Abu Qatada deportation bid fails, again.
Scroll to see replies
Original post by anarchism101
Wouldn't matter. If you want to get rid of justice by trial then you can't have any complaints when you don't get one.
He can have a trial in Jordan. We shouldn't be spending vast sums on that waste of organs. Get him gone.
Original post by Harry Callahan
He can have a trial in Jordan. We shouldn't be spending vast sums on that waste of organs. Get him gone.
There's no question of Qatada being tried in this country for offences which are within Jordanian remit. The only inculpatory evidence against Qatada held by the Jordanians is a pair of confessions obtained under torture. If the courts in Jordan were able to convince HMG that this evidence would not be used in a trial, he may yet be deported. If the Jordanians were in possession of other evidence which would allow a prosecution, then he would have been escorted to the plane long ago.
The government are likely very aware of the legality of expelling him from the country. One of the reasons he hasn't been expelled is that his presence in the UK and the media frenzy surrounding it generates exploitable public hostility to the Human Rights Act and towards those who apply it (judges, ministers etc.).
Unfortunately, Qatada is what Lenin would describe as a 'useful idiot'.
Why is this such an issue? He isn't a British citizen, the state has all the powers it needs to remove him, regardless of what fate waits him elsewhere, HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE EXTRADITED OR HAVE COMMITED A CRIME.
When the state says that a non-citizen is no longer welcome, THEY CAN DEPORT HIM.
Stuff him on a plane with some border agents, land somewhere else willing to take him, and kick him the **** off the plane. PROBLEM SOLVED.
Sometimes this country is just daft.
When the state says that a non-citizen is no longer welcome, THEY CAN DEPORT HIM.
Stuff him on a plane with some border agents, land somewhere else willing to take him, and kick him the **** off the plane. PROBLEM SOLVED.
Sometimes this country is just daft.
Original post by British199
I agree with you 100% but unfortunately I doubt we will ever be able to deport him. 
Can we not just round them all up one night and get the RAF to fly them out and deal with the political fall out after?
Original post by Harry Callahan
He can have a trial in Jordan. We shouldn't be spending vast sums on that waste of organs. Get him gone.
He's already been tried in absentia in Jordan, and the case against him was fabricated evidence and torture confessions.
To extradite him we'd have to refute the ECHR, which would effectively make our signature on any international treaty worthless.
Original post by anarchism101
He's already been tried in absentia in Jordan, and the case against him was fabricated evidence and torture confessions.
To extradite him we'd have to refute the ECHR, which would effectively make our signature on any international treaty worthless.
To extradite him we'd have to refute the ECHR, which would effectively make our signature on any international treaty worthless.
Refuse the ECHR then. Let's remove ourselves from the EU and see the benefits of being autonomous and self-governing once again.
He's taking the absolute piss out of this country and its people and it's clowns like you who enable him to do it.
Original post by Harry Callahan
Refuse the ECHR then. Let's remove ourselves from the EU and see the benefits of being autonomous and self-governing once again.
So are you happy for all the countries we've signed other treaties with to refute those too?
He's taking the absolute piss out of this country and its people
By doing what? Trying to avoid being sent to his death?
Original post by anarchism101
So are you happy for all the countries we've signed other treaties with to refute those too?
By doing what? Trying to avoid being sent to his death?
By doing what? Trying to avoid being sent to his death?
No, by living in a £3m mansion funded by the state and receiving £500k in benefits per annum, and by going against our very way of life with his vitriol.
Couldn't care less if he'd be tortured - ship him off and be done with him.
Original post by Swist
The only inculpatory evidence against Qatada held by the Jordanians is a pair of confessions obtained under torture.
Source?
Original post by Swist
If the courts in Jordan were able to convince HMG that this evidence would not be used in a trial, he may yet be deported.
If the courts in Jordan were able to convince HMG that this evidence would not be used in a trial, he may yet be deported.
Jordan has already promised not to use the 'evidence' in trial, and they don't need to convince HMG, it's the courts that need 'convincing'.
Original post by Harry Callahan
No, by living in a £3m mansion funded by the state and receiving £500k in benefits per annum
What mansion? £3m is a (high) estimate of how much he's cost in total.
And seriously, what do you expect? He's been pretty much in court non-stop since 2002, been in prison half the time (including max security prisons) and he obviously can't get a job.
and by going against our very way of life with his vitriol.
You're now conflating two separate issues. The issue currently in court is over his extradition to Jordan, which would be there regardless of what he's done in the UK.
Secondly, his UK activities. Imagine that there was no extradition issue, but that everything he's done in the UK had still happened. Until he's charged, brought to trial and convicted, he can't be deported under British law, never mind European law or international law.
Original post by anarchism101
What mansion? £3m is a (high) estimate of how much he's cost in total.
And seriously, what do you expect? He's been pretty much in court non-stop since 2002, been in prison half the time (including max security prisons) and he obviously can't get a job.
You're now conflating two separate issues. The issue currently in court is over his extradition to Jordan, which would be there regardless of what he's done in the UK.
Secondly, his UK activities. Imagine that there was no extradition issue, but that everything he's done in the UK had still happened. Until he's charged, brought to trial and convicted, he can't be deported under British law, never mind European law or international law.
And seriously, what do you expect? He's been pretty much in court non-stop since 2002, been in prison half the time (including max security prisons) and he obviously can't get a job.
You're now conflating two separate issues. The issue currently in court is over his extradition to Jordan, which would be there regardless of what he's done in the UK.
Secondly, his UK activities. Imagine that there was no extradition issue, but that everything he's done in the UK had still happened. Until he's charged, brought to trial and convicted, he can't be deported under British law, never mind European law or international law.
I'm not wasting my time.
You know what?
I am sick and tired of the government targeting an individual who has committed no crimes here or elsewhere.
If he commits a crime then lock him up. Otherwise let him be (I do of course hate him but the dictates of objectivity...).
And what a waste of time over one individual.
I am sick and tired of the government targeting an individual who has committed no crimes here or elsewhere.
If he commits a crime then lock him up. Otherwise let him be (I do of course hate him but the dictates of objectivity...).
And what a waste of time over one individual.
Original post by Studentus-anonymous
Why is this such an issue? He isn't a British citizen, the state has all the powers it needs to remove him, regardless of what fate waits him elsewhere, HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE EXTRADITED OR HAVE COMMITED A CRIME.
When the state says that a non-citizen is no longer welcome, THEY CAN DEPORT HIM.
When the state says that a non-citizen is no longer welcome, THEY CAN DEPORT HIM.
Er, yes he does need to have committed a crime to be deported. The government can't just deport people because they want to.
The state hasn't said he's no longer welcome, the government has, there's a difference. The state includes the courts, and since he hasn't been brought to trial yet, he's innocent until proven guilty and can't be deported. Unless the government passes a deportation law pertaining only to Abu Qatada and no-one else, he can't be deported until convicted of a crime.
Original post by Harry Callahan
I don't have any reasoned arguments, I think that a personal whim should be good enough.
was what I read.
Abu Qatada = best troll ever.
Original post by anarchism101
was what I read.
Yawn.
Abu Qatada may be a horrible person he may he giving all muslims a bad name, he may be the worst person on the little rock that we all live on, but I can't believe that people want to break the international treaties we have signed, find a loophole in the laws that we have helped to establish internationally just for one person.
A person who has not been charged of anything in Britain, a person the evidence against whom in Jordan has by many peoples reckoning been obtained via torture( which you know kind of puts the legitimacy of the evidence into doubt never mind the whole torture issue), a person who does not really want to live here but does not want to go to Jordan to face a sham of a trial and I love how we can doubt claims of people when it suits us ( Iraq and WMDs come to mind) but then believe every word they say when we just want to get rid of an annoying problem such as international law
do you really believe the Jordanian government when it says it won't use the evidence even though it has very little other evidence, a person who we must PRESUME INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, a person who is being used by the Daily mail among others as a scapegoat for their anti benefits agenda ( I love how exaggerated the benefit claims are then people are like why doesn't he get a job, yes it would be such a fun application process wouldn't it, a person who the UK government is endlessly wasting tax payer money on out of the same pot that is paying for the "mansions" of Abu Qatada just to satisfy their ego show they are fighting "terrorism" after 2 failed wars, a person who we want to deport because we do not like him; do you guys really think governments should have that much power that just because some of Daily Mail readers whose votes the government want demand something illegal we should allow our leaders to break the law...
does this kind of not have alarm bells ringing in your head at what direction some people on this thread want the country to head towards. Do people not realize Abu Qatada is just a PAWN in numerous political/media games one of is by the government trying to exaggerate this to pander to the far right of the party gather support for leaving the EU thus allowing them to hold off UKIP .
WAKE UP! Of course this does not apply to everyone, many of you can probably see the stupidity of thinking the government should just deport this guy even though the courts have rejected the appeal. Cue the negs...
A person who has not been charged of anything in Britain, a person the evidence against whom in Jordan has by many peoples reckoning been obtained via torture( which you know kind of puts the legitimacy of the evidence into doubt never mind the whole torture issue), a person who does not really want to live here but does not want to go to Jordan to face a sham of a trial and I love how we can doubt claims of people when it suits us ( Iraq and WMDs come to mind) but then believe every word they say when we just want to get rid of an annoying problem such as international law
do you really believe the Jordanian government when it says it won't use the evidence even though it has very little other evidence, a person who we must PRESUME INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, a person who is being used by the Daily mail among others as a scapegoat for their anti benefits agenda ( I love how exaggerated the benefit claims are then people are like why doesn't he get a job, yes it would be such a fun application process wouldn't it, a person who the UK government is endlessly wasting tax payer money on out of the same pot that is paying for the "mansions" of Abu Qatada just to satisfy their ego show they are fighting "terrorism" after 2 failed wars, a person who we want to deport because we do not like him; do you guys really think governments should have that much power that just because some of Daily Mail readers whose votes the government want demand something illegal we should allow our leaders to break the law...
does this kind of not have alarm bells ringing in your head at what direction some people on this thread want the country to head towards. Do people not realize Abu Qatada is just a PAWN in numerous political/media games one of is by the government trying to exaggerate this to pander to the far right of the party gather support for leaving the EU thus allowing them to hold off UKIP .
WAKE UP! Of course this does not apply to everyone, many of you can probably see the stupidity of thinking the government should just deport this guy even though the courts have rejected the appeal. Cue the negs...
Original post by anarchism101
Er, yes he does need to have committed a crime to be deported. The government can't just deport people because they want to.
The state hasn't said he's no longer welcome, the government has, there's a difference. The state includes the courts, and since he hasn't been brought to trial yet, he's innocent until proven guilty and can't be deported. Unless the government passes a deportation law pertaining only to Abu Qatada and no-one else, he can't be deported until convicted of a crime.
The state hasn't said he's no longer welcome, the government has, there's a difference. The state includes the courts, and since he hasn't been brought to trial yet, he's innocent until proven guilty and can't be deported. Unless the government passes a deportation law pertaining only to Abu Qatada and no-one else, he can't be deported until convicted of a crime.
Erroneous, the state has full right (yes the government) to remove a non-citizen from it's territory as it sees fit. It's why asylum seekers and illegal immigrants are arrested and detained before expulsion, it is why an otherwise perfectly on the level foreign visitor can be expelled for overstaying a visa and the likes.
Just by virtue of being here without the state's permission and desire is a crime to an extent (immigration law, etc).
The state could remove Abu Qatada today if they wanted, but as someone said (and the apparent statement of his own family) there is clearly some desire to keep him around for whatever purpose. I don't buy into conspiracy theories as a rule so I won't try and guess as to if or why.
The UK has been quite friendly and soft on the application of it's rights to expel non-citizens, but it still possess that right.
(edited 11 years ago)
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- How to go from an A grade essay to an A* essay in edexcel politics?
- Politics essay analysis
- Abu Dhabi Island Call Girls 0505721407 Abu Dhabi Call Girls
- Abu Dhabi Call Girls 0525382202 Call Girls Abu Dhabi
- Verified 0502483006 Call Girls In Abu Dhabi, HI-FI Call girl Abu Dhabi
- Fasting 6 days of Shawwal : Reward of a year of fasting - Ends Sat 20th May 2023
- Best laptop(s) for uni?
- GCSE DIARy BLOG (bcz why not)
- Teacher killed in France school stabbing
- Man sentenced for 9 years after planning to assassinate the late queen in 2021
- World Capital City Ending Game
- Why does Britain need the Notting Hill Carnival?
- Hycia2000's Laptop recommendation thread
- What is a good laptop to buy for uni?
- Name a country or city with the last letter of the previous one
- ICE's "Eye of God" program
- Which School is better, Cranleigh Abu Dhabi or Brighton Abu Dhabi
- Uae,dubai,qatar +27845643968 dr.amanda abortion clinic
- Cambridge summer school
- Uni Exeter international students attendance warning
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 3 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 3 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
