why don't educated, ''high flying'' career women marry ''down''?
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As has already been mentioned, women are hypergamous. They want to marry men who are at least as well educated and successful as they are. If they marry a supportive beta male househusband they will lose attraction for him, stop providing sex, and probably divorce him or try to have an affair with the high quality, powerful men around her at work.
Why are women hypergamous? They are far more reproductively valuable than men (eggs are rare, sperm is extremely common; women also invest far more into making a baby than men do). They evolved to want the best possible genes for their child and the best resources to provide and protect them both.
(Men conversely are polygamous and want to impregnate as many women as possible.
)
Unfortunately for women, their hypergamy makes it extremely difficult to reach the top levels of power. They tend to refuse to marry a supportive husband who would help them get there, while the most ambitious men marry supportive wives who help them reach the top. (Of course, if a woman uses her youth, beauty and femininity to marry well, she can have all the benefits of wealth and power without actually having to work for them - unlike men who have to work extremely hard and take successful risks to become wealthy and powerful.)
Why are women hypergamous? They are far more reproductively valuable than men (eggs are rare, sperm is extremely common; women also invest far more into making a baby than men do). They evolved to want the best possible genes for their child and the best resources to provide and protect them both.
(Men conversely are polygamous and want to impregnate as many women as possible.
)Unfortunately for women, their hypergamy makes it extremely difficult to reach the top levels of power. They tend to refuse to marry a supportive husband who would help them get there, while the most ambitious men marry supportive wives who help them reach the top. (Of course, if a woman uses her youth, beauty and femininity to marry well, she can have all the benefits of wealth and power without actually having to work for them - unlike men who have to work extremely hard and take successful risks to become wealthy and powerful.)
agree with that.
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Posted from TSR Mobile
I often think that as women, we have shot ourselves a little in the foot by campaigning so hard for equality. Because what we've actually achieved is that yes, we're able to go to work and do well in a career - but we're still expected to do all of the child rearing at the same time! I'm fairly sure that this isn't what the ladies burning their bras had in mind.
I do see a few stay at home men though, and that's great for them. But people bitch about their partners saying they don't understand how they can leave their partner raising their baby while they "abandon" them at work.
So we haven't achieved equality, we've achieved a situation where it's harder to balance everything we want than ever, and it seems that still the only chance to achieve true harmony is to pick between one or the other. Child or career.
I'm sure there are many women who juggle both, so don't quote me with examples haha. But many of those women will go on to regret not spending as much time with their children, or even not climbing higher up the career ladder.
I do see a few stay at home men though, and that's great for them. But people bitch about their partners saying they don't understand how they can leave their partner raising their baby while they "abandon" them at work.
So we haven't achieved equality, we've achieved a situation where it's harder to balance everything we want than ever, and it seems that still the only chance to achieve true harmony is to pick between one or the other. Child or career.
I'm sure there are many women who juggle both, so don't quote me with examples haha. But many of those women will go on to regret not spending as much time with their children, or even not climbing higher up the career ladder.
Original post by Mr_Vain
Tbh, i see huge amounts (i can't predict how many) of the next generation heading for a Japan-like scenario. Where they effectively just stop trying with these women and just live their lives and get sexual gratification through other means. E.g. Prostitutes, hentai, other weird **** or just abstaining altogether. With that obviously comes more social problems. I seriously worry for the next generation because it seems as though people are starting to realise that "relationships" never really end well or make one happy in the end. If my views seem over the top, then ignore them, i am not a futurist. However, it is a reasoned estimation that I have.
this is already happening in the west but obv not to the same extent. in japan, they are called ''herbivore'' men. women have such unrealistic and materialistic standards that many men have given up, realising it's a race they can't win and even if they did it wouldn't be worth the effort.
Herbivore men is a social phenomenon in Japan of men who shun marriage or gaining a girlfriend. As of September 2010, 36% of Japanese men between the ages of 16 and 19 perceived themselves in this way. Additionally, two surveys of single men in their 20s and 30s found that 61% and 70%, respectively, considered themselves grass-eating men.
and yes, it's a very worrying trend for the future. not just because of the low birth rates, but also because men will stop feeling motivated and have a sense of self-worth and achievement . society and the economy will suffer badly, to what extent it remains to be seen. social engineers will have a lot to answer for.
Original post by drake10
As has already been mentioned, women are hypergamous. They want to marry men who are at least as well educated and successful as they are. If they marry a supportive beta male househusband they will lose attraction for him, stop providing sex, and probably divorce him or try to have an affair with the high quality, powerful men around her at work.
Why are women hypergamous? They are far more reproductively valuable than men (eggs are rare, sperm is extremely common; women also invest far more into making a baby than men do). They evolved to want the best possible genes for their child and the best resources to provide and protect them both.
(Men conversely are polygamous and want to impregnate as many women as possible.)
Unfortunately for women, their hypergamy makes it extremely difficult to reach the top levels of power. They tend to refuse to marry a supportive husband who would help them get there, while the most ambitious men marry supportive wives who help them reach the top. (Of course, if a woman uses her youth, beauty and femininity to marry well, she can have all the benefits of wealth and power without actually having to work for them - unlike men who have to work extremely hard and take successful risks to become wealthy and powerful.)
Why are women hypergamous? They are far more reproductively valuable than men (eggs are rare, sperm is extremely common; women also invest far more into making a baby than men do). They evolved to want the best possible genes for their child and the best resources to provide and protect them both.
(Men conversely are polygamous and want to impregnate as many women as possible.
)Unfortunately for women, their hypergamy makes it extremely difficult to reach the top levels of power. They tend to refuse to marry a supportive husband who would help them get there, while the most ambitious men marry supportive wives who help them reach the top. (Of course, if a woman uses her youth, beauty and femininity to marry well, she can have all the benefits of wealth and power without actually having to work for them - unlike men who have to work extremely hard and take successful risks to become wealthy and powerful.)
To a point, because i personally know a girl from a family who are extremely wealthy (they used to be the wealthiest in Hong Kong) and she maintains that when a woman enters such a relationship it is always for a price. And of course, such men are all the more likely to have mistresses and generally ignore her. Men with these resources hold all of the cards.
Original post by enthuziazmz
this is already happening in the west but obv not to the same extent. in japan, they are called ''herbivore'' men. women have such unrealistic and materialistic standards that many men have given up, realising it's a race they can't win and even if they did it wouldn't be worth the effort.
and yes, it's a very worrying trend for the future. not just because of the low birth rates, but also because men will stop feeling motivated and have a sense of self-worth and achievement . society and the economy will suffer badly, to what extent it remains to be seen. social engineers will have a lot to answer for.
and yes, it's a very worrying trend for the future. not just because of the low birth rates, but also because men will stop feeling motivated and have a sense of self-worth and achievement . society and the economy will suffer badly, to what extent it remains to be seen. social engineers will have a lot to answer for.
Since i just mentioned Hong Kong in another post, Hong Kong is another example of this. It is VERY money/status centric over there. Birth rates are low of course and the government afaik has financial incentives for starting families. And yet, i really doubt the native HK'ers are going to take this as a good enough incentive to get married. Socially, it is pretty ****ed up.
I see this next generation of men as inheriting a huge identity crisis akin to that of those men decades ago who had to consider a world where it was gradually more accepted that there might not be a God.
Oh god am I really reading this?, a successful woman can marry who she wishes. Chances are they are highly ambitious and have a certain drive, so of course they are more than likely going to be attracted to the same qualities in a man.
I am highly ambitious and intend to be successful, I will not stop until I am, I would not 'marry down' just so my husband could stay at home if we had children, that logic is stupid.
I am highly ambitious and intend to be successful, I will not stop until I am, I would not 'marry down' just so my husband could stay at home if we had children, that logic is stupid.
Original post by enthuziazmz
and yes, it's a very worrying trend for the future. not just because of the low birth rates, but also because men will stop feeling motivated and have a sense of self-worth and achievement . society and the economy will suffer badly, to what extent it remains to be seen. social engineers will have a lot to answer for.
The end result of these trends:
Transcript:
http://owningyour****.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/transcript-of-fempocalypse.html
Original post by Mr_Vain
Men with these resources hold all of the cards.
Time for me to get back to work and get closer to becoming superrich!
Original post by enthuziazmz
everyone knows that having kids affects women's career big time. so why don't these women marry men who will stay at home with the kids since they make enough money to support the whole family? men have been marrying ''down'' since forever and still do. so why don't women do it and continue their careers?
Where's your evidence that they don't? :s
Also given the gender roles in place in society men may feel threatened by marrying someone with a better career and higher intelligence so even if it was the case there's nothing to say it's the women's choice.
Original post by Pan's-Labyrinth
Oh god am I really reading this?, a successful woman can marry who she wishes. Chances are they are highly ambitious and have a certain drive, so of course they are more than likely going to be attracted to the same qualities in a man.
A successful woman can marry who she wishes... as long as he also wants to marry her. Men prefer young, beautiful, feminine women over successful women though. Many successful women who've spent their twenties focused on their education and career find that the successful, ambitious men around them in their thirties don't want them and instead want women in their twenties.
I am highly ambitious and intend to be successful, I will not stop until I am, I would not 'marry down' just so my husband could stay at home if we had children, that logic is stupid.
Let's say you have children. Who will look after them?
1. You do. You take time off work and your career suffers.
2. He does. You probably lose attraction for him.
3. You get women on the minimum wage who don't care about your children to look after them. Your children suffer.
It is extremely difficult for a woman to have a high-flying career, successful marriage, and happy, well-brought up children.
Original post by Pan's-Labyrinth
Oh god am I really reading this?, a successful woman can marry who she wishes. Chances are they are highly ambitious and have a certain drive, so of course they are more than likely going to be attracted to the same qualities in a man.
I am highly ambitious and intend to be successful, I will not stop until I am, I would not 'marry down' just so my husband could stay at home if we had children, that logic is stupid.
I am highly ambitious and intend to be successful, I will not stop until I am, I would not 'marry down' just so my husband could stay at home if we had children, that logic is stupid.
I really don't mean to offend. But, i don't think you'll have an option but to marry down. You see, you're not particularly attractive right now. You're 22, you're probably going to take a few years to get this success you want. Before you know it you are 30. Now, as I am a male who is heading towards success and I will also be 30 (we're the same age) would I really go for you or would I rather go for the younger girls who most likely do not have so much baggage either as the average 30 year old single woman? In terms of a trade, you're pretty much a depreciating asset.
Original post by redferry
Where's your evidence that they don't? :s
Also given the gender roles in place in society men may feel threatened by marrying someone with a better career and higher intelligence so even if it was the case there's nothing to say it's the women's choice.
Also given the gender roles in place in society men may feel threatened by marrying someone with a better career and higher intelligence so even if it was the case there's nothing to say it's the women's choice.
did you read the thread and the stats in the links? the vast majority of women with status and wealth don't want to marry down. and you don't think a huge number of guys would want to marry a millionaire? there would be a line from here to timbuktu.
Original post by drake10
A successful woman can marry who she wishes... as long as he also wants to marry her. Men prefer young, beautiful, feminine women over successful women though. Many successful women who've spent their twenties focused on their education and career find that the successful, ambitious men around them in their thirties don't want them and instead want women in their twenties.
Let's say you have children. Who will look after them?
1. You do. You take time off work and your career suffers.
2. He does. You probably lose attraction for him.
3. You get women on the minimum wage who don't care about your children to look after them. Your children suffer.
It is extremely difficult for a woman to have a high-flying career, successful marriage, and happy, well-brought up children.
Let's say you have children. Who will look after them?
1. You do. You take time off work and your career suffers.
2. He does. You probably lose attraction for him.
3. You get women on the minimum wage who don't care about your children to look after them. Your children suffer.
It is extremely difficult for a woman to have a high-flying career, successful marriage, and happy, well-brought up children.
You are making a hella lot of assumptions and bold statements here.
Yes some successful men may not want a successful woman, they may want a trophy girlfriend who is young and naive! However successful women can be just as attractive, fun and can offer the same if not more than a young woman.
I am 22 so I suppose I am the 'young, naive' woman right now, but I can tell you something for free, I am not going to stop myself from being successful or becoming a high flyer just in case men won't want me. There is someone for everyone, successful or not, just look at Jeremy Kyle.
When I have children I will be financially stable and at a point in my career where I could afford to take a year or two off. If my husband is working to even better, this is where grandparents come into the equation, of course they will not always be able to look after them. But whether you are a high flyer or not most women still work, therefore not being at home all the time.
Original post by enthuziazmz
did you read the thread and the stats in the links? the vast majority of women with status and wealth don't want to marry down. and you don't think a huge number of guys would want to marry a millionaire? there would be a line from here to timbuktu.
Did you post any statistics on how many men wouldn't want to marry someone who earns more than them?
Ill have a look at the stats you posted now
Original post by donutaud15
silly me I thought marriage was mostly about love, not whose earning what. 
But what is love? OoooOOOoooOOOooo
*resists the urge to start humming Haddaway*
Original post by Mr_Vain
Tbh, i see huge amounts (i can't predict how many) of the next generation heading for a Japan-like scenario. Where they effectively just stop trying with these women and just live their lives and get sexual gratification through other means. E.g. Prostitutes, hentai, other weird **** or just abstaining altogether. With that obviously comes more social problems. I seriously worry for the next generation because it seems as though people are starting to realise that "relationships" never really end well or make one happy in the end. If my views seem over the top, then ignore them, i am not a futurist. However, it is a reasoned estimation that I have.
You don't have a very big social circle do you?
Original post by Mr_Vain
Well, about that... I am actually about an 8.5 (funny that you should mention modelling, I did catalogue modelling as a boy and teenager) and you're about a 7 at best. This may get me a card, but, i feel it necessary in the public interest here to get that one clear and out of the way.
You are funny, I will give you that, good job I don't care for the opinion of a nobody online
I am secure with myself and I happy to think I am attractive, people go for different types so you may well be an 8.5 in your opinion but I could may well think you are butt ugly, you did child modelling and as a teenager, what do you want a medal You are one of these idiots who likes to belittle and make people feel like rubbish just to make yourself feel better, who gives an F if you are attractive your personality is disgusting.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Pan's-Labyrinth
You are funny, I will give you that, good job I don't care for the opinion of a nobody online I am secure with myself and I happy to think I am attractive, people go for different types so you may well be an 8.5 in your opinion but I could may well think you are butt ugly, you did child modelling and as a teenager, what do you want a medal
You are on of these idiots who likes to belittle and make people feel like rubbish just to make yourself feel better, who gives an F if you are attractive your personality is disgusting.
I am secure with myself and I happy to think I am attractive, people go for different types so you may well be an 8.5 in your opinion but I could may well think you are butt ugly, you did child modelling and as a teenager, what do you want a medal You are on of these idiots who likes to belittle and make people feel like rubbish just to make yourself feel better, who gives an F if you are attractive your personality is disgusting.
I donate to animals rights charities and I help out the old ladies in my local charity shop on weekends. My conscience is clean.
Original post by Mr_Vain
I donate to animals rights charities and I help out the old ladies in my local charity shop on weekends. My conscience is clean.
Full-time employment
, wish I had the time to chill in charity shops on weekends 
.Original post by Mr_Vain
Well, about that... I am actually about an 8.5 (funny that you should mention modelling, I did catalogue modelling as a boy and teenager) and you're about a 7 at best. This may get me a card, but, i feel it necessary in the public interest here to get that one clear and out of the way.
It's pretty depressing that a woman's worth in society is based on nothing more than her looks.
As soon as we hit 25 our value declines regardless of what else we do with our lives. No wonder high flying women don't want to marry 'below them'
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