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Is it transphobic to refuse to date a trans woman? asks the BBC
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Original post by artful_lounger
If you're refusing to date them because they're trans, then yes, by definition. Just like refusing to date someone black because they're black is racist. This also includes such veiled bigotry as it being "just a preference" to not date people from a given group...
So am I sexist for refusing to date a man? Of course not. Grow up.
It is not transphobic to not want to date someone who used to be the same gender (dare I say the word gender) as you.
I wouldnt date a women who used to be a man, but I would not deny them all the rights everyone else has becuase theyre trans.
Am I transphobic???
Original post by AmeliaLost
If you find them attractive, you've been on a few dates, they have your preferred set of genetalia and everything's going great up until you find out they were born a different sex to the one they now present as, at which point you reject them then yeah that's clearly transphobic. Sorry y'all, but unless you can give me another reason other than you find it creepy/weird/unnatural then it's clearly transphobic.
You can't compare it to trying to make a homosexual have a heterosexual relationship, because there's a fundamental mismatch of preferred genetalia.
Rejecting a pre-op person, is sad for the person who's being rejected, but understandable. Not everyone can get on board with all genetalia, and that's just personal preference. Can't be helped.
If you're rejecting someone who you had no idea was trans, until the moment they told you, then that's transphobia and you should feel bad.
The only exception I can think of, where it wouldn't be reacting based on prejudice and phobias, might be if you desperately wanted your own kids, that was your medium-term goal, and you'd reject an cis-preffered-sex person for being infertile/not wanting kids too too. Then it's just a goal mismatch.
You can't compare it to trying to make a homosexual have a heterosexual relationship, because there's a fundamental mismatch of preferred genetalia.
Rejecting a pre-op person, is sad for the person who's being rejected, but understandable. Not everyone can get on board with all genetalia, and that's just personal preference. Can't be helped.
If you're rejecting someone who you had no idea was trans, until the moment they told you, then that's transphobia and you should feel bad.
The only exception I can think of, where it wouldn't be reacting based on prejudice and phobias, might be if you desperately wanted your own kids, that was your medium-term goal, and you'd reject an cis-preffered-sex person for being infertile/not wanting kids too too. Then it's just a goal mismatch.
regarding post-op trans folk.. one day in the future you will be right. But as for now, a post-op transgender woman does not have the same genitals as a woman. Similarly with a post-op transgender man. The surgery is not yet good enough for it to be considered the same at all.
Most men will still see a difference between a vagina, and male genitals that have been surgically changed to resemble a vagina.
---
As for your point about falling for someone and finding out later. Would it apply if it were not a trans individual, and just a man pretending to be a woman. Lets say I dressed up as a woman, very convincingly and seduced a man, only to later reveal that I am still a man. Is that man then sexist for turning me down? If so, then we have re-defined sexuality to be discriminatory (in a negative sense, it is discriminatory in the innocent sense already).
The problem for people is that to the vast majority of the general public there is still a distinction between transwoman and woman. To you there is not, or should not be. So going from thinking you are dating a woman, to learning you are dating a trans-women.. in your eyes should not make a difference, they are the same in effect.. but for most of us, going from dating a woman to a transwoman is a substantial change.. one that they were not expecting and did not agree to from the start.
If they then have a problem with this they are discriminating against you.. yes. They have made a discriminatory judgement not to have a relationship with you. but guess what - discrimination in who we sleep with is essential. Its a fundamental right, and one that if we loose, we loose the definitions of rape for a start. We must, absolutly must, be able to discriminate between who we want to ****, and who we don't want to ****. And we must be able to do so without negative connotations, so long as both parties are consenting and the whole situation conforms with the current societal law. Its just a fundimental idea that underpins how we couple up and mate.
If we accept that discriminatory judgements between who we sleep with are ok...
and we can accept that CURRENTLY transgender women are not the same physically as women..
then there is no grounds for it to be transphobia, in the same way that refusing to sleep with a fat woman is not fat-shaming, and refusing to sleep with a jewish man is not anti-semitic.
Original post by safari24
Also lol at everyone trying arguing whether it's 'transphobic' without clearly defining the word.
thats because cannot by its nature have a clear meaning, as it relies on subjective judgements.
Transphobic = homophobic. both are used for acts of discrimination or prejudice against a certain group of people.
But what constitutes an act of discrimination or prejudice is not clear at all and highly debatable, so weather something is or isn't transphobic is hardly clear.
"If I don't want to date a member of the same sex does that make me sexist"
Race,gender whatever its all just preference and its the right of the individual to date who they want without being labeled phobic.
Race,gender whatever its all just preference and its the right of the individual to date who they want without being labeled phobic.
Original post by generallee
Nice to see that the BBC has its finger on the pulse of what really matters...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-42652947
Here's my two pennyworth, I'll find whoever I want attractive, end of. If you think that makes me transphobic, you can blow me. I couldn't care less.
Does anyone on here seriously allow someone else to dictate to them who they find and don't find sexually arousing, through the threat of being thought an ist or a phobe?
And how would it work in practice? Are we going to have hate crime legislation meaning anyone who turns down a transgender person who hits on them gets sent to jail??
Lunacy. Sheer lunacy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-42652947
Here's my two pennyworth, I'll find whoever I want attractive, end of. If you think that makes me transphobic, you can blow me. I couldn't care less.
Does anyone on here seriously allow someone else to dictate to them who they find and don't find sexually arousing, through the threat of being thought an ist or a phobe?
And how would it work in practice? Are we going to have hate crime legislation meaning anyone who turns down a transgender person who hits on them gets sent to jail??
Lunacy. Sheer lunacy.
Christ on a bike, what will they want of us next?
This will create a mind**** for the SJW types 
Obviously it is not -phobic to refuse to date anyone. But people can be transphobic about it; a lot of people feel the need to announce to the world "i'd never date a trans person" which is just as bad as saying "i'd never date a black person", it's unnecessary, just keep it to yourself. But just not wanting to data someone because you're not into them is perfectly fine, but it doesn't give you the excuse to be rude.
I know. Those people, who apparently want us all to love and be nice to each other, give out a lot of hate themselves.
Surely its patronising when its a SJW who isnt even part of the LGBT community. You know? The people taking offence on your behalf, even when you dont give two hoots!
Surely its patronising when its a SJW who isnt even part of the LGBT community. You know? The people taking offence on your behalf, even when you dont give two hoots!
Not the answer you're probably looking for but yes - no different to saying "how can I be racist, I'm black" or "how can i be misogynistic, I'm a woman", but if we take racism as racial prejudice and ignore the arguments about whether power is a necessity for something to be racist, both are perfectly possible - membership of a group doesn't rule out the possibility of prejudice against other members of the group; humans are excellent at that sort of doublethink.
I think its best if everyone just ignores them and leaves to virtue signal in the own special echo chambers
Original post by artful_lounger
Seeing as everything about "what [you] find attractive" is based on socially constructed ideals of Anglo-European traditional gender roles based on now millenia old patriarchal values from religious texts written when life expectancy for women was "childbirth", and centuries old white supremacist values to encourage and support a lucrative slave trade, yea you can.
What kind of dumb **** is this...?
What kind of dumb **** is this...?
Wow it' been a while since I've seen someone spout such a biased view of history.
I also wonder why the beauty standards and gender roles of other countries and cultures are never picked at like western ones, especially considering how many beauty standards and gender roles overlap between cultures... it always gives the feeling of people telling others to examine their biases but being ignorant to their own.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
On an individual basis - depends on your reason for doing so. Because you're not attracted to them? obviously not transphobic. Because "they used to be a man", where they'd be your type if they were cis? Yeah, that's transphobic.
On a general basis it still depends on the reason - wanting children as a reason comes to mind, on the basis that then you'd also not be interested in pursuing a long term relationship with a cis-women with fertility issues. It's arguably still related to the fact that they're trans, but you'd turn down cis for the same reason, so probably not transphobic.
On a general basis it still depends on the reason - wanting children as a reason comes to mind, on the basis that then you'd also not be interested in pursuing a long term relationship with a cis-women with fertility issues. It's arguably still related to the fact that they're trans, but you'd turn down cis for the same reason, so probably not transphobic.
Original post by artful_lounger
If you're refusing to date them because they're trans, then yes, by definition. Just like refusing to date someone black because they're black is racist. This also includes such veiled bigotry as it being "just a preference" to not date people from a given group...
If you don't want to date them because they're a rude and unpleasant for example, then obviously not.
If you don't want to date them because they're a rude and unpleasant for example, then obviously not.
I don't like the idea of people being rejected on the basis of innate characteristics they can't really change, but even more than that, I don't like the idea of people feeling pressured into a relationship that they have no 'valid' reason to say no to. In my eyes, anyone should be able to romantically reject anyone else for any reason with no repercussions, because no one should ever be in a relationship in which they don't feel 100% comfortable. Everyone should have perfect, unhampered, unpressurised choice about whether or not to be in any given relationship.
(edited 6 years ago)
By the logic of some posters here a homosexual man would be sexist for refusing to date a woman, a twenty-something woman would be ageist for refusing to date an elderly man, a militant atheist would be Islamophobic and anti-semitic for refusing to date Moslems and Jews, and a trans would be transphobic for refusing to date another trans who appeared to be of the sex they were not attracted to.
The regressive-liberal SJW, meanwhile, would be worthy of sanctification for trying to force relationships between these people.
Do these people not look logically at their own arguments at any stage? Or does living in a bubble of self-justified piety blind them to commonsense?
The regressive-liberal SJW, meanwhile, would be worthy of sanctification for trying to force relationships between these people.
Do these people not look logically at their own arguments at any stage? Or does living in a bubble of self-justified piety blind them to commonsense?
Original post by anosmianAcrimony
I don't like the idea of people being rejected on the basis of innate characteristics they can't really change, but even more than that, I don't like the idea of people feeling pressured into a relationship that they have no 'valid' reason to say no to. In my eyes, anyone should be able to romantically reject anyone else for any reason with no repercussions, because no one should ever be in a relationship in which they don't feel 100% comfortable. Everyone should have perfect, unhampered, unpressurised choice about whether or not to be in any given relationship.
Of course, and I wouldn't advocate such a relationship. If someone doesn't believe transwomen are real women (or transmen are real men), dating would be miserable for both. Doesn't change that their reason for not dating is transphobic though.
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