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BNP: Ethically British?

4G_dollars

I consider myself to be English and British, but I can't, according to the logic of some. I am a person with no nationality.

But there are two different ways to be English or British, through nationality or ethnicity. The majority of British people would consider you English and British as a nationality and identity if you want it. However you're not English ethnically, and ethnicity is what people are arguing about in this thread. I doubt most of them put that much significance on ethnicity or would deny that your nationality and identity is English and British (like the BNP might). It's just that this thread is about ethnicity.

Reply 81

CombineHarvester

16

etnies

ethnically British = white
British by nationality = [input race]

Problem solved

What about those whose grandparents came from parts of Europe during the war? They're born in England as well as their parents but their grandparents may be from Poland and not even speak English.

Reply 82

az1992

9

Good Apollo

If you read my other posts in this thread, you'll find the link to a wikipedia article which explains British genetic ancestry in great detail.

I just want to point out that unless you can link that statistic to the website of an organisation that researches in genetics, it remains unreliable.

Although it has apparenly tighened security, it is still based on contributions and for all you know, some diehard National Front supporter who knows a little about science could have fabricated and written that.

i would find it hard to believe that after countless waves of immigration, not just in the 20th century but throughout British History, that the genes of these orignal hunters remains in 80% of us.

The name Griffin itself is the name of a mythical creature that has its origins in Persia.

Reply 83

nolongerhearthemusic

13

CombineHarvester

What about those whose grandparents came from parts of Europe during the war? They're born in England as well as their parents but their grandparents may be from Poland and not even speak English.

Their nationality would be British but their ethnicity would not.

Reply 84

username227498

16

Either way, we all descended from fish. Nick Griffin has a bit of evolution to catch up on, mind.

Reply 85

CombineHarvester

16

nolongerhearthemusic

Their nationality would be British but their ethnicity would not.

Yes, that was my point.

Reply 86

gm15

13

nolongerhearthemusic

Their nationality would be British but their ethnicity would not.

But what about me (according to your theory)...3 british/english grandparents 1 german grandparent?

Reply 87

nolongerhearthemusic

13

CombineHarvester

Yes, that was my point.

Oh yeah, just realised she'd put "white" as British. Though I think she means white British people? I dunno...

Reply 88

Good Apollo

az1992

I just want to point out that unless you can link that statistic to the website of an organisation that researches in genetics, it remains unreliable.

Although it has apparenly tighened security, it is still based on contributions and for all you know, some diehard National Front supporter who knows a little about science could have fabricated and written that.

i would find it hard to believe that after countless waves of immigration, not just in the 20th century but throughout British History, that the genes of these orignal hunters remains in 80% of us.

The name Griffin itself is the name of a mythical creature that has its origins in Persia.

Feel free to look in the "Citations" and "Further Reading" sections of that article if you'd like to determine whether it's been properly referenced or not. Likewise, posting your (justifed) concerns about whatever sources you believe to be inaccurate on the Talk page should be enough to get the article permanantly changed.

I find it rather strange that we would have retained 80% of our DNA when you look at the history of the British Isles I was taught in school, but there have been quite a few advances recently which have lead to different evidence about exactly how many different races have invaded England, and for how long. It's a really fascinating subject in and of itself (I think if I hadn't decided to become a scientist, I would have been a historian), and I hate it to be marred by all this talk of racism and politics.

Reply 89

SixthFormer08

Teaddict

This is interesting.

IF they have an opinion (that most disagree with) they should be rigorously challenged... Okay then, anyone who thinks black people born in Britain are British should be rigorously challenged as well?

No?

Though I believe citizenship is not a ethnic concept, I still find the anti-BNP bias hilarious, because it is often from the people who claim to love free speech, then condemn the BNP for using their right of free speech.

Ahh the confusion. You can have free speech if you don't say this... not very free is it?

Freedom of speech is never going to be completely "free", is it? Like it's not OK for someone to say "blacks are inferior", because that's hate-speech.

Reply 90

CombineHarvester

16

nolongerhearthemusic

Oh yeah, just realised she'd put "white" as British. Though I think she means white British people? I dunno...

I thought it was clumsy to label white=ethnically British. In fact, it's ridiculous. There's probably been Asian/Black people who have been here three generations and thus longer than many Polish people for example.

Reply 91

nolongerhearthemusic

13

gm15

But what about me (according to your theory)...3 british/english grandparents 1 german grandparent?

I dunno really, I'm in a similar position and tick "white British" on forms. It's a bit arbitrary really. I'd say that if you have an ethnicity in your recent ancestors (parents, grandparents and great grandparents?) you can claim that ethnicity as part of mixed ethnicity though it does get a bit silly when someone's claiming to be 1/16 something. Anyway, I'm not one of the people claiming that ethnicity is a big deal.

CombineHarvester

I thought it was clumsy to label white=ethnically British. In fact, it's ridiculous. There's probably been Asian/Black people who have been here three generations and thus longer than many Polish people for example.

Well yeah, it's factually wrong. I doubt that many ethnically French, German, Polish etc. people would like to be called ethnically British (and they aren't...)

Reply 92

etnies

9

CombineHarvester

What about those whose grandparents came from parts of Europe during the war? They're born in England as well as their parents but their grandparents may be from Poland and not even speak English.

I am afraid you misunderstood me. Of course being white does not automatically make you ethnically British , but it is an important factor. If you're not white -> you're not British by ethnicity (although you can be partly british but lets don't go deep in it)
I am white myself and I am nowhere near British :smile:

Reply 93

Winnieee

vroom9

They are allowed freedom of speech, by token others are free to criticize their views. It is worrying when being "anti-BNP" is a slur. The BNP are hardly for freedom of speech of their opponents; whenever you try to argue with them they use ad hominem attacks against you. Most news organisations do not want to be associated with, as what most people know they are, far right national socialists.

Critical Thinking FTW (Y)

Reply 94

Renner

19

Tetrahydro

I was talking about genetic difference, and genetics is what the BNP bases its idea of the "British race" on. It's a flawed idea because the English are very genetically different to the Scottish and Welsh. We are Germanic, they are Celtic. We are more closely related to the Dutch and Germans than to the Scottish and Welsh.

Source? Because as far as I’m aware and as other people have pointed out this is false. When invaders have come in the past they have come in small numbers, that is compared to the native population at the time. 80% of our DNA comes from those first people who came to the island from what is now known as Spain. The other 20% is a hodge podge and yes in northern Scotland may have more Scandinavian than southern England but that doesn’t detract from the fact that the peoples of the isle have more in common than many of them like to think.

Think of it this way; the Spanish, French, Germans and Italians are separate ethnic and cultural identities and they share land borders, we are an island, if anything our ethnic identity should be stronger than there’s.

Reply 95

Tetrahydro

Renner

Source? Because as far as I’m aware and as other people have pointed out this is false. When invaders have come in the past they have come in small numbers, that is compared to the native population at the time. 80% of our DNA comes from those first people who came to the island from what is now known as Spain. The other 20% is a hodge podge and yes in northern Scotland may have more Scandinavian than southern England but that doesn’t detract from the fact that the peoples of the isle have more in common than many of them like to think.

Think of it this way; the Spanish, French, Germans and Italians are separate ethnic and cultural identities and they share land borders, we are an island, if anything our ethnic identity should be stronger than there’s.

Well being an East Anglian native, one would expect that my DNA is >80% Anglo/Saxon, yet I'd still be considered ethnic British...

Reply 96

L i b

19

Tetrahydro

Well being an East Anglian native, one would expect that my DNA is >80% Anglo/Saxon

This one certainly wouldn't expect anything of the sort.

Reply 97

Inzamam99

16

DJ AgnieszkaA

so. he isnt ethnically british. you are only making a big deal out of it because bnp members said it. grow up.

Neither are you, you're actually originated from West Africa. ~~Dick~~ Nick Griffin reckons ethnically British= if your ancestors came to this country over 10,000 years ago. Now I may be mistaken but yours could've come 9000 years ago or 500 years ago or whatever. :fyi:

Reply 98

Tetrahydro

L i b

This one certainly wouldn't expect anything of the sort.

Why not? East Anglia wasn't inhabited by the Britons, and it was the first settlement of Germanic invaders. East Anglian men are said to have a much greater affinity with Frisian men in Holland and Germany than with men in the West country...

That's besides my point anyway. I was trying to say that not every English person is made up of mainly Brythonic stock, and therefore, not every English person is "indigenous".