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Are feminists too extreme now days or is it not enough? Watch

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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    Feminism does have an interest in calling out the morons. And they do! But it is a shame the media has so much influence that spreads the message of the minority, making it stronger.

    It’s hard for us to tell what is and isn’t feminism. But it certainly shouldn’t be (and IS NOT for the majority) a man hating session.

    I completely understand where you’re coming from, but we can’t give in to a few and shatter an entire, very valid movement.

    It would be like abolishing religion for the sake of extremists. God no.
    I agree - but I think it says a lot about the scale of the problem when the media can sell enough copies by latching onto thoroughly vile opinions from self proclaimed feminists. I have NEVER seen a feminist - and I watch quite a few for the sake of fairness, and have read a fair number of academic papers - say 'this feminist is wrong and an idiot and doesn't represent us because the views they espouse are stupid' - in fact the only feminist I know to have done that (Hoff Summers) was chucked out because she questioned statistics that are blatant lies based on a study in which the author said these are point of interest and not remotely applicable to society as a whole. Whereas in other communities there is a lot of 'infighting' based on different interpretations.

    Isn't that the problem? You state with absolute certainty 'Feminism. Is. Equality' and then tell me it's hard to say what is and isn't feminism - those two statements are contradictory. Do you have proof of the 'majority opinion' or the 'popular opinion'? Where does this certainty come from?

    It is validated for its own sake. Much of it is predicated on invalid logic, that is looking at the end result to assume a premise and simply put that doesn't work. I don't see feminism fighting for much that isn't explained by biology or common sense. There are a few issues that are legit of course but they are buried under boatloads of absolute drivel and nonsense. I see nothing that validates the movement inherently as it stands unless it does a serious internal cleanup.

    Religion causes the extremism. Same principle. Those who believe in equality would find another outlet, those who did not would be exposed. There's a reason every church has so many splinter groups.
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    I agree - but I think it says a lot about the scale of the problem when the media can sell enough copies by latching onto thoroughly vile opinions from self proclaimed feminists. I have NEVER seen a feminist - and I watch quite a few for the sake of fairness, and have read a fair number of academic papers - say 'this feminist is wrong and an idiot and doesn't represent us because the views they espouse are stupid' - in fact the only feminist I know to have done that (Hoff Summers) was chucked out because she questioned statistics that are blatant lies based on a study in which the author said these are point of interest and not remotely applicable to society as a whole. Whereas in other communities there is a lot of 'infighting' based on different interpretations.

    Isn't that the problem? You state with absolute certainty 'Feminism. Is. Equality' and then tell me it's hard to say what is and isn't feminism - those two statements are contradictory. Do you have proof of the 'majority opinion' or the 'popular opinion'? Where does this certainty come from?

    It is validated for its own sake. Much of it is predicated on invalid logic, that is looking at the end result to assume a premise and simply put that doesn't work. I don't see feminism fighting for much that isn't explained by biology or common sense. There are a few issues that are legit of course but they are buried under boatloads of absolute drivel and nonsense. I see nothing that validates the movement inherently as it stands unless it does a serious internal cleanup.

    Religion causes the extremism. Same principle. Those who believe in equality would find another outlet, those who did not would be exposed. There's a reason every church has so many splinter groups.
    I should have worded that as in it’s difficult to say WHO (not what) is a feminist. Feminism is equality, plain and simple. But I mean, it’s hard for us to say who is or isn’t a feminist. Do I consider these extremists true feminists? Not at all. They miss the point. But do they believe in equality? I think some do, they just have a flawed mindset as to how to get there, and think they have to resort to dragging men down in order to build us up. That’s where the difficulty lies.

    It is the same principle. But you don’t see Christians abandoning what they believe in because a few people twist what it’s about. Same should apply with feminism.
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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    I should have worded that as in it’s difficult to say WHO (not what) is a feminist. Feminism is equality, plain and simple. But I mean, it’s hard for us to say who is or isn’t a feminist. Do I consider these extremists true feminists? Not at all. They miss the point. But do they believe in equality? I think some do, they just have a flawed mindset as to how to get there, and think they have to resort to dragging men down in order to build us up. That’s where the difficulty lies.

    It is the same principle. But you don’t see Christians abandoning what they believe in because a few people twist what it’s about. Same should apply with feminism.
    Ah I see - it is to you, and therefore your belief is one I entirely support. Our argument is based on the second part, in that you assume (a) plenty of extremists do genuinely want equality, and (b) they just have a flawed mindset.

    Regarding (a) I disagree, I think most extremists are acting out their own personal problems or views in a very public way such that they can use the power of mob mentality with an acceptable facade - that is their association with feminism. I think plenty of them couldn't care less and are using the fact feminists tend to uncritically support each other to bully and try to get their own way which has nothing to do with equality. Same as the MGTOW extremists who whinge on about how women want a walking wallet and their high school crush didn't go out with them because they didn't have a lamborghini and muscles rather than their entirely unsanitary view is based on an unwillingness to face up to personal failings.

    As for (b) This is true which is why I am championing the importance of telling these people to get a grip and forcing them to confront their own logical failings and inconsistencies - but feminism is too complicit in supporting these mindsets. In the simplest terms they should all be corrected in one sentence, how is dragging people down based on their gender consistent with promotion of gender equality? There is no rational answer and so anyone who behaves in this way should be noted to be outside the group as they are inconsistent with its beliefs - but they aren't.

    You do see them disavowing the idiots in their midst for example the round contempt for Westboro Baptist Church, and nobody can ask more than they exclude the lunatics but feminism doesn't take this step.
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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    That being said; gender equality hasn’t been achieved. Despite laws in place for equal pay, the gender pay gap is alive and thriving. It is an issue.
    Exactly. The 20% pay disparity is mystifying.
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    (Original post by Seungy_Han)
    Watch a video about feminists and just thought of this argument. Do feminits have to calm down a bit since gender equality has been achieved or is right now not enough? Personally I think some arguments for gender equality is kind of wrong. Like saying gender equality hasn't been achieved because there isn't enough women studying physcis.

    The physics thing isn't a stupid point - it is just one of the examples of many subjects (eg engineering) that women feel socially pressured not to do as they are "man jobs". Many of these male-dominated industries don't give equal opportunities to men and women in those subjects
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    the feminists ive come across at school are mostly anti white lol
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    (Original post by Ensorcell)
    The physics thing isn't a stupid point - it is just one of the examples of many subjects (eg engineering) that women feel socially pressured not to do as they are "man jobs". Many of these male-dominated industries don't give equal opportunities to men and women in those subjects
    And yet feminism never complains when things are the other way around.

    Let's consider healthcare. Surgery and Academic Medicine have traditionally been male-dominated. There is huge pressure from within those careers for change, hence there are huge efforts to encourage women, such as "Woman in Surgery" and "Athena Swan". There is a huge organisational force behind both of those initiatives.

    Staying within healthcare, nursing, on the other hand, is very female dominated. Are there any high-profile campaigns to increase male recruitment? Not to my knowledge... It simply isn't seen as a problem.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    And yet feminism never complains when things are the other way around.

    Let's consider healthcare. Surgery and Academic Medicine have traditionally been male-dominated. There is huge pressure from within those careers for change, hence there are huge efforts to encourage women, such as "Woman in Surgery" and "Athena Swan". There is a huge organisational force behind both of those initiatives.

    Staying within healthcare, nursing, on the other hand, is very female dominated. Are there any high-profile campaigns to increase male recruitment? Not to my knowledge... It simply isn't seen as a problem.
    Yet can you name any other industries in which it is the other way around? And yes it is a hugely female dominated industry but men are easily able to join and have no limitations in that.
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    (Original post by Ensorcell)
    Yet can you name any other industries in which it is the other way around? And yes it is a hugely female dominated industry but men are easily able to join and have no limitations in that.
    And women are able to be surgeons. Still we have campaigns to increase female representation, and statements that the current low proportion of women is unacceptable. Using your logic, stuff like "women in surgery" shouldnt exist, there shouldnt be keynote speeches at academic conferences about how to address the academic medicine gender gap etc.

    Complete double standards.
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    (Original post by Perfuddled)
    Exactly. The 20% pay disparity is mystifying.
    There is no gender pay gap. There does exist a gender earnings gap. They are two different things. Women on average earn less than men for a whole load of reasons including hours worked, length of service, type of job etc etc
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    (Original post by kekophobia)
    There is no gender pay gap. There does exist a gender earnings gap. They are two different things. Women on average earn less than men for a whole load of reasons including hours worked, length of service, type of job etc etc
    Got my figure from here: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/gend...losing-in.html

    E.g.: 'Women are paid 20 percent less than their male counterparts performing the same job, according to the Institute For Women's Policy Research. That is, for every dollar earned by a man working full-time, year-round, a woman working full-time, year-round earns $0.76'

    Apologies if I've made a mistake - if the figure is skewed, etc. I meant well.
 
 
 
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