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Why do the worst students become teachers ?

fundamentally

15

Just wondering, why is it that the not-too-bright are the ones who become teachers ?

Reply 1

Howard

5

fundamentally

Just wondering, why is it that the not-too-bright are the ones who become teachers ?

As I said earlier, "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach" Has ever been the case.

Reply 2

rishman

13

not always, I believe many public schools have a large number of oxbridge graduates as teachers....surely they must be considered reasonably bright!

Reply 3

fundamentally

OP

15

rishman

not always, I believe many public schools have a large number of oxbridge graduates as teachers....surely they must be considered reasonably bright!

Probably the ones with 2.ii's.
Having a 2.2, makes you unemployable except as a teacher.

Reply 4

Howard

5

rishman

not always, I believe many public schools have a large number of oxbridge graduates as teachers....surely they must be considered reasonably bright!

Being academically bright won't always put food on the table. In fact, on its own it's fairly worthless.

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fundamentally

Probably the ones with 2.ii's.
Having a 2.2, makes you unemployable except as a teacher.

B0llocks! A 2:2 is a decent degree.

Reply 5

rishman

13

interesting although do you not think to some extent teaching is vocational? I know not to everyone but certainly to some people, and i know what you are saying but I imagine there are some fanastic teachers out there......My only ever oxbridge teacher got a 2:1 from cambs for biology, and had several different, some higher paying jobs before teaching but in the end the job satisfaction outweighed the monetary incentive of other jobs (reinforcing the vocational idea?).......I know what you all are saying as there are some terrible ones out there but i also feel that it is not always the case

Reply 6

Howard

5

rishman

interesting although do you not think to some extent teaching is vocational? I know not to everyone but certainly to some people, and i know what you are saying but I imagine there are some fanastic teachers out there......My only ever oxbridge teacher got a 2:1 from cambs for biology, and had several different, some higher paying jobs before teaching but in the end the job satisfaction outweighed the monetary incentive of other jobs (reinforcing the vocational idea?).......I know what you all are saying as there are some terrible ones out there but i also feel that it is not always the case

Perhaps it is a vocational thing. Lots and lots of folks hit 40 for example and decide to quit being a succesful accountant and teach math instead "to give something back"

I think you have to enjoy doing it. Clearly nobody does it for the money.

Reply 7

rishman

13

and good holidays too lol!

One thing we have to remember is you don't perhaps have to be "bright" as such to be a good teacher and someone considered very bright may in fact not be a good teacher as teaching is about communication and the ability to implant ideas into other people heads and aid their understanding, there's no need to be einstein to do that and remember teachers help provide knowledge and that IMO is invaluable

Reply 8

Howard

5

rishman

One thing we have to remember is you don't perhaps have to be "bright" as such to be a good teacher and someone considered very bright may in fact not be a good teacher as teaching is about communication and the ability to implant ideas into other people heads and aid their understanding, there's no need to be einstein to do that and remember teachers help provide knowledge and that IMO is invaluable

I agree. You don't have to be particularly "bright" to do lots of things.

Reply 9

Steve Stifler

Howard

"Those that can, do; those that can't, teach"

And those that can't teach, teach PE/drama/careers studies etc etc

Reply 10

fundamentally

OP

15

TomInPortsmouth

And those that can't teach, teach PE/drama/careers studies etc etc

LOL !
You are right.
Our PE teacher used to try and fondle us.
Until someone kicked him in the balls and then reported him to the head.

Reply 11

santogold

15

It is indeed a shame that teachers have such a bad reputation in England. In countries that take their education much more seriously, e.g. Finland, teachers are respected highly in the society, receive good salaries and the teaching profession is seen as one of the best things there is.
Needless to say, in the UK, teachers' pay is a disgrace, the university education (for Primary Ed degrees, and the PGCE) is some sort of joke (I am NOT saying that it is an easy course, I am saying that it could be much much better- because honestly- teaching the student teachers a module of science, then a module of art, then english...is stupid. Let me come back to that in a second.), the amount of paperwork is outrageous and the teaching of a pre-set NC is turning teachers into parrots.

Now, while in Finland even the 'brightest' want to become teachers, they would be discouraged by society in the UK to do so.

The teacher training in the UK leaves much to be desired as well. Telling student teachers how to present the curriculum is hardly what makes them teachers. You will find that most of them think their university education has been a waste of time. Only the time at schools was useful to many.
Now, how come that in other countries, Germany for example, the university education is much more demanding?
Teachers used to go through 3-4 years at uni and then 2 years of training 'on the job'. Their academic profile is thus much higher. Also, in Germany, teachers need a 1.0-2.0 to actually get a job. That's a first. To teach in the best schools, and in primary schools, you need to graduate with a 1.0-1.3. Everything else will make it hard to get a job.
And to be accepted on a teaching course (which is made up of your subjects, i.e. English and Maths, which you study at high level and then you get a degree in teaching) you normally need good grades. Most universities now require a 2.0, which is like ABB/BBB.

Reply 12

santogold

15

rishman

interesting although do you not think to some extent teaching is vocational? I know not to everyone but certainly to some people, and i know what you are saying but I imagine there are some fanastic teachers out there......My only ever oxbridge teacher got a 2:1 from cambs for biology, and had several different, some higher paying jobs before teaching but in the end the job satisfaction outweighed the monetary incentive of other jobs (reinforcing the vocational idea?).......I know what you all are saying as there are some terrible ones out there but i also feel that it is not always the case

Teaching is academic and vocational at the same time. You need to know your subject before you can teach it. And you need to possess the ability to teach it, to actually achieve something.
Primary is less academic, more educational focus (maybe the vocational part), and 6th form is more academic and less educational focus. However, you need to be able to do both, no matter what level you teach at.
The knowledge of child psychology, psychology, educational theories and methodologies are extremely important.
This makes it partly academic and party vocational.

Reply 13

bikerx23

1

Howard

As I said earlier, "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach" Has ever been the case.

interesting...I heard:
"those who can - teach, those who can't - Teach P.E."

Reply 14

fundamentally

OP

15

yourjoyismylow

It is indeed a shame that teachers have such a bad reputation in England.

In the UK, teaching seems to be the domain of pedophiles, failures and C-grade students.

Perhaps there are some decent teachers in the private schools. However, only 6% of kids go to them. The rest of us are stuck with the gammas as teachers.

Reply 15

AT82

Certainly some of the people teaching ICT were extremely dumb. There is no way they could have a fighting chance in industry. However I think the fast majority of teachers just do it because they want to teach.

Reply 16

pghstochaj

11

Most IT teachers in my experience usually aren't IT "specialists". I don't understand why people seem to think that teachers get poor pay, they don't, especially given the recent golden handshakes and the fact that they work 2/3 of the year...

*comes from a family of teachers and headteachers*

Reply 17

hate_xams

1

There is a Biology teacher in my school who got a D in his A level Biology, and is now teaching it to A level classes, well i say teaching, he really hasn't got a clue.

Reply 18

santogold

15

fundamentally

In the UK, teaching seems to be the domain of pedophiles, failures and C-grade students.

Perhaps there are some decent teachers in the private schools. However, only 6% of kids go to them. The rest of us are stuck with the gammas as teachers.

Teachers in the UK are great. I have worked with a lot of them.
It is people like you who are responsible for the bad image.
Quite frankely, I feel very sorry for every teacher who has to teach you and people like you.

And just a few facts for your information:
In order to start teacher training and to get a job, a person will have to undergo a CRB check, a very detailled one. This is required by law for all people working with vulnarable people, like children and the elderly.
These checks are done on a regular basis, so noone who has a criminal record, is able to teach or even work as a teaching assistant. Least of all a pedophile.

The entry grades for ITT courses may be low, but that does not make the people failures or stupid. The courses are very very stressful and hard work. While your average student spends about 12 hours in lectures and seminars these days (plus self study, of course), students on Primary Ed courses need to attend a lot more lectures and seminars and labs than you could even imagine.
On top of that, they are on school placements a lot, teaching up to 80% of the curriculum at times. Getting up early in the morning, leaving school very late, planning lessons and keeping up with all the dumb paperwork.
I wanna see you do that. It is hard work.
A lot of people drop out of teaching courses, which means that only the best will be able to stay on.

I have done a teaching degree (albeit, not in the UK) and it is hard work. And I did it while having to work as well. So I find your comments very insulting.
Needless to say, some teachers turn into bitter, old people, who don't enjoy what they are doing, but do not generalize.

Reply 19

santogold

15

hate_xams

There is a Biology teacher in my school who got a D in his A level Biology, and is now teaching it to A level classes, well i say teaching, he really hasn't got a clue.

Did he qualify as a biology teacher or is he just teaching it cause noone else is?
Students should know that they have the right to express their concerns if they think a teacher is not good enough. Your school should then start a formal enquiry and observe the teacher.

Why do the worst students become teachers ?

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