To all those worried that they recieved 1 tv licence warning...
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Original post by pugnacitas
If they were given access by ISPs it would be very easy and accurate to catch people watching online without a license. All they'd have to do is write a program that checked every ISP account log for iplayer/tvcatchup/etc and check if the registered address has a license.
Not worth their time, I expect; it'd open up a legal can of worms too. Moreover, I'm not sure if being connected to a wifi connection counts as 'installing' a receiver - I doubt the matter has ever been tested in court - so one could say it was viewed on a laptop powered by internal batteries.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Because they knock on the door and someone lets them in.
If you don't have a TV, don't let anyone in. If you have a chain on the door and the guy says he's the TV licence man, just say I don't have a TV thank you, and shut the door on him. He doesn't have any powers to break in, HOWEVER if you are watching TV at the time and he can see this through a window then all he needs is to take a photograph as evidence.
Basically nothing happens in terms of court etc unless a TV licence man has been inside your house or got a photo through the window. If they do get that though, you will end up taken to court. It happened to a lad at uni, although in the end he never actually paid, he just ignored the bailiff letters and moved out at the end of the year and disappeared. However in the long run that is a dangerous strategy as he will have a County Court judgement against his name and when he starts working they can apply for an attachment of earnings order.
Best rule if you are licence dodging is just don't open the door, and keep the curtains closed if the licence man is around.
If you don't have a TV, don't let anyone in. If you have a chain on the door and the guy says he's the TV licence man, just say I don't have a TV thank you, and shut the door on him. He doesn't have any powers to break in, HOWEVER if you are watching TV at the time and he can see this through a window then all he needs is to take a photograph as evidence.
Basically nothing happens in terms of court etc unless a TV licence man has been inside your house or got a photo through the window. If they do get that though, you will end up taken to court. It happened to a lad at uni, although in the end he never actually paid, he just ignored the bailiff letters and moved out at the end of the year and disappeared. However in the long run that is a dangerous strategy as he will have a County Court judgement against his name and when he starts working they can apply for an attachment of earnings order.
Best rule if you are licence dodging is just don't open the door, and keep the curtains closed if the licence man is around.
If they have a warrant to search the property, you should really let them in otherwise they can just go to the police.
Just fill in the online form saying you don't need one. When you do they say they'll send a letter telling you what happens next. Two months later I'm still waiting for this letter
Original post by SirMasterKey
If they have a warrant to search the property, you should really let them in otherwise they can just go to the police.
To apply for a warrant they have to go through the courts, and they have to supply evidence that you are watching TV (eg a photo through a window). It is a nuisance getting these warrants. It's the same with bailiffs, even if they come accompanied by a police officer, all the officer is allowed to do is make sure you don't assault them, if you refuse them entry to your property then the police can't enforce it unless they have a warrant granted by the courts.
If anybody tries the line of "we are entitled to search your property" ask them to post a copy of a warrant through your letterbox first. I bet you anything they won't have one.
Original post by L i b
Original post by L i b
Not worth their time, I expect; it'd open up a legal can of worms too. Moreover, I'm not sure if being connected to a wifi connection counts as 'installing' a receiver - I doubt the matter has ever been tested in court - so one could say it was viewed on a laptop powered by internal batteries.
Quite. It's undoubtedly easier for them to spend their time preying on the elderly and other vulnerable people.
Original post by Cicerao
This = complete crap, lol!
Why's that? I've conducted a similar experiment with £40 worth of kit in my bedroom. When you're paying £1000s for a white van, I'm sure you can afford a couple of hundred quid extra for some better kit to pick up on the sets. Even the government dabble in it - TEMPEST.
Original post by JohnC2211
That's not entirely true sir. Even if you fill out that form they sometimes and often do send letters to the effect of "We're sending around Enforcement Officers to check this blah blah blah."
Yes, if you read the noTV page, it says that they'll send somebody round to check, then you'll receive a letter confirming you don't need a licence but reminding you to buy a licence in future if you ever need one. I've lived at 3 different addresses, done this, and had no letters, threats, people at my door or w.e. since.
Original post by L i b
Of course they will. Even if you let them 'inspect' your property, they simply start up the process again next year.
Well with it being rented accommodation, they don't know if there are new tennants or not. Seems quite fair to me: you cooperate by saying you don't need a licence, they check, send you a letter to confirm this and remind you that if you do need one in future you should buy one, then they leave you alone for the year.
Original post by DarkWhite
Why's that? I've conducted a similar experiment with £40 worth of kit in my bedroom. When you're paying £1000s for a white van, I'm sure you can afford a couple of hundred quid extra for some better kit to pick up on the sets. Even the government dabble in it - TEMPEST.
Whether they have the technology to detect a TV or not, they sure as hell don't drive round in vans knowing that you have a TV in your front room and that you're watching Columbo, or whatever the perception is that they can do. Not to mention that the vans you see going to people's houses are just a normal van (or sometimes even cars) with a list of people's addresses and some propaganda leaflets.
Propaganda:
(Doctor Who style, highly accurate detectors operated by a professional-looking gentleman.)
Reality:
(A bloke driving round in a normal van eating McDonalds and reading porno, with a useless aerial on top of the van to scare people. They do have those white vans, but who's seen one? Very few people. Example of lulzy intimidation tactics relying on people's fear to work - GPS basically being a satnav. I doubt they actually have any equpment inside.)
The only way they are gonna know you have a TV that you use to receive live broadcasts is if they see it through the window or you confess to having one. They can "detect a TV" from their vans (lol) because you have a huge aerial on the house, satellite dish, they see the light from it in the evening etc.
Here's part 1/5 of one of their "non-intrusive" visits.
They can **** right off tbh, because what right do they have to enter someone's home and snoop round? (Without a police warrant it's no right, btw.)
tl;dr **** the TV Licence and negged for supporting harassment.
(edited 13 years ago)
I have a housemate who has a TV.
There's nothing I can do about all of these intimidating letters because I believe I am liable, even though I don't watch live TV. I'm guessing that because he has a TV, and it's in the same household I live, that I could get done for it?
Just have to make sure that they never come in.
If they do catch him, he's paying the fine on his own.
There's nothing I can do about all of these intimidating letters because I believe I am liable, even though I don't watch live TV. I'm guessing that because he has a TV, and it's in the same household I live, that I could get done for it?
Just have to make sure that they never come in.
If they do catch him, he's paying the fine on his own.
Original post by lightburns
I have a housemate who has a TV.
There's nothing I can do about all of these intimidating letters because I believe I am liable, even though I don't watch live TV. I'm guessing that because he has a TV, and it's in the same household I live, that I could get done for it?
Just have to make sure that they never come in.
If they do catch him, he's paying the fine on his own.
There's nothing I can do about all of these intimidating letters because I believe I am liable, even though I don't watch live TV. I'm guessing that because he has a TV, and it's in the same household I live, that I could get done for it?
Just have to make sure that they never come in.
If they do catch him, he's paying the fine on his own.
He has a TV, but does he use to actually watch TV or is it just for games consoles, DVDs, etc?
If he actually is watching it, then yes I think everyone in the house is jointly liable for having a TV licence. But that's better than how it works in university accomodation where each room needs a licence.
Original post by Psyk
He has a TV, but does he use to actually watch TV or is it just for games consoles, DVDs, etc?
If he actually is watching it, then yes I think everyone in the house is jointly liable for having a TV licence. But that's better than how it works in university accomodation where each room needs a licence.
If he actually is watching it, then yes I think everyone in the house is jointly liable for having a TV licence. But that's better than how it works in university accomodation where each room needs a licence.
This is one of those deiberately confusing things TV Licensing does to trick people.
If theres no locks on the bedroom doors its classified as 1 household therefore 1 license is needed for the entire house.
If there is locks on the doors then its one per "household" but even then its only if you have a shared contract, so if you had seperate contracts but no locks you need a license
The whole situation is crazy and confusing and there to be greedy as the amount of properties I have lived where people would be happy to share a license but get told they need one each its crazy!
Original post by Reue
(Left after they tried to inspect)
I wonder if they can just summon 'Legal Occupier' to court anyway...
(Left after they tried to inspect)
I wonder if they can just summon 'Legal Occupier' to court anyway...
I remember getting one letter a long time ago but I just ignored it.
Original post by drbluebox
Except that watching Iplayer is allowed without a license so there would be no way to check if they were watching live streaming or just Iplayer.
**** I'm dumb. I should really know this, when Im doing a networking course, but I guess I was sleepy last night. The BBC could contact your ISP(with a warrant), to check on what you are browsing. They can quite easily see if you are watching tvcatchup/iplayer by having a look at your packets to and fro.
This opens a can of worms, as they are invading your privacy ie: checking other sites as well, your laptops could be said to be a portable battery operated device, hence exempt from the license fee. There's also the chance that your IP has been cloned by someone who wanted to spoof their IP for more serious crimes, though I doubt the BBC license fee is the thing to worry about then!
Original post by drbluebox
This is one of those deiberately confusing things TV Licensing does to trick people.
If theres no locks on the bedroom doors its classified as 1 household therefore 1 license is needed for the entire house.
If there is locks on the doors then its one per "household" but even then its only if you have a shared contract, so if you had seperate contracts but no locks you need a license
The whole situation is crazy and confusing and there to be greedy as the amount of properties I have lived where people would be happy to share a license but get told they need one each its crazy!
If theres no locks on the bedroom doors its classified as 1 household therefore 1 license is needed for the entire house.
If there is locks on the doors then its one per "household" but even then its only if you have a shared contract, so if you had seperate contracts but no locks you need a license
The whole situation is crazy and confusing and there to be greedy as the amount of properties I have lived where people would be happy to share a license but get told they need one each its crazy!
I think the locks thing is a bit of a red herring. I think it depends on the type of contract. If it's shared, it's one home, therefore one licence. If it's individual contracts for a particular room, each one is a separate home therefore each one needs a licence.
In the last place I lived I'm not sure if I would have needed a licence of my own if I watched TV. I had a separate contract to my housemates, but my contract didn't specify a particular room that was mine. So I don't know if it counted a separate home or not. Not that it mattered, I couldn't have watched TV even if I wanted to, couldn't get a signal at all.
Original post by Psyk
I think the locks thing is a bit of a red herring. I think it depends on the type of contract. If it's shared, it's one home, therefore one licence. If it's individual contracts for a particular room, each one is a separate home therefore each one needs a licence.
In the last place I lived I'm not sure if I would have needed a licence of my own if I watched TV. I had a separate contract to my housemates, but my contract didn't specify a particular room that was mine. So I don't know if it counted a separate home or not. Not that it mattered, I couldn't have watched TV even if I wanted to, couldn't get a signal at all.
In the last place I lived I'm not sure if I would have needed a licence of my own if I watched TV. I had a separate contract to my housemates, but my contract didn't specify a particular room that was mine. So I don't know if it counted a separate home or not. Not that it mattered, I couldn't have watched TV even if I wanted to, couldn't get a signal at all.
That is why I had that argument with my housemate last year, she had a license for the house, not for her room and still claimed that the detector vans could detect which room the tv was on down to the very corner of room it was on so if they detected a signal they would charge us all unless they only found a tv in her room.
Didnt matter that my tv didnt have a aerial socket as was a plasma monitor either she said it was still a tv therefore needed a licence, didnt matter that after I moved out she put a widescreen tv in the living room where mine used to be and she had no issue then!
There was that massive thing on here about 2-3 years ago where there was a story of a licence man going round a large halls of residence of like 100 rooms or more and not a single person in the block could get a signal, but he didnt even go in their rooms and said he saw their tv's through open doors therefore they were all breaking the law, he got a huge amount of people to buy a license by scare tactics then when people found out they didnt need one and were lied to the tv license people refused to refund and just said they could transfer license to new address.
I lived in 2 sets of halls in different towns and they said that only the kitchen/living room area was licensed and we needed one each for our rooms.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by JKGB
Apparently if they do pester you and want to visit you can write to them withdrawing their right of access, they then have to get a warrant to search your room, if they do turn up without a warrant you can then take them to court for harassment. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it really worth it to pay £30 to take them to court though? -especially if you aren't paying your license fee that is!
Original post by Psyk
He has a TV, but does he use to actually watch TV or is it just for games consoles, DVDs, etc?
If he actually is watching it, then yes I think everyone in the house is jointly liable for having a TV licence. But that's better than how it works in university accomodation where each room needs a licence.
If he actually is watching it, then yes I think everyone in the house is jointly liable for having a TV licence. But that's better than how it works in university accomodation where each room needs a licence.
Yes, he has watched TV on it. So I am liable. Apparently, I need a TV licence even if I don't watch live TV
That's like how I should be paying council tax, and I'm not. Students don't have to pay council tax - but it's done by household. As a non-student has just taken a room, I should technically be paying.
Stupid rules.
Original post by DarkWhite
Well, it's hardly difficult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking#CRTs
If they've refused to give evidence of their workings in court until now then that's fine, but it's certainly possible and far from difficult or costly in 2011.
If they've refused to give evidence of their workings in court until now then that's fine, but it's certainly possible and far from difficult or costly in 2011.
I'd be highly doubtful that would even be any use anyway other than remote farms and the like. EMI would render it nigh on useless in most places, and even if it could pick up a picture it's not going to be accurate enough to pinpoint an exact home. Even if it could, why be so secretive about it? The police use ANPR cameras to pick up uninsured/untaxed/un-MOT'd cars and they certainly don't try and hide that capability - what benefit does secrecy give you if you can detect someone breaking the law? Not to mention they'd probably be on pretty dicey ground with regard to privacy laws, as they wouldn't be discriminating between TV sets and computer monitors, which they have absolutely no right to be viewing.
My parents have had lots of problems with TV licensing. It was bad enough when they had licensed the house and still got the letters, but when TVL started sending them harassing letters to their address in China you can't help but think they've lost the plot.
Original post by James4d
It's ridiculous. Even if they come knocking to 'inspect' your house, you have the legal right to refuse them entry.
I remember a few years ago, my grandfather paid for his licence, and they still sent him these letters. ****ing ridiculous.
I remember a few years ago, my grandfather paid for his licence, and they still sent him these letters. ****ing ridiculous.
I remember having a shared license for our house and buying a second hand tv and getting threatening letters then when I rang they claimed it wasnt valid for me as my name wasnt on the license and I needed my own one and the woman was VERY stroppy with me over the phone and said she would send round officers etc.
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