Why abortion is wrong.

I'm trying to look for the original quote that I replied to, bare with me.

Edit:

Okay, I can't even find it (I went through about 10 pages, still couldn't lol) so I don't know whether I was replying with some validity, or not. So I'll just leave it.

I'm not even really gonna engage in this debate anyway, not properly. They just go around in circles with various ad hominen attacks, and anger on both sides with no real conclusion. Not worth it.

One thing I will say, however, about the law not seeing a fetus as a person. I don't think that's much of a valid point. The law is fluid and decided by other human beings. It is not an absolute truth. At various times in the judical system, various groups have no been defined as having a personhood. Maybe it'll change in regards to babies, maybe not. Who knows.

This debate has no right answer, only opinion. And each side thinks they're right. So, I'm out.

Thank you, it really is. I can't wait. I want to specialise in bereavement midwifery, so I will likely be working with women who have been through abortions as well as women who have suffered IUDs.

I hope you didn't mean what you said about avoiding me if you ever come across me as a Midwife. I have strong opinions about abortion, yes, but I could never let a woman under my care feel discriminated against or mistreated because of that. I would probably cry when alone, and have thoughts in my head, but to transfer it into my conduct - no way. The worst I would do is respectfully ask my superiors if another Midwife could take my client if I really felt I couldn't handle it, if that.

Umm, not me

What I find interesting, though, is the same people who are pro-choice don't give a damn about the millions of baby boys who have their genitals mutilated without their consent, daily.

Since we're making generalisations here.

Babies are defined as humans.
An embryo is not a baby, nor is it an individual yet.

Is an embryo a human being, or not?

Anyway, I was referring to the law's stance on personhood, nothing else, really.

I was agreeing with you. I thought you made a good point.

I also agree about the mutilation, by the way.

Now I'm confused.

That IS the law's stance on personhood!

An embryo is biologically a human being. But we don't value humans because they are biologically similar to ourselves; we value then for their individuality and character, their ability to interact with others, their experiences. An embryo does not have that and is not valued by default. It CAN be, if the conception is planned or wanted, but it does not have to have value or meaning.


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lol

And my point is the law changes, and has regarded other vulnerable groups as not having a personhood before.

I'm a bit confused as well. I don't think the original post was agreeing with me, though, because I'm pro-life and I don't agree with 'cutting support for the poorest and most in need members of society when it saves them a pretty penny in taxes'

That is the law, however you ignored the rest of the post which was more important.


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I know, that's why I said it. If you go back to my first post where I quoted you I highlighted a bit in red which I agreed with and I carried on with what you were saying. You were like:

"The pro-life nuts who could care less about my health and wellbeing but who were totally up for me keeping the baby (but of course not helping me out financially or socially or in any other way after the pregnancy had run its course)"

And I was basically nodding and going yup, it's interesting how they'll be pro-life until the thing's actually born.

The whole highlighting in red thing wasn't all that clear to be fair, so I'm happy to take the blame for this one.

To be honest, I had assumed from your infantacide post that this was something you were very vocal about, which you could have allowed to impede your work, hence why I said that. You've since convinced me that's not the case So if I ended up with you as my midwife, sure I'd stick with you! I'm inclined to go for a doula I think though, whenever I do end up having kids, but its good to have midwives as well for the medical side of things.

I'm just going to say "okay". Would that make you happy? Not really arsed to go around in circles.

I know, that's why I said it. If you go back to my first post where I quoted you I highlighted a bit in red which I agreed with and I carried on with what you were saying. You were like:

"The pro-life nuts who could care less about my health and wellbeing but who were totally up for me keeping the baby (but of course not helping me out financially or socially or in any other way after the pregnancy had run its course)"

And I was basically nodding and going yup, it's interesting how they'll be pro-life until the thing's actually born.

The whole highlighting in red thing wasn't all that clear to be fair, so I'm happy to take the blame for this one.

I didn't say the thing in the red, though. I was quoting you.


I am so totally confused lol

Never said there were no differences between your bunch of cells vs a pre-born child at any stage in their life. just like how my cells are different than yours, as is an African's or a Jew's bunch of cells. we are all still human...you have still failed at arguing that.

rightfully so, all humans should be respected and given the chance to live. your denial to this?

The fact that 200,000 abortions are conducted each year really shows how easy it is for two doctors to sign a piece of paper.

You say the women have rights over her own body. So at what point does it become not her body but a shared body? You also believed that the embryo had rights, so what exactly are these rights?

The point is no matter how "hard" the decision is once you have pulled the trigger you have pulled it. We look at what the effects and not the emotional readiness it required to make the decision.

Not just like our cells are different...

Our cells are more or less the same. Just like how an African or a Jew's cells are pretty much the same

My point was that embryos are not yet human on even a cellular level, and you would have understood my point had you actually read about embryology as I advised rather than just coming back with your feel uninformed 'we are all different but we are all human' argument.

You are making this a black and white argument to make it easier for you to argue against my point of view, but it isn't black and white.

An embryo is simply not the same as a fully formed human being, it has a neural tube as opposed to a nervous system, it consists of far fewer types of cells, mainly plenipotentiary stem cells, and depending on the stage of development they can be classes into different categories. You seem to think an embryo is just a mini human....

"The question as to when a human being begins is strictly a scientific question, and should be answered by human embryologists"