean value theorem and all
I just thought that word had a different meaning, given its similarity with "calculation", my mistake.
God, I googled that theorem and it made me sick in five seconds!
Original post by Harvey008
I just thought that word had a different meaning, given its similarity with "calculation", my mistake.
God, I googled that theorem and it made me sick in five seconds!
I just thought that word had a different meaning, given its similarity with "calculation", my mistake.
God, I googled that theorem and it made me sick in five seconds!
It's not considered that complicated!
That was the joke. It's covered in first or second year of a lot of maths degrees.
Harvey008
Hey, it seems that you have not recieved any substantial replies so I will take a shot at it.
There are a few entry level posistions I am aware of in the financial sector if you are looking at high finance roles instead off accountancy or insurance. The ones I am going to list are not quant posistion and so are not focused solely on the maths and instead involve use of a more varied skill set.
Investment banking analyst
Equity research associate
Asset management front office role
Might be worth checking these out, there is a wealth of information out there. I was going to include a write up of what they involved but realised when I went to write this post that I am not too clear about what they entail myself, its amazing how you only realise what you really know when you have to explain it to someone else!
Good luck!
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by CWE
Hey, it seems that you have not recieved any substantial replies so I will take a shot at it.
There are a few entry level posistions I am aware of in the financial sector if you are looking at high finance roles instead off accountancy or insurance. The ones I am going to list are not quant posistion and so are not focused solely on the maths and instead involve use of a more varied skill set.
Investment banking analyst
Equity research associate
Asset management front office role
Might be worth checking these out, there is a wealth of information out there. I was going to include a write up of what they involved but realised when I went to write this post that I am not too clear about what they entail myself, its amazing how you only realise what you really know when you have to explain it to someone else!
Good luck!
There are a few entry level posistions I am aware of in the financial sector if you are looking at high finance roles instead off accountancy or insurance. The ones I am going to list are not quant posistion and so are not focused solely on the maths and instead involve use of a more varied skill set.
Investment banking analyst
Equity research associate
Asset management front office role
Might be worth checking these out, there is a wealth of information out there. I was going to include a write up of what they involved but realised when I went to write this post that I am not too clear about what they entail myself, its amazing how you only realise what you really know when you have to explain it to someone else!
Good luck!
First, thanks a lot for your answer.
I was checking some of those out already, but IB might definitely be out of my reach, mostly cause if I decide to study, it won't be at any target uni, and I want to keep it realistic.
Original post by nohomo
It's not considered that complicated!
That was the joke. It's covered in first or second year of a lot of maths degrees.
That was the joke. It's covered in first or second year of a lot of maths degrees.
The award for nerdiest joke goes too.... Nohomo!
Original post by AW1983
Maybe take a look at Risk Management roles. A growth area in the short term will be liquidity risk as firms meet the requirements of CRD IV when this is rolled out.
Roles in risk might be fine, but studying a Msc in Risk might be narrowing my options too much.
I was thinking of going generic with the Msc (e.g Finance), and, if needed, get some Certificates/Diplomas here and there to better qualify my interests. Is it a bad idea?
Yeah, I've mentioned in another post that I don't think it's normal to begin a finance career in Risk. It might happen, but all the Risk professionals I know started in an operations or analyst role and then moved into Risk when they became an SME in their field. Even if you can start in Risk from the outset, I wouldn't recommend it; you seem to have a sensible attitude to that already because you indicate that don't want to narrow your options early.
I would agree an MSc in Finance would make far more sense than one in Risk at this stage of your career. Maybe take the opportunity to do one Risk module though to get a flavour for it; it's a big growth area in the industry so even if you don't work in Risk there's an expectation that anyone who aspires to a leadership role will have some degree of skill in risk management these days. I also know far more Risk professionals with an MSc in Finance than one in Risk Management, as these Risk Management qualifications don't always specialise in risk in financial services.
If you later decide Risk is the path for you, then what you do next will depend on the area that interests you. Risk is of course exceptionally broad to the point that it's difficult to talk about it as a single field. All the areas have a similar 'high level' aim of course, but these vary from Compliance, to Internal Audit, Controls Management, Liquidity, Market Risk, Credit Risk, Operational Risk, Product Risk etc etc. The types of people working in Risk also vary significantly as well. I definitely fall into the 'poet' category and work in Regulatory Risk. Colleagues are very much quants and work in areas like Liquidity Risk.
In turn, the types of qualification you will look to do will vary. I'm a recent inductee to risk management and I'm doing the ICA Diploma in Compliance followed by the CISI Diploma. Someone doing liquidity risk is more likely to either have a masters or do GARP's Financial Risk Manager programme. Others still will be doing the Institute of Risk Management's professional qualification. Business Continuity Specialists (quite a good area if you like technology but don't want to limit yourself to technology roles) have their own institute. Technology risk is a field you can go into if you like ICT. Again, it is diverse, because maybe you will work in system stability, or cyber crime defence etc.
I've prattled on for far too long now! So I will just close by saying MSc Finance a great idea, try and get a first role with broad scope for future moves and take it from there.
I would agree an MSc in Finance would make far more sense than one in Risk at this stage of your career. Maybe take the opportunity to do one Risk module though to get a flavour for it; it's a big growth area in the industry so even if you don't work in Risk there's an expectation that anyone who aspires to a leadership role will have some degree of skill in risk management these days. I also know far more Risk professionals with an MSc in Finance than one in Risk Management, as these Risk Management qualifications don't always specialise in risk in financial services.
If you later decide Risk is the path for you, then what you do next will depend on the area that interests you. Risk is of course exceptionally broad to the point that it's difficult to talk about it as a single field. All the areas have a similar 'high level' aim of course, but these vary from Compliance, to Internal Audit, Controls Management, Liquidity, Market Risk, Credit Risk, Operational Risk, Product Risk etc etc. The types of people working in Risk also vary significantly as well. I definitely fall into the 'poet' category and work in Regulatory Risk. Colleagues are very much quants and work in areas like Liquidity Risk.
In turn, the types of qualification you will look to do will vary. I'm a recent inductee to risk management and I'm doing the ICA Diploma in Compliance followed by the CISI Diploma. Someone doing liquidity risk is more likely to either have a masters or do GARP's Financial Risk Manager programme. Others still will be doing the Institute of Risk Management's professional qualification. Business Continuity Specialists (quite a good area if you like technology but don't want to limit yourself to technology roles) have their own institute. Technology risk is a field you can go into if you like ICT. Again, it is diverse, because maybe you will work in system stability, or cyber crime defence etc.
I've prattled on for far too long now! So I will just close by saying MSc Finance a great idea, try and get a first role with broad scope for future moves and take it from there.
Original post by AW1983
Yeah, I've mentioned in another post that I don't think it's normal to begin a finance career in Risk. It might happen, but all the Risk professionals I know started in an operations or analyst role and then moved into Risk when they became an SME in their field. Even if you can start in Risk from the outset, I wouldn't recommend it; you seem to have a sensible attitude to that already because you indicate that don't want to narrow your options early.
I would agree an MSc in Finance would make far more sense than one in Risk at this stage of your career. Maybe take the opportunity to do one Risk module though to get a flavour for it; it's a big growth area in the industry so even if you don't work in Risk there's an expectation that anyone who aspires to a leadership role will have some degree of skill in risk management these days. I also know far more Risk professionals with an MSc in Finance than one in Risk Management, as these Risk Management qualifications don't always specialise in risk in financial services.
If you later decide Risk is the path for you, then what you do next will depend on the area that interests you. Risk is of course exceptionally broad to the point that it's difficult to talk about it as a single field. All the areas have a similar 'high level' aim of course, but these vary from Compliance, to Internal Audit, Controls Management, Liquidity, Market Risk, Credit Risk, Operational Risk, Product Risk etc etc. The types of people working in Risk also vary significantly as well. I definitely fall into the 'poet' category and work in Regulatory Risk. Colleagues are very much quants and work in areas like Liquidity Risk.
In turn, the types of qualification you will look to do will vary. I'm a recent inductee to risk management and I'm doing the ICA Diploma in Compliance followed by the CISI Diploma. Someone doing liquidity risk is more likely to either have a masters or do GARP's Financial Risk Manager programme. Others still will be doing the Institute of Risk Management's professional qualification. Business Continuity Specialists (quite a good area if you like technology but don't want to limit yourself to technology roles) have their own institute. Technology risk is a field you can go into if you like ICT. Again, it is diverse, because maybe you will work in system stability, or cyber crime defence etc.
I've prattled on for far too long now! So I will just close by saying MSc Finance a great idea, try and get a first role with broad scope for future moves and take it from there.
I would agree an MSc in Finance would make far more sense than one in Risk at this stage of your career. Maybe take the opportunity to do one Risk module though to get a flavour for it; it's a big growth area in the industry so even if you don't work in Risk there's an expectation that anyone who aspires to a leadership role will have some degree of skill in risk management these days. I also know far more Risk professionals with an MSc in Finance than one in Risk Management, as these Risk Management qualifications don't always specialise in risk in financial services.
If you later decide Risk is the path for you, then what you do next will depend on the area that interests you. Risk is of course exceptionally broad to the point that it's difficult to talk about it as a single field. All the areas have a similar 'high level' aim of course, but these vary from Compliance, to Internal Audit, Controls Management, Liquidity, Market Risk, Credit Risk, Operational Risk, Product Risk etc etc. The types of people working in Risk also vary significantly as well. I definitely fall into the 'poet' category and work in Regulatory Risk. Colleagues are very much quants and work in areas like Liquidity Risk.
In turn, the types of qualification you will look to do will vary. I'm a recent inductee to risk management and I'm doing the ICA Diploma in Compliance followed by the CISI Diploma. Someone doing liquidity risk is more likely to either have a masters or do GARP's Financial Risk Manager programme. Others still will be doing the Institute of Risk Management's professional qualification. Business Continuity Specialists (quite a good area if you like technology but don't want to limit yourself to technology roles) have their own institute. Technology risk is a field you can go into if you like ICT. Again, it is diverse, because maybe you will work in system stability, or cyber crime defence etc.
I've prattled on for far too long now! So I will just close by saying MSc Finance a great idea, try and get a first role with broad scope for future moves and take it from there.
I would definitely say that you know your stuff!
I would like to be a "poet" too, not necessarily in risk, and I want to work possibly in groups, or anyway interacting with human beings at least a bit.
About technology, never been a huge fan, but I see there are lots of qualifications to choose from.
Even though the vast majority of Finance programs don't have much space dedicated to Risk as a subject, I guess it's more of a thing you find yourself into later on in your career.
Now the problem will be getting out of uni at around 28 with very little work experience, not even related to finance. Yay. I'll try not to get depressed, too late to fix that, I just hope not to waste all the money I'll be paying for tuition.
Original post by Harvey008
I would definitely say that you know your stuff!
I would like to be a "poet" too, not necessarily in risk, and I want to work possibly in groups, or anyway interacting with human beings at least a bit.
About technology, never been a huge fan, but I see there are lots of qualifications to choose from.
Even though the vast majority of Finance programs don't have much space dedicated to Risk as a subject, I guess it's more of a thing you find yourself into later on in your career.
Now the problem will be getting out of uni at around 28 with very little work experience, not even related to finance. Yay. I'll try not to get depressed, too late to fix that, I just hope not to waste all the money I'll be paying for tuition.
I would like to be a "poet" too, not necessarily in risk, and I want to work possibly in groups, or anyway interacting with human beings at least a bit.
About technology, never been a huge fan, but I see there are lots of qualifications to choose from.
Even though the vast majority of Finance programs don't have much space dedicated to Risk as a subject, I guess it's more of a thing you find yourself into later on in your career.
Now the problem will be getting out of uni at around 28 with very little work experience, not even related to finance. Yay. I'll try not to get depressed, too late to fix that, I just hope not to waste all the money I'll be paying for tuition.
You don't choose to be a poet or a quant, it's just who you are
Use of technology has always been significant in my industry since I began in 2003 but it's really ramping up now. It's a massive growth area and all those people doing law degrees now not out of interest but for a high paid career are frankly studying the wrong thing. Technology got a bad rap for its offshorability but in truth technology professionals are in short supply in the UK.
If you want a Finance degree with a decent amount of risk management in the syllabus, take a look at ICMA (part of Henley Business School, University of Reading - the same school offers triple accredited MBAs. It's not Harvard or even Warwick, but it's still a heavyweight).
I haven't read through this thread yet so apologies if any answers to my questions have already been provided but I was just wondering if anyone can help me out.
I've recently graduated from university with a degree in Bsc Economics, however, I am unsure about the future career I wish to pursue. I was thinking of going into something involving finance, possibly accounting.
Firstly, is it more beneficial to look for graduate schemes or would a small local company be equally beneficial to apply for?
Secondly, If I was to choose to be qualified as an accountant after gaining the necessary qualifications would I still be able to further my career in other areas as I get older because I don't like the thought of being stuck in the same job forever and would like to work towards a salary of £40k+ ideally.
Any advice or knowledge shared on the various routes/qualifications that would be good to gain in the world of finance would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers guys!
I've recently graduated from university with a degree in Bsc Economics, however, I am unsure about the future career I wish to pursue. I was thinking of going into something involving finance, possibly accounting.
Firstly, is it more beneficial to look for graduate schemes or would a small local company be equally beneficial to apply for?
Secondly, If I was to choose to be qualified as an accountant after gaining the necessary qualifications would I still be able to further my career in other areas as I get older because I don't like the thought of being stuck in the same job forever and would like to work towards a salary of £40k+ ideally.
Any advice or knowledge shared on the various routes/qualifications that would be good to gain in the world of finance would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers guys!
Firstly, is it more beneficial to look for graduate schemes or would a small local company be equally beneficial to apply for?
If you're looking at accountancy, then the firm you choose will have as much if not more of an influence on your future career than the accountancy body you choose to study with. Generally speaking, you should aim for a Big 4 graduate scheme (KPMG, Deloitte, Ernst & Young and PwC) for the best prospects although slightly smaller firms like Grant Thornton or Baker Tilly sometimes suit people's personalities better and are still highly reputable. Another route is to go into industry rather than practice; financial institutions like banks and asset managers train accountants and offer very lucrative careers although they tend to offer ACCA rather than ACA.
Secondly, If I was to choose to be qualified as an accountant after gaining the necessary qualifications would I still be able to further my career in other areas as I get older because I don't like the thought of being stuck in the same job forever and would like to work towards a salary of £40k+ ideally.
You'll generally get £40k or more if you're a qualified accountant anyway. If you get the ACA, it will open a lot of doors and you will be able to take your career in a lot of directions. In practical terms, you will have a qualification that will open up career opportunities abroad and you'll have a wide array of business skills that won't pigeon hole you into only accountancy roles.
Original post by AW1983
If you're looking at accountancy, then the firm you choose will have as much if not more of an influence on your future career than the accountancy body you choose to study with. Generally speaking, you should aim for a Big 4 graduate scheme (KPMG, Deloitte, Ernst & Young and PwC) for the best prospects although slightly smaller firms like Grant Thornton or Baker Tilly sometimes suit people's personalities better and are still highly reputable. Another route is to go into industry rather than practice; financial institutions like banks and asset managers train accountants and offer very lucrative careers although they tend to offer ACCA rather than ACA.
Thank you for your response, I appreciate the help! Would you mind briefly explain some of the other financial qualifications, which are useful when starting a career in finance, if you know anything about them? Or would an ACA be a well rounded qualification even if you wish to move into areas such as tax, insurance etc, as I've seen some grad schemes offering accounting work in these areas.
'll start by saying I'm giving you a view very much from the banking and financial services industry as this is my background; finance in industry is (probably) largely limited to CIMA, ACCA and the AAT.
There are an awful lot of qualifications out there but some tend to stand out. II know more about the back to middle office of a financial institution than the front office, although generally the qualification I come across from my colleagues in that field above all else is Chartered Financial Analyst (most of the people I know from this area, which truth be told is not many, started with the Investment Management Certificate). GARP's Financial Risk Manager qualification seems popular too and also many of the most advanced quants have masters degrees or greater in fields such as Physics or Mathematics. Someone with a front office background will be able to give you a lot more colour.
In the back to middle office I would sub-divide qualifications into 'openers' and 'specialist.' Openers are good ones to get a solid grounding in the industry whereas specialist are obviously for when you find your niche. Some arguably fall into both categories depending on what you plan to do with them; for example, the ACA opens an awful lot of doors but is also clearly an ideal qualification for a CFO role. Actually, what you will find is that the ones I categorise as specialist just aren't very useful when more broadly applied.
OPENERS
Chartered Accountancy (ICAEW, ICAS, ICAI and, hopefully no one will shoot me for putting it here, ACCA)
Management Accountancy (CIMA)
Accounting (less prestigious than above qualifications) (AAT)
Masters in Finance
Chartered Secretary (good for people who like to have a good grounding in both accounting and law without specialising in either)
Chartered Banker (probably more useful for retail historically, but growing in appeal for wholesale banking)
CISI Investment Operations Certificate (including module choices so you can choose where to focus)
CISI Diplomas (as above)
You may also choose to become a financial services lawyer (GDL then LPC or BPTC), although I'm guessing this is not your chosen path.
SPECIALIST
ICA Diploma in Compliance
ICA Diploma in Anti-Money Laundering
ICA Diploma in Financial Crime
CISI Diploma in Investment Compliance
CISI Diploma in Investment Operations
Institute of Risk Management Diploma (opt to specialise in financial services)
Chartered Institute of Taxation
Association of Taxation Technicians
CFA Institute's Performance Management Diploma
ICAS and the Chartered Banker institute have a joint diploma in fund accounting
Diploma in Fund Administration
Society of Trust & Estate Practitioners Diploma
Chartered Institute of Internal Auditors (arguably an opener)
Also, you may choose to be in a support function and may want to take Technology qualifications (BCS) or HR qualifications (CIPD), for example.
Hope that helps. There are plenty of other qualifications but I generally recommend doing an 'opener' first then choosing where to specialise.
There are an awful lot of qualifications out there but some tend to stand out. II know more about the back to middle office of a financial institution than the front office, although generally the qualification I come across from my colleagues in that field above all else is Chartered Financial Analyst (most of the people I know from this area, which truth be told is not many, started with the Investment Management Certificate). GARP's Financial Risk Manager qualification seems popular too and also many of the most advanced quants have masters degrees or greater in fields such as Physics or Mathematics. Someone with a front office background will be able to give you a lot more colour.
In the back to middle office I would sub-divide qualifications into 'openers' and 'specialist.' Openers are good ones to get a solid grounding in the industry whereas specialist are obviously for when you find your niche. Some arguably fall into both categories depending on what you plan to do with them; for example, the ACA opens an awful lot of doors but is also clearly an ideal qualification for a CFO role. Actually, what you will find is that the ones I categorise as specialist just aren't very useful when more broadly applied.
OPENERS
Chartered Accountancy (ICAEW, ICAS, ICAI and, hopefully no one will shoot me for putting it here, ACCA)
Management Accountancy (CIMA)
Accounting (less prestigious than above qualifications) (AAT)
Masters in Finance
Chartered Secretary (good for people who like to have a good grounding in both accounting and law without specialising in either)
Chartered Banker (probably more useful for retail historically, but growing in appeal for wholesale banking)
CISI Investment Operations Certificate (including module choices so you can choose where to focus)
CISI Diplomas (as above)
You may also choose to become a financial services lawyer (GDL then LPC or BPTC), although I'm guessing this is not your chosen path.
SPECIALIST
ICA Diploma in Compliance
ICA Diploma in Anti-Money Laundering
ICA Diploma in Financial Crime
CISI Diploma in Investment Compliance
CISI Diploma in Investment Operations
Institute of Risk Management Diploma (opt to specialise in financial services)
Chartered Institute of Taxation
Association of Taxation Technicians
CFA Institute's Performance Management Diploma
ICAS and the Chartered Banker institute have a joint diploma in fund accounting
Diploma in Fund Administration
Society of Trust & Estate Practitioners Diploma
Chartered Institute of Internal Auditors (arguably an opener)
Also, you may choose to be in a support function and may want to take Technology qualifications (BCS) or HR qualifications (CIPD), for example.
Hope that helps. There are plenty of other qualifications but I generally recommend doing an 'opener' first then choosing where to specialise.
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