Sexism Against Men and Female Privilege in the British ‘Justice’ System
Scroll to see replies
Original post by Stella Rubae
This is one of the reasons why as a man I am sexist af. Western women have no f***ing clue how easy their lives are, yet all they do is complain all the time.
Ahh yes men have awful lives and women have amazing fantastic lives with nothing to worry about at all.
You're a joke.
Original post by Stella Rubae
I cant work out if you're stupid or if you didnt even read one word of the first post?
Both.
Original post by olitre
The CONVICTION rate is lower because men commit more crimes than women.
Lol mate did you read the post?
One of the first lines is:
"In 2015 the conviction rate for murder for women was roughly 300% lower than that for men and 400% lower than the national average".
Statistics without context mean nothing.
Arguing that these statistics prove institutionalised sexism is the same as arguing that the pay-gap proves institutionalised sexism. AKA it doesn't.
I agree that men are hard-done by in the courts when it comes to male/female sentencing. For example, if a boy and a girl of 15 years old have sex then it is the boy who assumes legal responsibility for breaking the underage sex law and it is he that is liable to receive a sex offenders mark on his record.
Arguing that these statistics prove institutionalised sexism is the same as arguing that the pay-gap proves institutionalised sexism. AKA it doesn't.
I agree that men are hard-done by in the courts when it comes to male/female sentencing. For example, if a boy and a girl of 15 years old have sex then it is the boy who assumes legal responsibility for breaking the underage sex law and it is he that is liable to receive a sex offenders mark on his record.
Original post by stella rubae
lol mate did you read the post?
One of the first lines is:
"in 2015 the conviction rate for murder for women was roughly 300% lower than that for men and 400% lower than the national average".
One of the first lines is:
"in 2015 the conviction rate for murder for women was roughly 300% lower than that for men and 400% lower than the national average".
yes conviction means found guilty. More men are found guilty because more men are likely to commit crime.
These are just simple facts.
Original post by olitre
yes conviction means found guilty. More men are found guilty because more men are likely to commit crime.
These are just simple facts.
These are just simple facts.
Ok, I just realised I am talking to a doorknob.
Original post by Prudator
It says CONVICTION rate not CRIME rate - there's a difference, this meaning of the crimes committed, they are CONVICTED significantly less, not that they commit less crimes than men.
The example the original poster left is a prime example - if a drunk man got in a car without a drivers licence and ran over a women, it'd be a totally different story.
The example the original poster left is a prime example - if a drunk man got in a car without a drivers licence and ran over a women, it'd be a totally different story.
You're an idiot it doesn't mean that at all.
Conviction means found guilty of a crime. More men are found guilty as more men commit it. Do you not agree that for example most murderers will be men or do you there are more women murderers but they just get away with it because the feminist powers are in charged?
Original post by olitre
yes conviction means found guilty. More men are found guilty because more men are likely to commit crime.
These are just simple facts.
These are just simple facts.
This is so dim.
Yes, men as a demographic commit more crimes than women as a demographic. You know how much influence that should have on sentencing of individuals?
None.
Original post by sayan98
Both.
Admitting to ignorance and stupidity is the first step to positive change.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Stella Rubae
Ok, I just realised I am talking to a doorknob.
You will find that most all feminists are like this.....arguing with one gives you a headache...their level of ignorance, hypocrisy, stupidity and desperateness is inhuman.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by john2054
You said that women are at a greater risk of homelessness than men, and i said you were wrong. You clearly don't know what you are talking about i'm afraid. A man can do many months and years on the streets, even die there. This simply won't happen to a woman, in this situation.
He/She doesn't realise that his/her own argument reinforces the idea of female privilege in our society e.g. He/She argues that homeless women deserve favourable treatment over men.
He/she is raised in a culture that teaches him/her to give women favourable treatment. He/She argues that women deserve more help than men in homelessness. Yet he/she has the audacity to claim that he/she is fighting for equality. According to him/her homeless men can cope and women can't and so he says we should priotrises women over men. In this argument he/she reinforces the idea that women are weak and men strong....He/she reinforces sexism both against men and women. Feminists are so hypocritical it is embarrassing
Ask yourself, what happens in a society run by people like this, run by feminists? In such a society, homeless men fill the streets. Homeless men have to fight over shelters because there aren't enough to go around. Homeless women make up a non-existent minority of the homeless. Homeless women have more shelters than men. This is exactly what is happening in our society...Institutionalised feminism drives a sexist women first agenda in this country and is the biggest cause of sexism against men. Men and women need to wake up to this reality.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Moura
. If you were actually wondering why this whole issue exists it is because MEN in the past did not believe women as capable of acts of atrocity as men. It is men that caused this culture in law, and often men that uphold it still. The vast majority of judges are men. I wonder if you compared the sentences of male judges vs. female judges on women there would be any differences.
You generalise against a group of people and blame them for world problems based on nothing but their gender and you wander why people call feminism sexist and a problem ?
Ask yourself who benefits from this culture that you describe above? This culture that you blame on men in the sexist way that you have. Women benefit from it. Ergo female privilege. ....
Additionally, you use this same culture, that you blame on men, this same way of thinking, to the benefit of your gender when it suits you:
"All homelessness is devestating but women are at a greater risk by being homeless than men are so they have to be prioritised."
Hypocrisy much?
Original post by Moura
Women do not have the privilege in this society.
I beg to differ....Everything that has been written so far in this thread including your comments support the idea of female privilege....
Original post by Moura
It also doesn't change the fact that my point was that this has nothing to to do with feminism, which is what whoever I quoted was saying, it's the way it's always been (due to women being considered at most risk, after children). Its not a change due to feminism. If you do think it's unfair go out and protest about that instead of attacking feminism which is unrelated.
It doesn't seem like you read the entire thread. I wrote that violence against men is being ignored and this is thanks in large part to institutionalised feminism. Read the article written by Paula Neatte explaining why society should prioritise women over men. Read the acknowledgements in the report I cited in the thread and the paragraph explaining how this influenced the report. Read your OWN comments about prioritising homeless women.... I'm not sure if you realise it or not but you yourself suffer from this sexist women first mentality. The way you think homeless women deserve favourable treatment over men is a great example of this....Feminists like you are part of the problem/feminism IS part of the problem....
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by CookieButter
He/She doesn't realise that his/her own argument reinforces the idea of female privilege in our society e.g. He/She argues that homeless women deserve favourable treatment over men.
He/she is raised in a culture that teaches him/her to give women favourable treatment. He/She argues that women deserve more help than men in homelessness. Yet he/she has the audacity to claim that he/she is fighting for equality. According to him/her homeless men can cope and women can't and so he says we should priotrises women over men. In this argument he/she reinforces the idea that women are weak and men strong....He/she reinforces sexism both against men and women. Feminists are so hypocritical it is embarrassing
Ask yourself, what happens in a society run by people like this, run by feminists? In such a society, homeless men fill the streets. Homeless men have to fight over shelters because there aren't enough to go around. Homeless women make up a non-existent minority of the homeless. Homeless women have more shelters than men. This is exactly what is happening in our society...Institutionalised feminism drives a sexist women first agenda in this country and is the biggest cause of sexism against men. Men and women need to wake up to this reality.
He/she is raised in a culture that teaches him/her to give women favourable treatment. He/She argues that women deserve more help than men in homelessness. Yet he/she has the audacity to claim that he/she is fighting for equality. According to him/her homeless men can cope and women can't and so he says we should priotrises women over men. In this argument he/she reinforces the idea that women are weak and men strong....He/she reinforces sexism both against men and women. Feminists are so hypocritical it is embarrassing
Ask yourself, what happens in a society run by people like this, run by feminists? In such a society, homeless men fill the streets. Homeless men have to fight over shelters because there aren't enough to go around. Homeless women make up a non-existent minority of the homeless. Homeless women have more shelters than men. This is exactly what is happening in our society...Institutionalised feminism drives a sexist women first agenda in this country and is the biggest cause of sexism against men. Men and women need to wake up to this reality.
Honestly I've said everything I have to say, I strongly disagree with you about your apparent "feminist agenda world take over conspiracy theory" but I doubt anything will change your mind, I would just be repeating myself. I think you need to work on your comprehension skills because I never said any of the things that you've claimed I said. I don't at all think that homeless women "deserve" more help than men, I never said that. I also never said men can cope on the streets. I said that when on the streets homeless women are generally more vulnerable than homeless men (this in no way means that homeless men aren't vulnerable too). They are at greater risk of attack and abuse. The sexes equally deserve help, people aren't more important because of their sex, but the more vulnerable are prioritised for support. Women are generally seen to be in greater danger when they're on the street. This is probably why women get more support (IF they do get more support). In my opinion everyone should get help, obviously. I am just saying that IF it is the case that women get more support than men, and that is the reason why there are more homeless men than women (I do not know if it is), then this is probably why. The support for women shouldn't decrease, the support for men should increase.
My main point is that the homeless issue and the sentencing issue are nothing to do with the effect of feminism. It is just how our society has been since before feminism even existed. Society (which was run by men) saw women as the "fairer sex" and unable to commit crimes to the same degree as men etc. and they were more likely to help women on the street. It's like on the Titanic when women and children were allowed to leave first.
If you disagree with these two issues, as I'm sure many people including myself do, then you should campaign for change there instead of attacking feminism, which will not further your cause.
However it seems your main motive is to attack a campaign that has done the world of good for so many lives rather than actually caring about the inequalities that exist in these two areas.
(edited 7 years ago)
another thing that is very biased is things against men that would be serious if a woman was on the reciving end.
Rape, violence and emotional abuse are often taken less serious if it has happened to a man, and help services are very limited
Rape, violence and emotional abuse are often taken less serious if it has happened to a man, and help services are very limited
Original post by Chief Wiggum
If feminists were logically consistent, they should be calling for a 50% female prisoner quota.
Are you serious? Do you not see how ridiculous that statement is?
The vast majority of psychological research shows a clear distinction between males and females in regards to aggression. Females are aggressive, but less violent than males. There will always be less women in prison, because they commit less violent crimes.
I don't know about non-violent crimes such as theft, fraud and embezzlement however.
Original post by AperfectBalance
another thing that is very biased is things against men that would be serious if a woman was on the reciving end.
Rape, violence and emotional abuse are often taken less serious if it has happened to a man, and help services are very limited
Rape, violence and emotional abuse are often taken less serious if it has happened to a man, and help services are very limited
That stems from the very same sexist beliefs that effect women.
Benevolent sexism.
Women are seen as weaker, and males are to be seen as strong, and resilient.
Therefore when a woman commits a crime, it's taken less seriously because she's a weak, vulnerable woman.
Therefore when a man becomes a victim of rape or emotional abuse, he must not be a pussy, and react as a woman would. He must be strong and resilient, and to simply deny that it affected him.
These stem from the very beliefs that feminism fights. Stop seeing men as stronger and women as weaker, and this issue will be greatly diminished.
You can't argue. It's sheer logic.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Quantex
To argue that men are subject to sexism because there is a disparity in the statistics alone is analogous to arguing the gender pay gap is the result of sexism.
To prove a hypothesis/idea true we need correlation (proof of a statistical relationship between two variables e.g. proof of direct or indirect proportionality) and we need causation (proof that the change in one variable is caused by the other e.g. proof of cause and effect). Here we do not have statistics alone as you claim in your comment. Here we have both statistics (correlation) to prove that there is inequality (low conviction rates and lenient sentencing for women across the board) and we have causation (proof that the the low conviction rates are caused by sexism/inequality/favourable treatment towards women. You cannot compare this argument to the nonsense of the wage gap…Feminists do not have causation to prove that the wage gap is the result of sexism. In fact, in their case, causation proves the opposite. That the wage gap is not caused by sexism but rather by other other factors such as for example women working less hours, overall, than men….
The causation:
In the justice system we have clear causation to prove that the low conviction rates and lenient sentences are caused by a culture of sexism and female privilege. Causation is everywhere. Its in the laws e.g. direct orders to judges by the government to treat women more leniently than men:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1311004/Judges-ordered-mercy-women-criminals-deciding-sentences.html
Another example of causation in the law is that of women not being indictable for serious crimes such as rape. In such cases they are indicted for lesser crimes such as sexual assault which carry a lower sentence. Evidence for causality is also found in bias governmental reports that are written based on the guidance of feminist organisation, which argue in favour of favourable treatment for women and harsher treatment of men:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/380090/women-cjs-2013.pdf
Causation is also clear in our culture. A culture that preaches that "women do not do things like this". There are examples of cases of sexual assaults that have been dismissed by judges because the judge thought that women do not do crimes like this:
http://abuseguardian.com/no-one-wants-to-confront-female-sex-abuse/
You can find this sexist dismissive culture in all levels of authority from the police to the high courts.
Our culture preaches that women are to be protected and not harmed (incarcerated). Our culture values women over men. This culture campaigns morning day and night for the government to be more lenient towards women:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/10015766/Isnt-it-time-to-abolish-most-womens-prisons.html
Such culture greatly impacts the justice system and its outcomes.
Let me ask you a question. Don’t answer it. Just think about it. If I show you a video of a woman being hurt and one of a man being hurt both in the exact same way, would you react to both videos in the same way? I am willing to bet you that you wont. I am willing to bet you that you would feel outraged by the hurt afflicting the woman more so than you would the man…..You find this sexist culture everywhere in our society even in courts where it impacts outcomes greatly. Read the following passage:
Los Angeles District Attorney, Thomas L. Woolwine Nov. 25. 1923:
“There can be no question that it is more difficult to convict a woman for any offence than a man.
The reason it is well night impossible to punish women for crimes of violence in particular is simple: It is because they are women, and because sex plays a vital part in every such trial.
Men are innately loath to punish women. Women naturally arouse a feeling of false chivalry in men which allays and tempers their judgment upon the evidence.
It is more difficult for a prosecutor to overcome this powerful factor than it is to convince a jury upon the state of facts presented.”
The next time you watch a movie try this out…gauge how you react to a woman being subjected to violence and how you react to a man being subjected to violence…..Watch The Hateful Eight by Quentin Tarantino….You’ll get what I mean.
Evidence of causation to support female privilage in the justice system is everywhere…it is as clear as light. The causation is so clear that even feminists have cocnluded in their research that the justice system is clearly bias in favour of women:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1557085111430214
What is most comical about this feminist finding is that they initially set out to prove a feminist theory called “evil women hypothesis”. In this Hypothesis feminists claim that women are more harshly treated by the justice system than men…..in setting out to prove this theory of female victimhood they found the opposite to be true as is shown in the study above.
Original post by Quantex
Could other issues be involved? For example, one would assume the average male in court will receive a longer sentence because there are more aggravating and less mitigating factors involved.
That's a good question. Could other factors such as for example men having previous criminal records be playing a part in the lower conviction rates and lenient sentencing?
I will let the abstract from the following seminal paper answer this question for you (note- The USA has a similar gender gap in the justice system to UK as do many other countries around the globe. This is a global phenomena) :
“Gender and Sentencing in the Federal Courts: Are Women Treated More Leniently?
Using data from the United States Sentencing Commission (2001-2003), we examine the role of gender in the sentencing of defendants in federal courts. We address two questions: First, can we explain the gender gap in sentencing by taking into account differences in legal and extralegal factors? And second, do legal and extralegal factors have the same impact for male and female defendants?
Overall, we find that female defendants receive more lenient sentence outcomes than their male counterparts. Legal factors account for a large portion of the gender differences, but even after controlling for legal characteristics a substantial gap in sentencing outcomes remains. Also, despite their influence on sentencing outcomes in some instances, extralegal characteristics do not help to close the gender gap. Finally, when male and female defendants are examined separately, we find that not all legal and extralegal factors weigh equally for male and female defendants.”
I can go on and on and on and on....and in more detail....but I think I have made my point.
There is a problem of sexism in the justice system. Not just here in the UK but across the globe. Your dismissive comment empowers this problem...
Wake up!!! don't stand in our way. Don't compare us to feminism. You only wind up hurting equality.
(This reply is a bit of a mess. I'm a little bit busy at the moment so I don't really have time to tidy it up.)
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by CookieButter
Admitting to ignorance and stupidity is the first step to positive change.
You're white
Original post by Quantex
Unfortunately the male victimisation movement of guilty is the same lazy thinking as feminists. To argue that men are subject to sexism because there is a disparity in the statistics alone is analogous to arguing the gender pay gap is the result of sexism.
Could other issues be involved? For example, one would assume the average male in court will receive a longer sentence because there are more aggravating and less mitigating factors involved.
Could other issues be involved? For example, one would assume the average male in court will receive a longer sentence because there are more aggravating and less mitigating factors involved.
This is sort of the point for analysis isn't it. Are two crimes ever completely the same? There are a huge number of variables that are extremely complex.
"The conviction ratio increased for both male and female defendants between 2003 and 2008 and then remained broadly stable. It has been consistently slightly higher for females than males over the past decade. For defendants appearing at the Crown Court in 2013, males were nearly twice as likely as females to be remanded in custody. Of those remanded in custody, males were more likely to go on to receive an immediate custodial sentence. For both male and female offenders in the five years from 2009 to 2013, fines were the most common sentence at court. Males were more likely to be given an immediate custodial sentence than females. The different disposal profiles of males and females can be largely attributed to the different types of offences they commit, with females more likely to commit the less serious, summary offences. In 2013, custody was the most common sentence for males for indictable offences, whilst community sentences were the most common sentence outcome for females. Of those sentenced to custody for indictable offences, the average custodial sentence lengths were lower for female offenders compared with male offenders for all offence groups"
Here's what is interesting, the same offence showing different trends by gender although you might want to factor in "Female offenders were less likely than male offenders to have any previous cautions or convictions throughout the ten years from 2003 to 2013, with a third of females and only a fifth of males being first-time offenders in 2013.". This could easily turn into a full essay so long story short you would need to do a comparison of exactly the same offence, or as close as possible for example a male bottling a person at a bar and a female bottling a person at a bar...both randomly for no reason without interaction. Of course there are still hundreds of variables. How much damage was done (males are generally stronger so would likely do more damage)? What defence to they give in court and how good is their lawyer? Which judge do they get, different judges interpret and sentence differently etc etc, even something as simple as a tattoo they didn't realise had violent or gang affiliations when they got it, whether or not they cry or seem remorseful in court (though personally I don't see why that matters, they weren't remorseful when offending). Statistics are useful but not a total guide unless you break them all down.
Some interesting stats to highlight the issue is family court. Overwhelming awards to women in terms of child custody and the like despite the obvious similar background, no history of abuse on either side of any party, often no priors on either side and the male tends to have a more stable or better paying job. These are more convincing statistics to my mind, I don't think the criminal system is particularly biased (although some of their rulings on female paedophilia are very questionable), but perhaps other areas warrant more investigation.
Also men are both the overwhelming victims and perpetrators of violence. So blokes fight a lot (everyone knows this, its empirically obvious)
Original post by sayan98
They commit less crimes.
Which is irrelevant to if the sentence for the same crime is different.
My own experience: Went to Spain for 10 days with GF (now EX of course). She started behaving extremely impudent and careless towards me, my efforts to take us both (she contributed about 70 quid and rest 1,500 from my side) for holidays. Having respect to myself told her to get out of rented flat with all her stuff but she just didn't go, started recording me on phone, was holding transparent entrance door when I went out and recording me on phone camera. Called police 4-5 times asking to send someone to take person who should not be in my rented flat and police was 200% useless. Did it because wanted to do everything lawfully. Then took her phone away from her, she started screaming at 3 am like she is being stabbed 20 times, went outside and threw her phone away. According to law I damaged her property but on my way out she scratched my back badly, spoiled clothes. As soon as I threw her phone away she ran away. Then after 10 min police came, finally, but they were after me because she reported me for attempt of murder: she lied that I was chasing her with kitchen knife but I found this out after some time in cell and court where I was given a warning and released. If she could have stayed, I would probably be in prison now because of her fake allegations.
The problem is that authorities, especially in Spain trust women by default and in Spain you will then have to prove that you didn't do something illegal against a woman rather than for court and police to prove that you did it because word of women are considered to be 100% true thus they can do whatever they like and when you are going to reply in some way-report you. Aggression and illegal actions from women side are not taken into account at all.
Lesson learned, I am fine without women, hope they are going to be fine with their cats.
The problem is that authorities, especially in Spain trust women by default and in Spain you will then have to prove that you didn't do something illegal against a woman rather than for court and police to prove that you did it because word of women are considered to be 100% true thus they can do whatever they like and when you are going to reply in some way-report you. Aggression and illegal actions from women side are not taken into account at all.
Lesson learned, I am fine without women, hope they are going to be fine with their cats.
Quick Reply
Latest
Trending
Last reply 2 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 2 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
