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Why do the worst students become teachers ?

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Reply 20

kb500

B0llocks! A 2:2 is a decent degree.

I'm sorry to break it to you but it really isn't.

Reply 21

santogold

kb500

B0llocks! A 2:2 is a decent degree.

I'm sorry to break it to you but it really isn't.

I think a first and upper second are good. A 2.2 is only acceptable

Reply 22

Howard

kb500

B0llocks! A 2:2 is a decent degree.

I'm sorry to break it to you but it really isn't.

I'm sorry to break it to you but it's good enough.

And after a while it's irrelevant anyway. I don't remember the last time an employer asked me what class of degree I have. In fact my CV doesn't even mention it.

Reply 23

Ossie1701

fundamentally

In the UK, teaching seems to be the domain of pedophiles, failures and C-grade students.
Perhaps there are some decent teachers in the private schools. However, only 6% of kids go to them. The rest of us are stuck with the gammas as teachers.

I Really think that is slightly out of order - I have had a lot of teachers who have been ex-oxbridge / went to a decent university and were exceptionally dedicated - and were not paedophiles.

Reply 24

Platinum Mech

Excuse me if I'm wrong (sorry, I'm not knowledgeable about the teaching profession -- I just thought I'd contribute to this topic as I was passing by), but isn't teaching one of those professions where supply tends to be less than/only just meet demand? In which case, employers at less prestigious institutions are probably willing to take on prospective teachers who have a less positive attitude to the job and are much less intellectual/interested in the subject than many others, due to the lack of applicants -- hence the reason why they may be willing to take on those with poorer grades and qualifications (like, as previously mentioned, a D at A-level or a 2.2 Class degree).

But of course, I'm sure the view that teachers are inept at what they do will only apply to (surprise surprise!) those in the less successful institutions. The state secondary school/sixth form college I just left was one of the top few hundred in the country, with an GCSE A-C grade rate of over 70%, but I could certainly tell that the teachers there were extremely knowledgeable about their subject and provided a fantastic quality of teaching, despite lacking experience of staff from less reputable schools.

Reply 25

kb500

Howard

I'm sorry to break it to you but it really isn't.

I'm sorry to break it to you but it's good enough.

And after a while it's irrelevant anyway. I don't remember the last time an employer asked me what class of degree I have. In fact my CV doesn't even mention it.

To get into a good graduate level job then you need a 2:1, anything less on an application will be thrown in the bin and rightly so given the competition for jobs. With such a large proportion of students getting 1st/2:1's a 2:2 is almost looked upon as a badge of shame. It all depends on your ambition I suppose although I see no real point in going to univeristy if you are not going to obtain a worthwhile degree.

Reply 26

penfold

Teachers aren't perfect, and you're always going to get a few who really don't seem suited to the job, but I find the lack of respect here for teachers and the teaching profession really shocking. I always thought teachers going on about almost being afraid of their pupils was an exaggeration, but now I'm not so sure. Certainly the comments about pupils "monitoring" their teachers and reporting them if the student thinks they aren't doing a good enough job is are totally out of order. We need to remember who are the teachers and who are the students here and respect the fact that the teachers are the ones who ought to have authority and the students (who have all of, what, less than two decades of life experience?) do not.

Whatever you feel about the quality of teaching degrees (and I have no particular opinion, though I accept they probably have their flaws) most teachers do the job because they want to and I know I'm grateful to the teachers I had - the good ones certainly outweighed the not-so-good ones.

Reply 27

Platinum Mech

Certainly the comments about pupils "monitoring" their teachers and reporting them if the student thinks they aren't doing a good enough job is are totally out of order.

Certainly -- of course, pupils will always have their own opinion about how good the quality of teaching they receive is, but to report them for poor quality teaching is completely ridiculous. Like with all things in life, poor teachers (and perhaps even very poor teachers) are inevitable.

Reply 28

santogold

speranza

Certainly the comments about pupils "monitoring" their teachers and reporting them if the student thinks they aren't doing a good enough job is are totally out of order. We need to remember who are the teachers and who are the students here and respect the fact that the teachers are the ones who ought to have authority and the students (who have all of, what, less than two decades of life experience?) do not.

if you are refering to my comment, then no, it is not out of order. If a student really feels like the teacher is doing a bad job, they should have the right to mention it. Why am I saying this? Well, at my school, we used to have a teacher who was known for terrorizing students, calling them names, etc. I managed to score him as my Philosophy teacher and it was just out of control. I did not feel like listening to this guy telling us we are all useless and stupid. I talked to my personal tutor and we filed a complaint.

Reply 29

101mphfastball

And those that can't teach, teach PE/drama/careers studies etc etc

Hey dude, whats this bashing of Physical Ed teachers. The best teacher I ever met in my life taught Physical Ed, he was awesome with his students, he could teach any subject, and make it interesting it didn't matter what it was, the kids enjoyed his classes. I'd give anything to be half as good as this guy. Though he has 20 years on me.

Reply 30

fundamentally

yourjoyismylow

Teachers in the UK are great. I have worked with a lot of them....I have done a teaching degree (albeit, not in the UK)

A teacher saying that teachers are great !
Such objectivity....
Such mendacity...

yourjoyismylow

I think a first and upper second are good. A 2.2 is only acceptable

That is acceptable only if you want to be a teacher.
In the rest of the world, a 2.2 is a route to unemployment or working at Tesco.

There is a reason why a 2.2 is called a 'Drunkard's degree', 'Dunces degree' and a 'Desmond'.

Reply 31

q1w2e3r4t5y

My friend's Chemistry teacher is from Oxford :eek:

Apparantly he's a rubbish teacher, but I don't know.

Reply 32

fundamentally

Howard

B0llocks! A 2:2 is a decent degree....
I'd say my profession takes some beating for shittiness. I'm a Quantity Surveyor. It's crap.

Is that why you have ended up as a Quantity Surveyor, a job that you yourself describe as crap ? That is a common result of getting a 2.2. Crap jobs or no job at all.

Reply 33

fundamentally

speranza

I find the lack of respect here for teachers and the teaching profession really shocking. ...Certainly the comments about pupils "monitoring" their teachers and reporting them if the student thinks they aren't doing a good enough job is are totally out of order.

Respect has to be deserved and is not an absolute prerogative of the position. Would you respect a PE teacher who fondled your buttocks ?
This actually happened to me at school. I am ashamed to say that I was too frightened to report this.

speranza

Certainly the comments about pupils "monitoring" their teachers and reporting them if the student thinks they aren't doing a good enough job is are totally out of order.

If reporting incompetence would have led to action by the authorities, every teacher at my school would and should have been reported.

Instead, two teachers were reported to the police in my last year ( by the parents of other students ). One for sexual harassment ( our PE teacher, who progressed to putting his hands into panties ) and another for assault causing actual bodily harm ( A known-to-be-sadistic geography teacher twisted and broke a boy's thumb ).

They were both charged by the police.

Reply 34

Poica

A 2:2 is a perfectly respectable degree. Maybe not for the very top jobs, but certainly not unemployment or working at Tesco: if you think that then what about the great swathes of people with nothing more than GCSEs or A-levels?

As far as teaching is concerned, the problem is too few resources over too large an area. I have a friend who was once my teacher: he has a 1st from Birmingham Conservatoire in Music and became a teacher of music. After a little while, he was drafted onto do P.E. (he knows only what he does in his spare time) and Maths (Did an A-level in it at least 16 years ago). He is a highly intelligent man who is made to teach things he is not really qualified to teach because the resources are too tight. This is a problem with the system, not teachers.

Reply 35

Xanthe

Erm, I think you'll find that many teachers are of high academic calibre. My sister-in-law graduated with a 2:1 in Law before deciding to pursue a teaching career. She attended the prestigious Institute of Education to do her PGCE. Some people do it because they don't know what to do after they graduate and teaching looks like an attractive option because it's relatively easy to get in to. These people can then consider their options later. But I certainly wouldn't say the 'worse' students go in to teaching, if anything they attract some of the best students.

Reply 36

Dougie

AT82

Certainly some of the people teaching ICT were extremely dumb. There is no way they could have a fighting chance in industry. However I think the fast majority of teachers just do it because they want to teach.

And all the computing teachers at my school used Apple Macs at home!!! :confused:

Reply 37

fundamentally

Dougie

And all the computing teachers at my school used Apple Macs at home!!! :confused:

Funny !
And how could they teach you about Windows or Linux if they were only familiar with Macs ?

I bet that many of the students knew more about computing than the teachers.

Reply 38

El Scotto

rishman

not always, I believe many public schools have a large number of oxbridge graduates as teachers....surely they must be considered reasonably bright!

agree with that fully...

The few good ones, who actually choose teaching as a career end up in public/private schools.

State schools are full of the failures, because lets face it, if they were really any good at what they were teaching.... they'd be doing it, and getting more money for it!

Reply 39

JennLlama

fundamentally

Funny !
And how could they teach you about Windows or Linux if they were only familiar with Macs ?

I bet that many of the students knew more about computing than the teachers.

To be fair, IT is a fairly recent development and has a pretty thriving industry associated with it, so there just aren't that many qualified people about who want to go into teaching! The IT teachers I've worked with though seemed very knowledgeable about the subject, and several of them had previously worked in industry but chosen to move to teaching as it was more fulfilling, etc. But anyway, the schools have to provide it as a subject, and so have to find people to teach it :rolleyes:

Personally, I think it's a waste of time and IT should just be incorporated into other subjects (e.g. encouraging pupils to word process essays, do design tech. work on computers) and Computing could be taught to those who actually care how computers work, etc. Though there would probably still be problems with a shortage of teachers...
Jenn xx