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Would you be offended if I refused to eat Halal?
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Original post by Jacob :)
If I came to your house for a meal and you served Halal meat which I refused to eat it would you be offended?
It would be on the grounds that the animal may not have been killed in the most humane way possible and I don't want to eat something killed in the name of a god I don't believe in and whose teachings I don't like.
So would you be offended and on future occasions would you be willing to cook me non halal meat? As some vegetarians will cook meat for their non vege friends?
Edit: Obviously, this is a question for Muslims.
Edit: Thanks for the advice on letting the chef know in advance. The only problem is how to know if someone is a Muslim. I know some people are very open about their faith but others are not. It might be seen as insensitive if I asked ever person of Arab/ SE Asian/ E African decent if they are a Muslim when they invite me over.
It would be on the grounds that the animal may not have been killed in the most humane way possible and I don't want to eat something killed in the name of a god I don't believe in and whose teachings I don't like.
So would you be offended and on future occasions would you be willing to cook me non halal meat? As some vegetarians will cook meat for their non vege friends?
Edit: Obviously, this is a question for Muslims.
Edit: Thanks for the advice on letting the chef know in advance. The only problem is how to know if someone is a Muslim. I know some people are very open about their faith but others are not. It might be seen as insensitive if I asked ever person of Arab/ SE Asian/ E African decent if they are a Muslim when they invite me over.
I would if you had a hissyfit over it at my house. However, if you just politely mentioned that you don't want to eat meat, that'd be completely fine. Giving your reasons aren't necessary.
And no, I wouldn't cook non-halal meat for you, I'd just make something without meat for you thereafter, like pasta, etc.
In islam you are supposed to slice the the throat of the animal , the animal dies quickly with as little suffering as possible , so why do you say its inhumane , I believe its more humane then other ways of animal slaughter however even if u dont share my view , why would it be less humane then these other forms . Therefore your argument of not eating it because its inhumane is false in many grounds , furthermore u sound like a dumbass.
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Original post by rockrunride
Halal slaughter isn't humane? And killing animals in the first place is?
I'm not a vegetarian, but sending Muslims on a faux-guilt trip and alleging it's to do with 'humane' animal slaughter is hilarious. It's another thinly veiled attack on Islam.
Look at mass meat and battery egg production, watch videos of non-halal animal slaughter, and tell me that's humane. ****ing hypocrites. If you so much as minutely cared for animal welfare, you really wouldn't consume meat.
I'm not a vegetarian, but sending Muslims on a faux-guilt trip and alleging it's to do with 'humane' animal slaughter is hilarious. It's another thinly veiled attack on Islam.
Look at mass meat and battery egg production, watch videos of non-halal animal slaughter, and tell me that's humane. ****ing hypocrites. If you so much as minutely cared for animal welfare, you really wouldn't consume meat.
lol, exactly. Misrepresentation is awesome just because of the innate response it can produce. Unfortunately, some TSRians know this all too well.
Original post by Jacob :)
If I came to your house for a meal and you served Halal meat which I refused to eat it would you be offended?
It would be on the grounds that the animal may not have been killed in the most humane way possible and I don't want to eat something killed in the name of a god I don't believe in and whose teachings I don't like.
So would you be offended and on future occasions would you be willing to cook me non halal meat? As some vegetarians will cook meat for their non vege friends?
Edit: Obviously, this is a question for Muslims.
Edit: Thanks for the advice on letting the chef know in advance. The only problem is how to know if someone is a Muslim. I know some people are very open about their faith but others are not. It might be seen as insensitive if I asked ever person of Arab/ SE Asian/ E African decent if they are a Muslim when they invite me over.
It would be on the grounds that the animal may not have been killed in the most humane way possible and I don't want to eat something killed in the name of a god I don't believe in and whose teachings I don't like.
So would you be offended and on future occasions would you be willing to cook me non halal meat? As some vegetarians will cook meat for their non vege friends?
Edit: Obviously, this is a question for Muslims.
Edit: Thanks for the advice on letting the chef know in advance. The only problem is how to know if someone is a Muslim. I know some people are very open about their faith but others are not. It might be seen as insensitive if I asked ever person of Arab/ SE Asian/ E African decent if they are a Muslim when they invite me over.
No, I would not be offended. Refraining from eating meat that is religiously "treated" is understandable, whether it is halal, kosher or something else. But you would have to (politely) inform me of that beforehand.
I am not Muslim, so I would not mind preparing non-halal meat for a guest. But there is no point in trying to guess if someone is Muslim or not, because many non-Muslims (like me) normally use halal meat, so you might end up eating halal meat from a non-Muslim's house. So if you have a dietary requirement, it is a good idea to tell the relevant person instead of trying to guess their religion.
Original post by Error4001
So you would rather stun them?
But if the arteries and veins are cut, then please tell me how blood would be pumped from the heart to the brain if there is a massive gaping hole between the heart and brain (ie the throat)?
And is stunning successful in every case?
I meant passing poultry through electrically charged water. Is that "humane"?
But if the arteries and veins are cut, then please tell me how blood would be pumped from the heart to the brain if there is a massive gaping hole between the heart and brain (ie the throat)?
And is stunning successful in every case?
I meant passing poultry through electrically charged water. Is that "humane"?
I would stun every animal that has to be slaughtered in order to minimise pain in death which is considerable compared to the non-stunned halal meat. Stunning can come in the form of a bolt gun which renders the aninmal insensible and it is logically easy to see if the animal is still up or not, or in the form of gas which puts the to sleep. Each lasts long enough for the animal to die without it feeling pain.
As far as I am aware (not too sure on poultry), chicken are stunned and then have there heads cut of. I believe (again not sure) this is quick. As I say, my father deals with this.
As I have said, a clean cut still causes duress to the animal as it's pain recpetors are still working albeit for a shorter but still significant (at least I feel that it is) time.
I don't know how it can be argued that halal meat is more humane. Leaving out all religious implications and focusing purely on the welfare of the animal, a stunned animal feels less pain in death than one that has it's throat slit alive, thus is more humane in my opinion.
Original post by nizmo63
In islam you are supposed to slice the the throat of the animal , the animal dies quickly with as little suffering as possible , so why do you say its inhumane , I believe its more humane then other ways of animal slaughter however even if u dont share my view , why would it be less humane then these other forms . Therefore your argument of not eating it because its inhumane is false in many grounds , furthermore u sound like a dumbass.
Posted from TSR Mobile
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The fact that the last statement started with 'furthermore' made me laugh
Jus sayin'
Original post by Guru Jason
I would stun every animal that has to be slaughtered in order to minimise pain in death which is considerable compared to the non-stunned halal meat. Stunning can come in the form of a bolt gun which renders the aninmal insensible and it is logically easy to see if the animal is still up or not, or in the form of gas which puts the to sleep. Each lasts long enough for the animal to die without it feeling pain.
Okay.
As far as I am aware (not too sure on poultry), chicken are stunned and then have there heads cut of. I believe (again not sure) this is quick. As I say, my father deals with this.
Chicken are poultry.
As I have said, a clean cut still causes duress to the animal as it's pain recpetors are still working albeit for a shorter but still significant (at least I feel that it is) time.
What is the method by which these "pain receptors" are being carried into the brain?
I don't know how it can be argued that halal meat is more humane. Leaving out all religious implications and focusing purely on the welfare of the animal, a stunned animal feels less pain in death than one that has it's throat slit alive, thus is more humane in my opinion.
But have there been any problems with stunning in terms of it's success?
Original post by Enigma55
Would I be offended? Couldn't care less (I am Muslim).
Would I cook you non-halal meat? No. Muslims are not meant to handle things that are not halal.
You should inform me prior to coming over and I'll make you something veggie.
Would I think you're overreacting? Yes
Would I cook you non-halal meat? No. Muslims are not meant to handle things that are not halal.
You should inform me prior to coming over and I'll make you something veggie.
Would I think you're overreacting? Yes
Just your personal opinion, what do you think of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/14/school-halal-sausages-pork-dna
Original post by Error4001
Okay.
Chicken are poultry.
What is the method by which these "pain receptors" are being carried into the brain?
But have there been any problems with stunning in terms of it's success?
Chicken are poultry.
What is the method by which these "pain receptors" are being carried into the brain?
But have there been any problems with stunning in terms of it's success?
I know chicken are poultry, (I meant i dont know how poultry, especially chickens are dealt with). Sorry, should have made mysef clearer.
There is a link on page 3 of this with all this on if you wish to read it.
As far as bolt stunning success, it works as long at the bolt pistol makes contact with the animal. If not, then logically no harm is done. I do not have data upon animals needed multiple shots to render it insensible though I am assuming that 2 shots would still be quicker to administer than cuting the throat clean and leaving it to bleed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWrcZKOzs4
I'll put this link here instead of embedding it in case you dont want to watching but it shows the speed of which bolt gunning happens. Once the animal falls, it no longer feels pain. It may look brutal but the animal feels nothing.
Original post by Enigma55
Would I be offended? Couldn't care less (I am Muslim).
Would I cook you non-halal meat? No. Muslims are not meant to handle things that are not halal.
You should inform me prior to coming over and I'll make you something veggie.
Would I think you're overreacting? Yes
Would I cook you non-halal meat? No. Muslims are not meant to handle things that are not halal.
You should inform me prior to coming over and I'll make you something veggie.
Would I think you're overreacting? Yes
Your conscience tells you to use halal meat, the OP's conscience tells him to avoid it. If he is over reacting, then so are you? But I think your solution - prepare a veggie meal - is an excellent response to the quandary.
Original post by Guru Jason
I know chicken are poultry, (I meant i dont know how poultry, especially chickens are dealt with). Sorry, should have made mysef clearer.
Well allow me to inform you. 90 million poultry are dunked in electrically charged water annually before having their throats slit whilst I think, hanging upside down?
There is a link on page 3 of this with all this on if you wish to read it.
Of this thread or another website?
As far as bolt stunning success, it works as long at the bolt pistol makes contact with the animal. If not, then logically no harm is done. I do not have data upon animals needed multiple shots to render it insensible though I am assuming that 2 shots would still be quicker to administer than cuting the throat clean and leaving it to bleed.
How so? You'll still have to lop the head off the animal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWrcZKOzs4
I'll put this link here instead of embedding it in case you dont want to watching but it shows the speed of which bolt gunning happens. Once the animal falls, it no longer feels pain. It may look brutal but the animal feels nothing.
I'll put this link here instead of embedding it in case you dont want to watching but it shows the speed of which bolt gunning happens. Once the animal falls, it no longer feels pain. It may look brutal but the animal feels nothing.
But if the throat is cut, you feel nothing as well.
Original post by chanelleisme
i'm not a muslim but your reasoning sounds a bit silly/petty to me!
why would you care if the meat is killed in the name of their God if you don't believe their God exists
what difference would it make to you life ?
why would you care if the meat is killed in the name of their God if you don't believe their God exists
what difference would it make to you life ?
anyone who's muslim, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the way I see it:
The usual method for slaughtering non-halal meat is to stun the animal, and then slit it's throat. The stunning beforehand means it feels virtually no pain.
Halal meat skips the stunning method, because a prayer has to be said whilst the animal is being slaughtered, and it has to be able to hear the prayer (note: hear, not understand
)Therefore I, as a non-muslim will never knowingly eat Halal meat. When I eat at some of my Muslim friends places, I eat veggie, and the same when they come over to my place, I'll cook veggie for them.
Personally I feel that the Halal method of slaughtering the animal inflicts needless suffering, and so I don't knowingly eat it. I don't have a problem with non-Halal meat as the animal feels almost no pain, and I can justify the little pain it does feel (from the stunning) as necessary to spare it much more horrific pain from the actual slaughter.
So no, I don't feel OP is being petty, it's a genuine issue. I wouldn't phrase it quite like OP did (saying he doesn't like their God, etc), however, it's purely a moral/ethical decision.
Original post by ConnorB
Just your personal opinion, what do you think of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/14/school-halal-sausages-pork-dna
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/14/school-halal-sausages-pork-dna
My personal opinion is that it's very sad that these companies have broken the trust that people had in them and there will be major repercussions. Once trust is broken it is very hard to get back.
I feel an even greater trust has been broken as compared with the trust that was broken when people bought beef products that contained horse meat, as pig products are 100% disallowed in Islam. So the children and patients that ate the sausages were not only eating something they weren't aware of, but they were consuming something they are not permitted to eat at all.
Having said that islamically these people have done nothing wrong, they were deceived and committed no sin.
Original post by Error4001
Well allow me to inform you. 90 million poultry are dunked in electrically charged water annually before having their throats slit whilst I think, hanging upside down?
Of this thread or another website?
How so? You'll still have to lop the head off the animal.
But if the throat is cut, you feel nothing as well.
Of this thread or another website?
How so? You'll still have to lop the head off the animal.
But if the throat is cut, you feel nothing as well.
I am leaning toward the feeling that this is cruel, but without any information on it (I will look up some for myself). I just don't know if the electric water causes pain or not before rendering the chicken insensible.
Sorry, of this thread, page 3, the RSPCA link.
The animal feels nothing once the bolt gun is used, effectivly dead. Therefore, anything needing to be done can be painless to the animal.
Your last point is incorrect. The spine, nervous system etc is still intact, which unlike the bolt gun allows this to become detatched. When a conscious animal has it's throat cut, it still feels pain, it still breaths, it suffocates as it tries do do so. I've seen cattle try to moo but cannot as they as there throats are cut. I've seen videos of both and know which is more humane.
Original post by Sereni
Halal meat is arguable prepared more humanely than non halal meal, they are very strict about the standards and they kill the animal instantly by cutting its throat rather than shocking it to death or other methods of slaughter. There is very little difference tbh, but if there is one its that it is MORE humanely not less. the difference comes after death with the draining of the blood which is a meaningless artefact from back in the day when there was more interspecies disease and draining the blood helped to prevent spread. Honestly I am a veggie and i find your reasoning stupid and pretty insulting
Thanks for your opinion, which is based on something, but others have no clue regarding what's humane and what's not. I've seen it myself having conversations. Stunning still hurts, people think its inhumane as stunning isn't allowed. But my opinion is why many complain on inhumanity, yet ignore the animal still loses its life and gets eaten. Even the conditions many are kept in! That's inhumane from a veggie p.o.v. But no big media frenzy over that.
yes, I know it's not everyone, its some people.
Does it being halal really matter? How do you react to other foods that have Halal or Kosher on the labels? If you're not religious then it really shouldn't matter and you do have the ability to eat it. I've eaten Kosher and Halal foods and I'm not religious.
If anything, Halal and Kosher are some of the best ways to kill an animal for meat, they don't feel the pain because they're instantly dead (none of us know this for certain) Whereas is you stick an electric prob up it's bottom, that animal suffers for a while because being electrocuted doesn't cause death instantly.
If anything, Halal and Kosher are some of the best ways to kill an animal for meat, they don't feel the pain because they're instantly dead (none of us know this for certain) Whereas is you stick an electric prob up it's bottom, that animal suffers for a while because being electrocuted doesn't cause death instantly.
I am not a muslim but I would leave. I woul not break bread with someone who approved of such barbarism.
Original post by Guru Jason
I do worry about how it lived, which is why I also worry about how it dies.
Stunning slaughter is less painfull that ritual slaughter, hence why I would only eat this kind of meat.
Stunning slaughter is less painfull that ritual slaughter, hence why I would only eat this kind of meat.
I understand your point, and I don't know which is less painful. It doesn't matter to me, I'd eat halal anyway. But how do you guarantee how the animal you're consuming had a nice life? Or death?
but can you understand before stun guns, in the west, animals were shot in the head? Ive seen videos of it. BBC. don't worry, im western myself, black caribbean so im not 'anti-western' or anything. compared to hundreds of years beforehand, halal meat was more humane than a gunshot to the face. So why fuss now stun guns have come about. This is why I believe people just want to jump on an Islamophobic media frenzy against anything Islamic. I've experienced it with my own family so I can talk.
just curious, would you avoid kosher meat as badly? They perform it the same way. Hence Muslims can eat kosher meat. But no big media frezy over kosher.
Original post by Guru Jason
I am leaning toward the feeling that this is cruel, but without any information on it (I will look up some for myself). I just don't know if the electric water causes pain or not before rendering the chicken insensible.
I do apologize. It seems it was 900 million (halfway down).
Sorry, of this thread, page 3, the RSPCA link.
And your issue is with the "pain" that the animal must suffer in the next few seconds?
The animal feels nothing once the bolt gun is used, effectivly dead. Therefore, anything needing to be done can be painless to the animal.
You mentioned that the stunning process was "quicker". I merely queried whether the extra step of stunning was indeed "quicker".
Your last point is incorrect. The spine, nervous system etc is still intact, which unlike the bolt gun allows this to become detatched. When a conscious animal has it's throat cut, it still feels pain, it still breaths, it suffocates as it tries do do so. I've seen cattle try to moo but cannot as they as there throats are cut. I've seen videos of both and know which is more humane.
It cannot feel pain because of the endorphin which is released. If you cut yourself, do you feel the pain right away or after a few seconds?
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