Rape culture in India?
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In 2012 a medical student in India was gang raped on a moving bus by 6 men including the bus driver. The bus traveled for 31 kilometers. They even penetrated her with a metal rod and beat her with it. The 6 men then dumped the victim on a deserted road with her intestines ripped out and she was found only an hour later. She later died of her injuries in hospital.
Politicians in India then moved a motion in parliament to ban a documentary on the victim called India's Daughter.
[video="youtube;1Vlwmbf_IZo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vlwmbf_IZo[/video]
Politicians in India then moved a motion in parliament to ban a documentary on the victim called India's Daughter.
[video="youtube;1Vlwmbf_IZo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vlwmbf_IZo[/video]
Original post by ~Seraphina~
X
Are you not even going to reply to the articulate responses you've been given in this thread? What are you doing about the horrendous rape rate in your beloved perfect US?
Original post by Achaea
Are you not even going to reply to the articulate responses you've been given in this thread? What are you doing about the horrendous rape rate in your beloved perfect US?
I guess the elaborate post (#90) I made describing what I've ACTUALLY done (as a guy) to challenge the issue both here in Britain and in India has probably made her uncomfortable - especially after making all those cr*ppy assumptions about first generation Brits of Indian origin.
This is a very interesting video. The person in it speaks very good English.
[video="youtube;tuUOwg6Ay4A"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuUOwg6Ay4A[/video]
[video="youtube;tuUOwg6Ay4A"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuUOwg6Ay4A[/video]
Original post by MAINE.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3712875
This thread makes me think India doesnt have a rape culture at all. About 25k rapes have happened in India last year of women relative to a population of 1.3 billion, whereas in the UK they have 85k rapes of women relative a population of 65m.
If those numbers are true then it means rape is practically non-existent in India.
This thread makes me think India doesnt have a rape culture at all. About 25k rapes have happened in India last year of women relative to a population of 1.3 billion, whereas in the UK they have 85k rapes of women relative a population of 65m.
If those numbers are true then it means rape is practically non-existent in India.
As discussed in that thread, the 85k figure that gets trotted out is virtually baseless. The website it comes from bases it on a report that, if any of you actually bothered to read, says words to the effect of 'the figures used to estimate the total number of rapes should be interpreted with caution'. A caveat that people seem to love to ignore.
The same people that seem to enjoy stating the 85k figure as a hard fact, which it absolutely isn't, are the same people that are trying to draw similarities between one country's sets of data and definitions of rape, and another country's sets of data and definitions of rape. This is nothing short of foolishness. For example, the rate of rape in Sweden has been mentioned (actually itt) as one of the worst in the world, but nobody wants to mention that the Swedish reporting methods are wildly different to any other country's and if a woman is raped more than once by an attacker then each instance of penetration is recorded. The same thing in another country would only count as one incident.
Honestly, this is a student forum so I would imagine that many of you are at university or are going to be one day soon. If so, then perhaps (some of) you should practice a little academic integrity, learn how to read source material and develop impartiality.
Believe me, I know about American gun culture and school shootings. Texas passed a campus carry law and now I don't feel very safe going to university here. It's definitely my least favourite aspect of American culture. It just seems like everything I hear about other countries makes them seem like even worse places than the one I live in, and it's depressing to think that this is as good as life gets.
Given the rape statistics argument that's happened in my absence, I would concede that I'm unsure whether rape is disproportionately more common in India than other nations, although I would still argue that India has issues with rape and patriarchy just as the world does. At this point, though, I'm uncertain why the OP singled out India rather than talking about global rape culture.
On behalf of the United States, I would like to apologise for Seraphina's comments about Britain, the British welfare system, and British Indians in particular. I think that attacking the British welfare system and British Indians for not doing anything about problems in their country was inappropriate. They might have valid reasons to be afraid of going back, or really want to focus on building their lives. Also, as nucdev has posted, many of them often do go back to help Indian society so the generalisation was inappropriate.
Given the rape statistics argument that's happened in my absence, I would concede that I'm unsure whether rape is disproportionately more common in India than other nations, although I would still argue that India has issues with rape and patriarchy just as the world does. At this point, though, I'm uncertain why the OP singled out India rather than talking about global rape culture.
Original post by nucdev
Since you've also attacked my nation (Britain) for having the institutions that provide the dignity of a minimum standard of living, as well as social mobility through subsidised education; why doesn't your nation try giving the same human dignity at least for those military veterans (who have risked their lives to protect your's and other nations) begging on the streets of America just for a start?
Sure, the British welfare state is open to abuse, but rather have that than little human dignity provided for one's own citizens. I've been to America, I've seen the poor living on the streets of the world's wealthiest nation. We are not as wealthy, have limited space and resources, yet still find it in our hearts to provide basic human dignity with a more comprehensive welfare state.
Since you've also attacked my nation (Britain) for having the institutions that provide the dignity of a minimum standard of living, as well as social mobility through subsidised education; why doesn't your nation try giving the same human dignity at least for those military veterans (who have risked their lives to protect your's and other nations) begging on the streets of America just for a start?
Sure, the British welfare state is open to abuse, but rather have that than little human dignity provided for one's own citizens. I've been to America, I've seen the poor living on the streets of the world's wealthiest nation. We are not as wealthy, have limited space and resources, yet still find it in our hearts to provide basic human dignity with a more comprehensive welfare state.
On behalf of the United States, I would like to apologise for Seraphina's comments about Britain, the British welfare system, and British Indians in particular. I think that attacking the British welfare system and British Indians for not doing anything about problems in their country was inappropriate. They might have valid reasons to be afraid of going back, or really want to focus on building their lives. Also, as nucdev has posted, many of them often do go back to help Indian society so the generalisation was inappropriate.
Original post by MAINE.
If those numbers are true then it means rape is practically non-existent in India.
If those numbers are true then it means rape is practically non-existent in India.
No, it means that reporting rapes is practically impossible in India.
Original post by Josb
No, it means that reporting rapes is practically impossible in India.
Supply evidence that reporting rapes is 'practically impossible' in India. Explain how the perpetrators of rapes such as those that have become high profile, were caught and punished.
Also, provide comment on the epidemic of widespread unreported rapes in the UK/US/Europe. (Truly shocking figures here)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html
https://rainn.org/statistics
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/violence-against-women-eu
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TheBBQ
OP was probably pakistani tbh.
She's also banned. Serves her right.
Original post by Yawn!
Supply evidence that reporting rapes is 'practically impossible' in India. Explain how the perpetrators of rapes such as those that have become high profile, were caught and punished.
Also, provide comment on the epidemic of widespread unreported rapes in the UK/US/Europe. (Truly shocking figures here)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html
https://rainn.org/statistics
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/violence-against-women-eu
Also, provide comment on the epidemic of widespread unreported rapes in the UK/US/Europe. (Truly shocking figures here)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html
https://rainn.org/statistics
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/violence-against-women-eu
Here you go:
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2960435-9.pdf
"Only 1% of victims of sexual violence report the crime to the police."
(Compare this number with the UK.)
The situation is especially terrible for the untouchables, as 23% of the 100 million Dalit women have been raped.
http://idsn.org/uploads/media/Violence_against_Dalit_Woment.pdf
Original post by Josb
Here you go:
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2960435-9.pdf
"Only 1% of victims of sexual violence report the crime to the police."
(Compare this number with the UK.)
The situation is especially terrible for the untouchables, as 23% of the 100 million Dalit women have been raped.
http://idsn.org/uploads/media/Violence_against_Dalit_Woment.pdf
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2960435-9.pdf
"Only 1% of victims of sexual violence report the crime to the police."
(Compare this number with the UK.)
The situation is especially terrible for the untouchables, as 23% of the 100 million Dalit women have been raped.
http://idsn.org/uploads/media/Violence_against_Dalit_Woment.pdf
As is typical of a pseudo-intellectual, you quote data that on the surface supports your argument, but anyone who digs a little deeper can expose its irrelevance. It must have taken you a while to find an obscure source that slotted into your predetermined argument, as opposed to finding sources that actually inform your argument.
You said only 1% of victims in India report sexual violence. This is based on the source you provided, that quoted the figure from an article that itself got the figure from a survey done by the 'DHS program' (democratic and health survey) based in the US. This data reveals that the 1% figure is accurate......for 2005.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/5/602.full.pdf+html
Similarly your second source is also 10 years out of date.
In addition, looking at the methodology of the actual survey in question, there are several question marks on how accurate the data is. For example it is stated that ''The DHS Program has adopted a policy of editing and imputation''. In other words 'missing values' are replaced with 'substituted values. It goes on to say ''“Missing,” “inconsistent,” “don’t know,” and “blank” codes are excluded when calculating statistics such as means or medians''. In other words, unless the respondent provides a clear answer to the question (which given the illiteracy, lack of proficiency in English or written skills, lack of social/communication skills, cultural stigmas and social pressures, and subsequent inability of the respondents to answer the survey completely and accurately), it is entirely possible that many 'missing values' were substituted with incorrect values. To conclude, the reliability of the survey's findings are in question.
I could provide more recent sources (that put the number of unreported rapes in India from 10% to 58%) to counter yours. However, the fact is, none of them would be definitive since there is currently no reliable way to calculate how many rapes go unreported in any country, let alone India.
It is not only telling that you used such flawed data to support your (non)argument, but it is also telling that you completely ignored the challenge to comment on instances of reported rape in the UK/US/Europe. Thus you have exposed yourself as having the same kind of limited understanding of the issue (and borderline racist views) as the OP.
You can pull as many figures and percentages on unreported rape you like. The fact is none of them are definitive, and are very likely to be inaccurate, especially in nations where collecting this kind of data is extremely difficult.
Now going back to the original request that you conveniently dodged - Supply evidence that it is 'practically impossible' to report rape in India.
Don't just post questionable rape statistics from obscure sources. Explain thoroughly how it is 'practically impossible to report rape in India'. Details of your knowledge on this topic, how you accumulated it, as well as experience you have had observing the reporting of rape in India should also be provided.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Yawn!
As is typical of a pseudo-intellectual, you quote data that on the surface supports your argument, but anyone who digs a little deeper can expose its irrelevance. It must have taken you a while to find an obscure source that slotted into your predetermined argument, as opposed to finding sources that actually inform your argument.
You said only 1% of victims in India report sexual violence. This is based on the source you provided, that quoted the figure from an article that itself got the figure from a survey done by the 'DHS program' (democratic and health survey) based in the US. This data reveals that the 1% figure is accurate......for 2005.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/5/602.full.pdf+html
Similarly your second source is also 10 years out of date.
In addition, looking at the methodology of the actual survey in question, there are several question marks on how accurate the data is. For example it is stated that ''The DHS Program has adopted a policy of editing and imputation''. In other words 'missing values' are replaced with 'substituted values. It goes on to say ''“Missing,” “inconsistent,” “don’t know,” and “blank” codes are excluded when calculating statistics such as means or medians''. In other words, unless the respondent provides a clear answer to the question (which given the illiteracy, lack of proficiency in English or written skills, lack of social/communication skills, cultural stigmas and social pressures, and subsequent inability of the respondents to answer the survey completely and accurately), it is entirely possible that many 'missing values' were substituted with incorrect values. To conclude, the reliability of the survey's findings are in question.
I could provide more recent sources (that put the number of unreported rapes in India from 10% to 58%) to counter yours. However, the fact is, none of them would be definitive since there is currently no reliable way to calculate how many rapes go unreported in any country, let alone India.
It is not only telling that you used such flawed data to support your (non)argument, but it is also telling that you completely ignored the challenge to comment on instances of reported rape in the UK/US/Europe. Thus you have exposed yourself as having the same kind of limited understanding of the issue (and borderline racist views) as the OP.
You can pull as many figures and percentages on unreported rape you like. The fact is none of them are definitive, and are very likely to be inaccurate, especially in nations where collecting this kind of data is extremely difficult.
Now going back to the original request that you conveniently dodged - Supply evidence that it is 'practically impossible' to report rape in India.
Don't just post questionable rape statistics from obscure sources. Explain thoroughly how it is 'practically impossible to report rape in India'. Details of your knowledge on this topic, how you accumulated it, as well as first hand experience you have had on the reporting of rape in India should also be provided.
You said only 1% of victims in India report sexual violence. This is based on the source you provided, that quoted the figure from an article that itself got the figure from a survey done by the 'DHS program' (democratic and health survey) based in the US. This data reveals that the 1% figure is accurate......for 2005.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/5/602.full.pdf+html
Similarly your second source is also 10 years out of date.
In addition, looking at the methodology of the actual survey in question, there are several question marks on how accurate the data is. For example it is stated that ''The DHS Program has adopted a policy of editing and imputation''. In other words 'missing values' are replaced with 'substituted values. It goes on to say ''“Missing,” “inconsistent,” “don’t know,” and “blank” codes are excluded when calculating statistics such as means or medians''. In other words, unless the respondent provides a clear answer to the question (which given the illiteracy, lack of proficiency in English or written skills, lack of social/communication skills, cultural stigmas and social pressures, and subsequent inability of the respondents to answer the survey completely and accurately), it is entirely possible that many 'missing values' were substituted with incorrect values. To conclude, the reliability of the survey's findings are in question.
I could provide more recent sources (that put the number of unreported rapes in India from 10% to 58%) to counter yours. However, the fact is, none of them would be definitive since there is currently no reliable way to calculate how many rapes go unreported in any country, let alone India.
It is not only telling that you used such flawed data to support your (non)argument, but it is also telling that you completely ignored the challenge to comment on instances of reported rape in the UK/US/Europe. Thus you have exposed yourself as having the same kind of limited understanding of the issue (and borderline racist views) as the OP.
You can pull as many figures and percentages on unreported rape you like. The fact is none of them are definitive, and are very likely to be inaccurate, especially in nations where collecting this kind of data is extremely difficult.
Now going back to the original request that you conveniently dodged - Supply evidence that it is 'practically impossible' to report rape in India.
Don't just post questionable rape statistics from obscure sources. Explain thoroughly how it is 'practically impossible to report rape in India'. Details of your knowledge on this topic, how you accumulated it, as well as first hand experience you have had on the reporting of rape in India should also be provided.
I gave you a source coming from the Lancet, which is one the most famous academic journals in the world and you attack me as if I gave you a link to an instagram account.
Aren't you a bit dishonest?
Original post by Josb
I gave you a source coming from the Lancet, which is one the most famous academic journals in the world and you attack me as if I gave you a link to an instagram account.
Aren't you a bit dishonest?
Aren't you a bit dishonest?
Am I supposed to be impressed because you used 'The Lancet' as a source? That journal has got data and statistics wrong in the past, you know. It is not infallible.
In any case, it seems to have gone completely over your head, but I actually bothered to check the source of the statistics the Lancet article sourced. I did not question the Lancet article as such, but rather the methodology used to collect the survey data said article went on to use as a source. The one sentence in the article that addressed this survey data (and the sentence you subsequently posted) being what I specifically challenged. Not the journal itself. Strain very hard, and you might just understand the difference.
Prestige of The Lancet aside
, I have already exposed the potential inaccuracies of the statistics you have provided, regardless of the, in your eyes, unquestionable source. (I, on the other hand, find no source above question.) It sounds like you're the dishonest one here. You have failed to answer the original request twice now and have sought to deflect it by posting random statistics. Are you too much of a coward to admit your ignorance has been exposed for all to see?
I'll repeat the request once again. Third times the charm, perhaps.
You said
Original post by Josb
No, it means that reporting rapes is practically impossible in India.
Supply evidence that it is 'practically impossible' to report rape in India, and explain thoroughly how it is 'practically impossible to report rape in India'. Details of your knowledge on this topic, how you came by it, and your personal experience on rape issues in India should also be provided.
Don't just post (always questionable) rape statistics to cover or deflect for you. You made a definitive statement on a nation you likely know little about. Back it up if you can.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Yawn!
Supply evidence that it is 'practically impossible' to report rape in India, and explain thoroughly how it is 'practically impossible to report rape in India'. Details of your knowledge on this topic, how you came by it, and your personal experience on rape issues in India should also be provided.
Supply evidence that it is 'practically impossible' to report rape in India, and explain thoroughly how it is 'practically impossible to report rape in India'. Details of your knowledge on this topic, how you came by it, and your personal experience on rape issues in India should also be provided.
By demanding so much, you make it impossible for me to answer you. Actually, very few people in the world would be able to comment on the subject with these requirements. I won't bother then.
However, if you cannot see what would happen to an untouchable woman who goes to the police to report a rape, I cannot do anything for you.
Original post by Josb
By demanding so much, you make it impossible for me to answer you. Actually, very few people in the world would be able to comment on the subject with these requirements. I won't bother then.
However, if you cannot see what would happen to an untouchable woman who goes to the police to report a rape, I cannot do anything for you.
However, if you cannot see what would happen to an untouchable woman who goes to the police to report a rape, I cannot do anything for you.
Excuse me? I'm not demanding much at all.
You made a definitive statement.
Original post by Josb
No, it means that reporting rapes is practically impossible in India.
Therefore, I assume you must have some intimate, in depth knowledge and experience of the subject you seem to speak on with such authority. I'm merely asking you the share that with all of us. Tell us how it is so.
Surely it cannot be the case that you were talking out of ignorance. That you were talking nonsense, and in fact have nothing to back up your loaded and provocative 'statement of fact'.
Ah, yes. Of course, I must defer to your obviously in-depth, expert knowledge and personal experiences of issues affecting untouchables in India. They are so lucky to have you fighting their corner. The ability of an ignorant, over-privileged Westerner to quote questionable statistics on a student website must have have all the campaigners who have been fighting for equality in India for decades, climbing over each other to show you gratitude.
.Original post by Yawn!
Excuse me? I'm not demanding much at all.
You made a definitive statement.
Therefore, I assume you must have some intimate, in depth knowledge and experience of the subject you seem to speak on with such authority. I'm merely asking you the share that with all of us. Tell us how it is so.
Surely it cannot be the case that you were talking out of ignorance. That you were talking nonsense, and in fact have nothing to back up your loaded and provocative 'statement of fact'.
Ah, yes. Of course, I must defer to your obviously in-depth, expert knowledge and personal experiences of issues affecting untouchables in India. They are so lucky to have you fighting their corner. The ability of an ignorant, over-privileged Westerner to quote questionable statistics on a student website must have have all the campaigners who have been fighting for equality in India for decades, climbing over each other to show you gratitude..
You made a definitive statement.
Therefore, I assume you must have some intimate, in depth knowledge and experience of the subject you seem to speak on with such authority. I'm merely asking you the share that with all of us. Tell us how it is so.
Surely it cannot be the case that you were talking out of ignorance. That you were talking nonsense, and in fact have nothing to back up your loaded and provocative 'statement of fact'.
Ah, yes. Of course, I must defer to your obviously in-depth, expert knowledge and personal experiences of issues affecting untouchables in India. They are so lucky to have you fighting their corner. The ability of an ignorant, over-privileged Westerner to quote questionable statistics on a student website must have have all the campaigners who have been fighting for equality in India for decades, climbing over each other to show you gratitude.
.I made a remark on a student website, I didn't write an article in a peer review journal. Get over it.
I see that you don't like when someone criticizes your country, but you will have to deal with it.
I will not convince someone who prefers to bury his head in the sand so I'm ending this conversation. Everybody can read it and see my arguments against your dishonesty.
Leaving the thread now.
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