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Are Blacks actually disadvantaged socially in the UK?
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Original post by Truths
Oh wow. Same op. Which black boy stole your crush and **** in your coffee because it’s not normal to be this pressed and obsessed.
Will you actually answer the question this time instead of resorting to last ditch personal attacks?
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by AperfectBalance
i
No one 'speaks for black people' nor does being x means you cannot accurately comment on the issues of y in general
No one 'speaks for black people' nor does being x means you cannot accurately comment on the issues of y in general
Yes, but you cannot argue the non-existence of a major situation because you have certain cases that stick out.
People should stop making foolish arguments like ”oh, I know so and so, therefore, this does not exist or is false”.
This is what some racists do. They point to the one black man out of the 1,000 white bankers and say “oh, look, there is a black man here. So black people have made it”
Multiculturalism is a failed ideology. Some classes in my school are 100% white, whereas a few miles up the road, the class will be less than 10% white. There are only two black girls in my entire year of around 130 people. And they all live in the deprived housing estate down the road. I don't know any blacks who live in what is considered an affluent or middle class area.
In education.
Black children are being systematically marked down by their teachers who are unconsciously stereotyping them, it has been revealed.
Academics looked at the marks given to thousands of children at age 11. They compared their results in Sats, nationally set tests marked remotely, with the assessments made by teachers in the classroom and in internal tests. The findings suggest that low expectations are damaging children's prospects.
The study concludes that black pupils perform consistently better in external exams than in teacher assessment. The opposite is true for Indian and Chinese children, who tend to be "over-assessed" by teachers. It also finds that white children from very poor neighbourhoods were under-assessed when compared with their better-off peers.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2010/apr/04/sats-marking-race-stereotypes
Black children are being systematically marked down by their teachers who are unconsciously stereotyping them, it has been revealed.
Academics looked at the marks given to thousands of children at age 11. They compared their results in Sats, nationally set tests marked remotely, with the assessments made by teachers in the classroom and in internal tests. The findings suggest that low expectations are damaging children's prospects.
The study concludes that black pupils perform consistently better in external exams than in teacher assessment. The opposite is true for Indian and Chinese children, who tend to be "over-assessed" by teachers. It also finds that white children from very poor neighbourhoods were under-assessed when compared with their better-off peers.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2010/apr/04/sats-marking-race-stereotypes
Original post by e^iπ
But what barriers do blacks face uniquely that other minorities don't?
The first are socio-economic conditions. Please do your research!
Black people in London who are caught in possession of cocaine are charged, rather than cautioned, at a much higher rate than their white counterparts. In 2009/10 the Metropolitan Police charged 78 per cent of black people caught in possession of cocaine compared with 44 per cent of whites.
https://www.release.org.uk/publications/numbers-black-and-white-ethnic-disparities-policing-and-prosecution-drug-offences
https://www.release.org.uk/publications/numbers-black-and-white-ethnic-disparities-policing-and-prosecution-drug-offences
Original post by Wired_1800
You missed the point. Just because your personal experience does not show a particular situation does not mean that it does not exist.
I went to a top boarding school where no woman has been molested or abused or whatever. Even up until today, I have never had a close case of sexual abuse, harrasment or assault by any woman in my circle. Now, it would be idiotic to say that MeToo or feminism is far fetched because I have not had any direct experience.
You may have lived in your ignorant bubble does not mean that there is not life bubbling outside it. Many black people have experiences of barriers that have affected them, their family or community. Trying to argue it away is a bit stupid.
I went to a top boarding school where no woman has been molested or abused or whatever. Even up until today, I have never had a close case of sexual abuse, harrasment or assault by any woman in my circle. Now, it would be idiotic to say that MeToo or feminism is far fetched because I have not had any direct experience.
You may have lived in your ignorant bubble does not mean that there is not life bubbling outside it. Many black people have experiences of barriers that have affected them, their family or community. Trying to argue it away is a bit stupid.
I dont really know what you mean by 'ignorant bubble' because quite frankly, you dont know me. I have moved schools many times (to state and private schools) and I have not witnessed any discrimination is literally ALL I am saying and I don't think it is simply coincidence. Of course there will be instances when there is discrimination towards black people, but it is not as common as people try and make it seem. I understand where you are coming from though in case you think I am being racist against myslef.
Such studies also illustrated that BME households were more likely to wait longer for a housing offer, to be offered poorer quality homes, and flats rather than houses. Some housing officers were seen to be steering BME applicants away from white neighbourhoods, based on judgments about social class as well as racial grounds
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/jul/06/britain-housing-crisis-racist-bme-homelessness
Happy reading!
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/jul/06/britain-housing-crisis-racist-bme-homelessness
Happy reading!
Original post by Wired_1800
Are you black? Do you speak for black people?
it seems that you are a woman. Imagine, if I say that, as a man, I dont think women have any issues and MeToo / Feminism is BS; wouldn’t I come across as an idiot because I am not a woman?
Try to educate yourself. Ignorance is no longer respected.
it seems that you are a woman. Imagine, if I say that, as a man, I dont think women have any issues and MeToo / Feminism is BS; wouldn’t I come across as an idiot because I am not a woman?
Try to educate yourself. Ignorance is no longer respected.
im a female and tbh feminism is bs. i have never felt repressed due to my gender and tbh i dont think many other girls in the west have either. yes we all have struggles but most of the time they arent society's fault.
Original post by Truths
In education.
Black children are being systematically marked down by their teachers who are unconsciously stereotyping them, it has been revealed.
Academics looked at the marks given to thousands of children at age 11. They compared their results in Sats, nationally set tests marked remotely, with the assessments made by teachers in the classroom and in internal tests. The findings suggest that low expectations are damaging children's prospects.
The study concludes that black pupils perform consistently better in external exams than in teacher assessment. The opposite is true for Indian and Chinese children, who tend to be "over-assessed" by teachers. It also finds that white children from very poor neighbourhoods were under-assessed when compared with their better-off peers.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2010/apr/04/sats-marking-race-stereotypes
Black children are being systematically marked down by their teachers who are unconsciously stereotyping them, it has been revealed.
Academics looked at the marks given to thousands of children at age 11. They compared their results in Sats, nationally set tests marked remotely, with the assessments made by teachers in the classroom and in internal tests. The findings suggest that low expectations are damaging children's prospects.
The study concludes that black pupils perform consistently better in external exams than in teacher assessment. The opposite is true for Indian and Chinese children, who tend to be "over-assessed" by teachers. It also finds that white children from very poor neighbourhoods were under-assessed when compared with their better-off peers.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2010/apr/04/sats-marking-race-stereotypes
If the black children performed consistently better than teacher assesments, this indicates that the teachers assesment didn't actually affect the pupils ability to do well in exams, but the standard was still not high enough.
Also the same problem is identified with poor whites, so this isn't a black only issue and the accusations of racism and prejudice have no weight behind them
Original post by Truths
Black people in London who are caught in possession of cocaine are charged, rather than cautioned, at a much higher rate than their white counterparts. In 2009/10 the Metropolitan Police charged 78 per cent of black people caught in possession of cocaine compared with 44 per cent of whites.
https://www.release.org.uk/publications/numbers-black-and-white-ethnic-disparities-policing-and-prosecution-drug-offences
https://www.release.org.uk/publications/numbers-black-and-white-ethnic-disparities-policing-and-prosecution-drug-offences
The only black people who are disadvantaged here are those that are caught in possession of cocaine. I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic of social mobility.
Original post by Truths
Such studies also illustrated that BME households were more likely to wait longer for a housing offer, to be offered poorer quality homes, and flats rather than houses. Some housing officers were seen to be steering BME applicants away from white neighbourhoods, based on judgments about social class as well as racial grounds
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/jul/06/britain-housing-crisis-racist-bme-homelessness
Happy reading!
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/jul/06/britain-housing-crisis-racist-bme-homelessness
Happy reading!
I'm not denying what you are saying but can you link the actually source of the information rather than the guardian article?
It's interesting how large numbers of Asian children from families where parents are quite poor or in low skilled jobs have become doctors, accountants etc. or at least managed to attain a comfortable middle class lifestyle as adults but it cannot be said for black Jamaican children from similar backgrounds despite claims that they share a religion and language with the white British folk. Interestingly, black African children perform better academically than black Jamaican children, as well as being far less likely to get involved in drugs and crime, and some evidence suggests that social mobility is higher in certain black African communities than it is in black Jamaican communities.
Also, why do black Jamaican boys overwhelmingly gravitate towards sports and music at school but dislike STEM subjects?
This is pointing in a direction that failures of black Jamaicans are a result of culture and attitude more so than race and financial status.
Also, why do black Jamaican boys overwhelmingly gravitate towards sports and music at school but dislike STEM subjects?
This is pointing in a direction that failures of black Jamaicans are a result of culture and attitude more so than race and financial status.
Original post by qwertyK
Multiculturalism is a failed ideology. Some classes in my school are 100% white, whereas a few miles up the road, the class will be less than 10% white. There are only two black girls in my entire year of around 130 people. And they all live in the deprived housing estate down the road. I don't know any blacks who live in what is considered an affluent or middle class area.
Because the system is rigged. Some people dont undestand the whole dynamics of race, wealth and privilege.
To get a top job, you have to have a good education; to get a good education; you have to go to a good state or private school; to go to a good private school, you have to be rich; to go to a good state school, you have to be living or have lived in a catchment area that has those schools.
The above is just about schooling, we have not discussed on socioeconomic conditions like adequate parenting where both parents or one parent (single parent households) are trying to hold down 2-3 jobs to make ends meet.
We have not mentioned adequate feeding, support network, after-school activities to boost your chances of going to the decent schools or Russell Group universities, protection from violence from living in deprived areas etc.
There are so many complex factors that are involved, but people are so ignorant that they either don't fully understand it or refuse to acknowledge it.
There was a scheme that was done more than 10 years ago, where the government funded scholarships for a group of poor black and asian kids to go to the top private schools like Eton and Harrow. All of those kids are doing well now and supporting their communities. Unfortunately, a government official cancelled the project and put the money into free school meals. Imagine if more black and asian kids went through that project and gave back to their communities.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by e^iπ
If the black children performed consistently better than teacher assesments, this indicates that the teachers assesment didn't actually affect the pupils ability to do well in exams, but the standard was still not high enough.
Also the same problem is identified with poor whites, so this isn't a black only issue and the accusations of racism and prejudice have no weight behind them
Also the same problem is identified with poor whites, so this isn't a black only issue and the accusations of racism and prejudice have no weight behind them
Yeh no. Your teachers expections have a fundemantal role in your performance in school. If you have set 1 potential and you put in set 3, that has material consequences later in education. Here you have one clear reason why black students don’t always grade as well comparatively. They are treated differently by teachers. That’s not something you can shrug off. It’s abysmal.
I knew you would cling to the poor whites thing. As if racism and classism can’t exist at the same time. If it was simply an issue of class why weren’t Asian students overestimated? Nice try.
Original post by ErinaNakiri78
I dont really know what you mean by 'ignorant bubble' because quite frankly, you dont know me. I have moved schools many times (to state and private schools) and I have not witnessed any discrimination is literally ALL I am saying and I don't think it is simply coincidence. Of course there will be instances when there is discrimination towards black people, but it is not as common as people try and make it seem. I understand where you are coming from though in case you think I am being racist against myslef.
Are you black? Where do you live? Are you from an impoverished inner city community in London or the bog standard english towns.
not witnessing any discrimination does not mean that it does not happen. That is the point that I am trying to get the OP to understand. Racism, prejudice and discrimination are real.
At least you have been to a private school. There are many people that have never ever set foot in an independent school. What they have, are teachers who cannot be bothered, communities riddled with drugs and crime, parents who are trying to earn enough to put food on the table, local authorities that would rather put them in jail than give them extra support to achieve the potential.
Yes, you are right, I dont know you. If you are black and you have suffered through the harshest elements of British society, then you should recognise what is been talked about. If you made it out of the jungle and you are now successful, dont bash everyone else because you made it. It is what people are talking about with successful black people who forgot where they came from.
Original post by ErinaNakiri78
I dont really know what you mean by 'ignorant bubble' because quite frankly, you dont know me. I have moved schools many times (to state and private schools) and I have not witnessed any discrimination is literally ALL I am saying and I don't think it is simply coincidence. Of course there will be instances when there is discrimination towards black people, but it is not as common as people try and make it seem. I understand where you are coming from though in case you think I am being racist against myslef.
I’m sorry hun, but until you walk through then shoes of a black person i dont see you think you can even begin to grasp what black peoples experience. Just because you don’t see it (why would you, you’re not subjected to it), it must not exist at the severity explained. That’s some heavy white narcisism there.
Original post by Wired_1800
Because the system is rigged. Some people dont undestand the whole dynamics of race, wealth and privilege.
To get a top job, you have to have a good education; to get a good education; you have to go to a good state or private school; to go to a good private school, you have to be rich; to go to a good state school, you have to be living or have lived in a catchment area that has those schools.
The above is just about schooling, we have not discussed on socioeconomic conditions like adequate parenting where both parents or one parent (single parent households) are trying to hold down 2-3 jobs to make ends meet.
We have not mentioned adequate feeding, support network, after-school activities to boost your chances of going to the decent schools or Russell Group universities, protection from violence from living in deprived areas etc.
There are so many complex factors that are inviolved, but people are so ignorant that they either don't fully understand it or refuse to acknowledge it.
There was a scheme that was done more than 10 years ago, where the government funded scholarships fora group of poor black and asian kids to go to the top private schools like Eton and Harrow. All of those kids are doing well now and supporting their communities. Unfortunately, a government official cancelled the project and put the money into free school meals. Imagine if more black and asian kids went through that project and gave back to their communities.
To get a top job, you have to have a good education; to get a good education; you have to go to a good state or private school; to go to a good private school, you have to be rich; to go to a good state school, you have to be living or have lived in a catchment area that has those schools.
The above is just about schooling, we have not discussed on socioeconomic conditions like adequate parenting where both parents or one parent (single parent households) are trying to hold down 2-3 jobs to make ends meet.
We have not mentioned adequate feeding, support network, after-school activities to boost your chances of going to the decent schools or Russell Group universities, protection from violence from living in deprived areas etc.
There are so many complex factors that are inviolved, but people are so ignorant that they either don't fully understand it or refuse to acknowledge it.
There was a scheme that was done more than 10 years ago, where the government funded scholarships fora group of poor black and asian kids to go to the top private schools like Eton and Harrow. All of those kids are doing well now and supporting their communities. Unfortunately, a government official cancelled the project and put the money into free school meals. Imagine if more black and asian kids went through that project and gave back to their communities.
Textbooks are very cheap (far cheaper than an iPhone or a pair of beats headphones) and it isn't possible to teach yourself the syllabus from these resources alone.
I went to one of the poorest performing state school in Scotland and yet managed to get into a Russel group university. I didn't have any fancy extracurriculars or work experience at my dad's company and was let in purely on the basis of grades and an interest in my subject (let's end the myth that universities actually care about ECs that much).
The school I went to was quite rough and classes were being constantly disrupted by unruly pupil (thugs) there was even a case of a physical assault against a teacher.
Now this obviously wore the teachers down an so they weren't as proactive as a teacher at Eton or Harrow but at the same time they wouldn't refuse any pupil who asked for help.
I reckon my school was pretty representative of most poorly performing state school in the UK including those in inner city London.
And that's what I'm trying to argue here. While I admit that that someone attending a poorly performing state school will not have the same advantages as someone from an affluent area going to a good school, they certainly won't be disadvantaged if they actually care about their education
Original post by e^iπ
I'm not denying what you are saying but can you link the actually source of the information rather than the guardian article?
The journal is literally hyperlinked in red, both in my post and the gaurdian article...
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