Is transgender-ism a medical condition ?
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Original post by ItsLyanna
Gender dysphoria is the manifestation of being in the wrong body, so to speak.
So that is a yes then.
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Original post by demx9
So your saying:
- a man is born
- he thinks he is a woman
- he has both gender dysphoria and transgenderism
- he does a gender transformation to become a women
- no longer has gender dysphoria
- still transgender
But with the drug I linked none of this is necessary, the feeling of belonging to the other sex is removed.
- a man is born
- he thinks he is a woman
- he has both gender dysphoria and transgenderism
- he does a gender transformation to become a women
- no longer has gender dysphoria
- still transgender
But with the drug I linked none of this is necessary, the feeling of belonging to the other sex is removed.
It might seem like I'm being picky with words, but I think it's very important because your understanding (like most non trans people who understandably can't conceive what it is like to perceive a disconnect between mind and body) is fundamentally misconceived.
Firstly, a "man" (or woman for that matter) is not born, that would be one hell of a painful childbirth. A child is born, and it physically has one set of genitals or another (or occasionally variations thereupon) and is classified as a "boy" or a "girl" and expected to behave in certain ways because that's what society tells us.
"He" does NOT "think" he is a woman, that's completely wrong. A male to female transgender person is ALWAYS female, from birth, she is born female. She is just born with a penis. The brain structure is female (there are studies that show this here and here
Somehow we think that penis = man and vagina = woman, but isn't it bizarre, when you think about it? Identity is what is in the mind, i.e. the brain, so why do we decide that what is between our legs decides are fundamental identity? It might work as a fairly decent "guideline" but the existence of trans people (whether they change their body or not) shows that it is inaccurate in a significant enough number of cases.
This distinction between "gender dysphoria" and "transgender" isn't really that important. All we really need to say is that "transgender" is a descriptive noun and "gender dysphoria" is a possible 'symptom' of experiencing this. It makes me laugh when it's described as a "discomfort". For many, that's the understatement of the century. It's something that drives around 50% of trans people to kill themselves, hardly a mere "discomfort".
Also, while it used to be classified as a mental illness, it no longer is classified as such in the UK (just as homosexuality was previously de-classified as a mental illness). This makes sense because mental illness is normally treated with psychotherapy to deal with the mental issue, whereas in this case, physical changes resolve the dysphoria. (Although counselling can deal with subsidiary issues associated with the distress caused).
Original post by Eien
Somehow we think that penis = man and vagina = woman, but isn't it bizarre, when you think about it?
Somehow we think that penis = man and vagina = woman, but isn't it bizarre, when you think about it?
This is so strange indeed.
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
NHS makes this distinction
•
gender dysphoria – discomfort or distress caused by a mismatch between a person’s gender identity and their biological sex assigned at birth
•
transsexualism – the desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to have treatment to make their physical appearance more consistent with their gender identity
There's also a distinction between transgender and transsexual.
Original post by demx9
Apparently there is a medical condition called gender dysphoria:
"the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex."
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx
There is a pharmaceutical drug to solve this condition:
"There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
I am not trying to be offensive, just genuinely curious.
"the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex."
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx
There is a pharmaceutical drug to solve this condition:
"There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
I am not trying to be offensive, just genuinely curious.
Do you know the sample size of that drug test? One. One sodding person. That does not show that it solves anything whatsoever,
Original post by demx9
Literally, what's the difference ?
The difference is purely political. for all rational intents and purposes they are the same. But one term is used where someone chooses to be another gender because they feel they are. And the other is where someone chooses to be another gender because they feel they were born that way. (yes they are the same).
Gender dysphoria is the mental illness, the confusion about their sex and gender, with biological bases, I think.
Transgender can be the consequence of gender dysphoria, it being like the expression of gender dysphoria. The sense of self not aligning with the biological sex.
Transsexual is the name for someone who has made the transition from one sex to another, by the means of e.g. hormone therapy or gender reassignment surgery.
So no, being transgender isn't a mental illness, but gender dysphoria is.
Transgender can be the consequence of gender dysphoria, it being like the expression of gender dysphoria. The sense of self not aligning with the biological sex.
Transsexual is the name for someone who has made the transition from one sex to another, by the means of e.g. hormone therapy or gender reassignment surgery.
So no, being transgender isn't a mental illness, but gender dysphoria is.
Original post by JeremyOU
The difference is purely political. for all rational intents and purposes they are the same. But one term is used where someone chooses to be another gender because they feel they are. And the other is where someone chooses to be another gender because they feel they were born that way. (yes they are the same).
Not quite. Virtually all people with Gender Dysphoria are transgender, but it's possible to be transgender without necessarily having gender dysphoria. You can, having been asigned the male gender at birth for instance, feel like you are a woman emotionally and mentally, identify only with the female gender, hold a natural inclination towards feminine socialisations, but not have the dysphoria as such where you feel very intensly uncomfortable and distressed with your physical body because of its appearence. There's certainly a scale involved, from transgender people who don't have that dysphoria at all to those who suffer it so strongly that they are inclined to self-harm and in some cases self-castrate and have intense symptoms from merely looking in a mirror, and particularly at seeing their genitals, sometimes as far as full-blown panic attacks. Of course the two often go hand-in-hand, but there is a difference
Original post by Saoirse:3
Not quite. Virtually all people with Gender Dysphoria are transgender, but it's possible to be transgender without necessarily having gender dysphoria. You can, having been asigned the male gender at birth for instance, feel like you are a woman emotionally and mentally, identify only with the female gender, hold a natural inclination towards feminine socialisations, but not have the dysphoria as such where you feel very intensly uncomfortable and distressed with your physical body because of its appearence. There's certainly a scale involved, from transgender people who don't have that dysphoria at all to those who suffer it so strongly that they are inclined to self-harm and in some cases self-castrate and have intense symptoms from merely looking in a mirror, and particularly at seeing their genitals, sometimes as far as full-blown panic attacks. Of course the two often go hand-in-hand, but there is a difference
so gender dysphoria is like the extreme end of transgender inclination?
Original post by JeremyOU
so gender dysphoria is like the extreme end of transgender inclination?
Not really - as I said, most transgender people do have it, but you're not any "less transgender" if you don't. You can think of it as a set of symptons experienced by most, but not all, trans* people if that makes any sense?
Original post by Saoirse:3
Not really - as I said, most transgender people do have it, but you're not any "less transgender" if you don't. You can think of it as a set of symptons experienced by most, but not all, trans* people if that makes any sense?
yes. (I get the general idea, but I cant really frame the concept in my mind, mainly because I don't know any trans people.
)
There is no difference between transgender and gender dysphoria. The defining characteristic of both is the person feels they are the wrong gender given how their body presents, though one term focuses more on how they identify while the other focuses on how they feel about their body. In either case the root of the issue is the same - a mismatch of body and mind.
What I think is a little weak-minded though, is the belief that the person is somehow "more correct" than the body. If a person is born male but identifies as female, they are male, with a mental disorder. The body is far more hard-programmed and less delicate than the mind - higher cognitive functions and indeed complex emotions are a feature of highly specialised brains. The fault will certainly lie in the brain, and hence the perception; not the body.
The studies which put forward the case that the transgender issue is "real" support this too of course; they show brain differences, which are thought to be caused by hormonal imbalances inutero (Simon Baron-Cohen's research). The sex you're "assigned at birth" is your real sex; since it is easier to adjust the body than it is the mind (esp. since many gender distinctions are cultural) it's far easier to provide quality of life and harmony of self and image by making the body align with the mind. But it is flat out wrong that people think of it as being "trapped in the wrong body". edit: I shall add it's probably a good way to try to understand what it feels like, but the point is the body isn't wrong - the mind is wrong.
What I think is a little weak-minded though, is the belief that the person is somehow "more correct" than the body. If a person is born male but identifies as female, they are male, with a mental disorder. The body is far more hard-programmed and less delicate than the mind - higher cognitive functions and indeed complex emotions are a feature of highly specialised brains. The fault will certainly lie in the brain, and hence the perception; not the body.
The studies which put forward the case that the transgender issue is "real" support this too of course; they show brain differences, which are thought to be caused by hormonal imbalances inutero (Simon Baron-Cohen's research). The sex you're "assigned at birth" is your real sex; since it is easier to adjust the body than it is the mind (esp. since many gender distinctions are cultural) it's far easier to provide quality of life and harmony of self and image by making the body align with the mind. But it is flat out wrong that people think of it as being "trapped in the wrong body". edit: I shall add it's probably a good way to try to understand what it feels like, but the point is the body isn't wrong - the mind is wrong.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by JeremyOU
yes. (I get the general idea, but I cant really frame the concept in my mind, mainly because I don't know any trans people.)
)It's pretty hard to for most people who don't experience it themselves unfortunately. Hence the common way of describing it as feeling "in the wrong body". The most scientifically supported theory we have for it right now is that an abnormal balance of hormones in the womb while the foetus is developing leads it to develop a brain which is typical of those belonging to the opposite sex - so a 'male' foetus with XY chromosons developing a female mental state. Once it's born and old enough to have any understanding of gender/sex (many trans* people report knowing something was up from the time they were a toddler), the brain realises the body isn't what it thinks it should be and totally freaks out.
Original post by Saoirse:3
It's pretty hard to for most people who don't experience it themselves unfortunately. Hence the common way of describing it as feeling "in the wrong body". The most scientifically supported theory we have for it right now is that an abnormal balance of hormones in the womb while the foetus is developing leads it to develop a brain which is typical of those belonging to the opposite sex - so a 'male' foetus with XY chromosons developing a female mental state. Once it's born and old enough to have any understanding of gender/sex (many trans* people report knowing something was up from the time they were a toddler), the brain realises the body isn't what it thinks it should be and totally freaks out.
ok, officially lost.
Original post by demx9
Apparently there is a medical condition called gender dysphoria:
"the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex."
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx
There is a pharmaceutical drug to solve this condition:
"There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
I am not trying to be offensive, just genuinely curious.
"the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex."
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx
There is a pharmaceutical drug to solve this condition:
"There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. "
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
I am not trying to be offensive, just genuinely curious.
Gender dysphoria is the distress/confusion about one's own gender and sex.
Being transgender is the sense of self not aligning with one's biological sex.
Being transsexual is when someone has transitioned from one sex to another, by the means of hormone therapy or gender-reassignment surgery.
Original post by Sir Candour
Eh - can't the latter just be seen as a solution for the former? One feels 'discomfort or distress' from their biological sex, and thus seeks to change their body and live as the opposite sex? The wish to be accepted as such being a natural corollary from their belief that their sex and gender were a mismatch?
I should perhaps research for an answer myself, but I'm already too bogged down in mental stuff in writing my politics paper (social wellbeing questions lead down a dark and dangerous road for the unknowing, like myself).
I should perhaps research for an answer myself, but I'm already too bogged down in mental stuff in writing my politics paper (social wellbeing questions lead down a dark and dangerous road for the unknowing, like myself).
Yes, transitioning (becoming transsexual) I would think is a solution to gender dysphoria.
Original post by richpanda
I support what you say. It is a mental disorder.
Being transgender isn't a mental illness; gender dysphoria is. Semantics.
Original post by DiddyDec
I wouldn't necessarily word it like that, as gender dysphoria is the distress and confusion, whilst being transgender is the non-alignment. It feels as if what you've said implies that both always come to co-exist.
Hypothetically speaking, if person X had no distress/confusion about the non-alignment, then you can say that X is transgender, but doesn't have gender dysphoria.
But a more practical, realistic application is if a transgender person successfully transitions, and no longer feels distress or confusion, that means the person is transgender and transsexual but no longer has gender dysphoria.
.
.
Also, I personally think (I might be wrong) that "condition" is not an apt word for gender dysphoria, as opposed to a mental disorder or illness, because it feels like it implies that it makes it sound as if gender dysphoria cannot be fixed. (Sorry for being semantic, I'm like that. Also feel free to dispute.)
Original post by demx9
So your saying:
- a man is born
- he thinks he is a woman
- he has both gender dysphoria and transgenderism
- he does a gender transformation to become a women
- no longer has gender dysphoria
- still transgender
But with the drug I linked none of this is necessary, the feeling of belonging to the other sex is removed.
- a man is born
- he thinks he is a woman
- he has both gender dysphoria and transgenderism
- he does a gender transformation to become a women
- no longer has gender dysphoria
- still transgender
But with the drug I linked none of this is necessary, the feeling of belonging to the other sex is removed.
- Alex is born, with the biological sex male
- Alex has major distress/confusion about his sex
- Alex therefore has gender dysphoria
- Alex's sense of self doesn't align with his biological sex, at birth/Alex's sense of self is now that of a woman
- Alex is transgender
- Alex transitions his body to that of a woman's (by hormone replacement therapy, or gender-reassignment surgery, for example)
- Alex is transsexual
- (If successful) Alex no longer has distress about sex and gender, so no longer has gender dysphoria
- End result: Alex is transgender (sense of self still doesn't align with sex at birth), transsexual (from the transition) but no longer has the gender dysphoria (no longer feels distress over sex and gender)
Original post by anarchism101
Gender dysphoria is the condition, gender transitioning ('transgender-ism'
is the treatment/cure for it.
is the treatment/cure for it."gender transitioning (becoming transsexual)"** Semantics.
Original post by ItsLyanna
Gender dysphoria is the manifestation of being in the wrong body, so to speak.
I know you said that you are a trans woman, but semantically speaking I would have thought that gender dysphoria was the distress, then transgender was the manifestation of being in the wrong body, so to speak.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by XcitingStuart
I know you said that you are a trans woman, but semantically speaking I would have thought that gender dysphoria was the distress, then transgender was the manifestation of being in the wrong body, so to speak.
I know you said that you are a trans woman, but semantically speaking I would have thought that gender dysphoria was the distress, then transgender was the manifestation of being in the wrong body, so to speak.
I mean, I agree with what you said here, so I may just be struggling to word it.
Original post by ItsLyanna
Ignoring your use of the incorrect pronouns, that is somewhat accurate. And if that drug worked as you says it does, then why would people like me still undergo difficult transitions?
I hope this isn't too personal of a question, but are you saying that if such a drug worked, that would be a more preferable option than transitioning? I would have thought that many would still prefer to opt for transitioning even if such a drug existed.
Original post by The Epicurean
I hope this isn't too personal of a question, but are you saying that if such a drug worked, that would be a more preferable option than transitioning? I would have thought that many would still prefer to opt for transitioning even if such a drug existed.
No, I'd prefer to transition. I'd rather be me than live a lie.
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