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Mechanics help please, I am stuck with part d, too many unknowns?

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Reply 1
Original post by MaxStealth
960378A4-1212-4886-A703-7E9A7EB45E16.jpeg


Can you write down the horizontal, vertical and moment balance equations? If you've done b) and c), you should be able to?
Reply 2
I am stuck with part d, I’m not sure if I need to make a matrix from some equations, any help would be greatly appreciated
Reply 3
I replied to your other thread about the same question.

You have 3 equations (linearly independent) in four variables. There is one free degree of freedom. Part e) seems to relate this to a matrix/linear system of equations. For this part d), can you use some of the insights you've gained from b) and c) to help you?

In terms of planes etc, you have 3 intersecting 3D planes in 4D space. The intersection should be described by a line involving the 4 variables. Can you manipulate the horizontal, vertical, moment equilibrium equations to find express 3 of the variables in terms of one of them, hence getting the equation of a line?

Edit - where does the question come from and for your b), are you sure the moment is zero?
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by mqb2766
I replied to your other thread about the same question.

You have 3 equations (linearly independent) in four variables. There is one free degree of freedom. Part e) seems to relate this to a matrix/linear system of equations. For this part d), can you use some of the insights you've gained from b) and c) to help you?

In terms of planes etc, you have 3 intersecting 3D planes in 4D space. The intersection should be described by a line involving the 4 variables. Can you manipulate the horizontal, vertical, moment equilibrium equations to find express 3 of the variables in terms of one of them, hence getting the equation of a line?

Thank you for your explanation. I got an equation with 3 of the variables in (Fb1-Fc2-Fc1=0) I don’t understand how to solve for a set of possible solutions.
Reply 5
Original post by MaxStealth
Thank you for your explanation. I got an equation with 3 of the variables in (Fb1-Fc2-Fc1=0) I don’t understand how to solve for a set of possible solutions.


Can you show how you did it?
In general, there would be many solutions (points lying on the line) and you can't solve uniquely.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by mqb2766
Can you show how you did it?
In general, there would be many solutions (points lying on the line) and you can't solve uniquely.

image.jpgIt’s a bit messy but here’s my working for d
Reply 7
Original post by MaxStealth
image.jpgIt’s a bit messy but here’s my working for d


Err ... Simply don't understand it. Which are the horizontal, vertical and moments?
Also, did you see the comment about b). Why is the moment zero?
Reply 8
Yes, I wasn’t completely sure about b but isn’t that the only way for the forces to resolveimage.jpg
Reply 9
Original post by MaxStealth
Yes, I wasn’t completely sure about b but isn’t that the only way for the forces to resolveimage.jpg


I saw that, but why is the moment zero?
You have 3 conditions to satisfy (horizontal, vertical and moment) and you've only considered the first two.
Reply 10
Original post by mqb2766
I saw that, but why is the moment zero?
You have 3 conditions to satisfy (horizontal, vertical and moment) and you've only considered the first two.

I didn’t consider moment because they’re the only forces that can be used. The moment is zero because there’s no overall moment I think
Original post by MaxStealth
I didn’t consider moment because they’re the only forces that can be used. The moment is zero because there’s no overall moment I think

You have two forces acting at two different points. In general, the body will rotate.
Not sure what you mean by the overall moment.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 12
Original post by mqb2766
You have two forces acting at two different points. In general, the body will rotate.
Not sure what you mean by the overall moment.

I give up...
Thanks for your help
Original post by MaxStealth
I give up...


Pity!

As mqb2766 was hinting, for b), with those forces, the sum of the moments about any point isn't zero. Hence there is no way you can get those three forces in equilibrium, i.e. there is no solution - this would be clear if you'd completed d).

For d) there are two general methods for showing eqilibrium:

1) The one mqb2766 mentioned, sum of forces in two non-parallel directions and moments about one point, all being zero.

2) The sum of the moments about any three non-collinear points, all being zero.

So, either way you only need three equations, rather than the five you've ended up with. With all five, you'll find that two are linearly dependent on the other three.

Solving these as far as possible would give you the equation of a line, where each variable can be expressed in terms of just one other.

If you're not familiar with using matrices, just try eliminating variables, as per standard simultaneous equations, until you get something like 3FC1+2FC2=303F_{C1}+2F_{C2}=-30, then you can express FC1F_{C1} in terms of FC2F_{C2}, and back substitute until you can express everything in terms of FC2F_{C2}. Can't guarantee the values there as I only did it roughtly and it doesn't need to be those actual variables.
(edited 4 years ago)

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