Wealthy oxford students &quot;should pay £10,000&quot;

MadNatSci

What d'you sing? - alto or soprano?

If I'd read this thread before I'd have come to the concert... which choir are you in?

Alto, but not very well at all compared with the guys in the real Clare choir. This was CCMS chorus - a voluntary thing, but it was pretty damn big. I wanted to join Clare choir - it's one of the reasons I applied, but I didn't realise a)how good they are and b)how bad I am by comparison.

Reply 42

MadNatSci

12

Helenia

Alto, but not very well at all compared with the guys in the real Clare choir. This was CCMS chorus - a voluntary thing, but it was pretty damn big. I wanted to join Clare choir - it's one of the reasons I applied, but I didn't realise a)how good they are and b)how bad I am by comparison.

Yay, altos rule :biggrin:

Sometimes bigger choruses are more fun. You couldn't do the BIG choral works with a chapel choir... Well, you could I suppose but it wouldn't be half as noisy and fun :biggrin:

Yeah, Clare choir were about the only reason I didn't apply there - far too good for me and I wouldn't have coped with the workload if I couldn't sing...

Reply 43

Radagasty

Helenia

It was Süßmayr. I've never heard the Druce one, so I don't know if I like it. It was magical though; I've wanted to sing it for about 8 years but never got the chance in my school choir, last night was so powerful it was fantastic! Exhausting though, but worth it.

Hmm... the choir I'm in performs this work fairly regularly, every three or four years, generally. I myself have done it twice, both times the Druce completion. It's quite fun to sing, (though I suppose it does not do to say so, as it is a missa pro defunctis, after all). The most exhausting works we've sung would have to be Messiah and Bach's Weihnachtsoratorium, I'd say. We sang the latter in English, though, and I would love to sing it in German one day.

Reply 44

Radagasty

The most exhausting works we've sung would have to be Messiah and Bach's Weihnachtsoratorium, I'd say. We sang the latter in English, though, and I would love to sing it in German one day.

I've done Messiah and it's tiring but I didn't find it as intense as the Requiem, as there are plenty of arias and recitatives where you can sit down, whereas there are only really 2½ in the Requiem and the rest of the time you're singing full pelt.

Reply 45

I dont think rich people should pay more - the fact that they are rich (in most cases) is because they have worked their asses off and earnt their fortune. Rich people pay more tax so ...

Reply 46

DC_1234

adelz

I dont think rich people should pay more - the fact that they are rich (in most cases) is because they have worked their asses off and earnt their fortune. Rich people pay more tax so ...

Um... right.

Do you also believe the unemployed are simply too lazy to get a job or is at least soime of your understanding of the real life circumstances that lie behind the economics of poersonal finance hailing from a source more recent than the 'laissez faire' liberalism of the 1910s?

Reply 47

happysunshine

8

adelz

I dont think rich people should pay more - the fact that they are rich (in most cases) is because they have worked their asses off and earnt their fortune. Rich people pay more tax so ...

Or inherited loads of money or been lucky enough to have a great education. Depends which way you look at it.

Reply 48

DC_1234

happysunshine

Or inherited loads of money or been lucky enough to have a great education. Depends which way you look at it.

Or simply been lucky period and had some of their more risky investments pay off, or been given opportunities that some others didn't have, or ( in a minority of cases ) been involved in arms deals or had trading links with Nazi Germany... the list is endless and in a nut shell it is an unfair generalisation to say that 'those who are wealthy ( and from this I assume we are talking say 100K+ ) are where they are because of hard work'.

It would actually be fairer to say that they are where they are because of strong nerves and intelligence. The man who drives the bus works his ass off for shit money, but he isn't making anything like a successful stock broker makes in three hours because he doesn't have; 1: The contacts to get the gig, 2: the credentials to get the gig, 3: Most likely the nerve that is required for most high pay off endeavours. 4: The skill/acumen required to get the credentials and do the job well. It doesn't mean he doesn't work hard or is undeserving of your respect and courtesy

Reply 49

MadNatSci

12

Helenia

I've done Messiah and it's tiring but I didn't find it as intense as the Requiem, as there are plenty of arias and recitatives where you can sit down, whereas there are only really 2½ in the Requiem and the rest of the time you're singing full pelt.

Mozart's Requiem has more raw emotion in the choruses too, whereas the choruses in Messiah are usually more of a fun, happy belt-out kind. I find emotions tiring (though I much prefer emotional music). Although Messiah's so long it did knacker me out...

What's CCMS doing next then?

Reply 50

Faboba

Um... right.

Do you also believe the unemployed are simply too lazy to get a job or is at least soime of your understanding of the real life circumstances that lie behind the economics of poersonal finance hailing from a source more recent than the 'laissez faire' liberalism of the 1910s?

and so what ? A lot of the unemployed are unemployed as they have no degree, little schooling. Thats their own fault in most cases. You cant expect someone rich to pay extra so someone poorer can go to uni, just because they have more money. Its unfair.

Reply 51

Radagasty

Helenia

Alto, but not very well at all compared with the guys in the real Clare choir. This was CCMS chorus - a voluntary thing, but it was pretty damn big.

How many choristers are there? Big does have its virtues, but small is often easier to manage.

Reply 52

Radagasty

How many choristers are there? Big does have its virtues, but small is often easier to manage.

Clare choir proper has 31, which is big for a chapel choir, especially considering the size of our chapel (there were some snide comments in Varsity/TCS - can't remember - about that). In the chorus I'd guess there were about 70, but we only got together for that one concert (and rehearsals in the weeks before of course).

MadNatSci - CCMS are always having lunchtime recitals etc, but I'm not really sure what their next big concert will be - probably something next term.

Reply 53

androidkiller

adelz

and so what ? A lot of the unemployed are unemployed as they have no degree, little schooling. Thats their own fault in most cases. You cant expect someone rich to pay extra so someone poorer can go to uni, just because they have more money. Its unfair.

So people with poor parents should be denied a university education because of their parents' low income? Isn't that more unfair than making those who can afford it pay a little extra? It just causes a self- perpetuating loop; children from poor families can't afford to go to uni and get a good education, so they end up poor themselves, even if they are intelligent enough to go. So their children can't go to uni ...

I know that's simplifying it a bit, but still, I think my point is valid. And while we're on the subject of funding, why are mortgages, other children etc. not taken into account for level of parental support?

Reply 54

happysunshine

8

androidkiller

So people with poor parents should be denied a university education because of their parents' low income? Isn't that more unfair than making those who can afford it pay a little extra? It just causes a self- perpetuating loop; children from poor families can't afford to go to uni and get a good education, so they end up poor themselves, even if they are intelligent enough to go. So their children can't go to uni ...

I know that's simplifying it a bit, but still, I think my point is valid. And while we're on the subject of funding, why are mortgages, other children etc. not taken into account for level of parental support?

I agree with you to an extent but then I think well there are literally thousands of courses on offer so parents can get the education they never had which wasn't really a fair one like ours today.

Reply 55

androidkiller

So people with poor parents should be denied a university education because of their parents' low income? Isn't that more unfair than making those who can afford it pay a little extra? It just causes a self- perpetuating loop; children from poor families can't afford to go to uni and get a good education, so they end up poor themselves, even if they are intelligent enough to go. So their children can't go to uni ...

I know that's simplifying it a bit, but still, I think my point is valid. And while we're on the subject of funding, why are mortgages, other children etc. not taken into account for level of parental support?

I just dont think its fair that richer people pay extra. Its not a matter of whether they can afford it, its amatter of fairness. Yes, it would be very kind of them if they wanted to, but it has to be their choice. They pay way more in tax , as tax is proportional to income, so they do, in reality, pay more for their education. The Govt should be the one to help children from poorer families get an education with more rigid special access schemes and extra financial help.
If we were to apply the logic of richer people paying more, then whats the motivation to work harder and strive to be the best in your life, in order to become rich, if all it brings about is extra bills and in the end you have as much money as someone who is much poorer and because due to his or her income (as it isnt so hhigh), he or she doesnt have to pay the extra. What I said was a bit extreme but you understand the point im trying to make/

Reply 56

davey_boy

9

adelz

I just dont think its fair that richer people pay extra. Its not a matter of whether they can afford it, its amatter of fairness. Yes, it would be very kind of them if they wanted to, but it has to be their choice. They pay way more in tax , as tax is proportional to income, so they do, in reality, pay more for their education. The Govt should be the one to help children from poorer families get an education with more rigid special access schemes and extra financial help.
If we were to apply the logic of richer people paying more, then whats the motivation to work harder and strive to be the best in your life, in order to become rich, if all it brings about is extra bills and in the end you have as much money as someone who is much poorer and because due to his or her income (as it isnt so hhigh), he or she doesnt have to pay the extra. What I said was a bit extreme but you understand the point im trying to make/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3485939.stm
Interesting idea from Russia. Obviously there are flaws e.g. it assumes everyone has the same access to quality schooling but I personally think there could be something to it....

Reply 57

davey_boy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3485939.stm
Interesting idea from Russia. Obviously there are flaws e.g. it assumes everyone has the same access to quality schooling but I personally think there could be something to it....

yep, that is a good system. Its being used in Bulgaria, where Im from, and seems very successful (I wouldnt know in detail as I dont live there).
Though I do agree with the fact that not all people need maths and a language, though I think everyone must need it to a certain level - so maybe there should a be a mini-maths / lang compulsory test if you dont take the subject - not so hard, but to prove you have the ability and a normal maths / lang if you do take the subject.. .I dont know .. sometning like that..
I like the fact that its hard to get 100 points - and that people are given POINTS not grades within grade boundaries - it clearly defines peoples abilities.....
Though personally I think that, even though the British system may have its flaws that need fixing, overall British education is reputed to be the best in the world. You are marked on what you know, how to analyse and how to tackle problems. On the American system for example, in the SAT you are penalized for what you dont know - I dont think thats good ... and its multiple choice - I dont like that either because its not testing your concrete knowledge but its ... giving you a choice - and one of the choices may just spark something in your brain and remind you of it - something that wouldnth ave happened if you had to write an essay or something .. Well, thats my humple sort of opinion :P

Reply 58

Radagasty

Helenia

Clare choir proper has 31, which is big for a chapel choir, especially considering the size of our chapel (there were some snide comments in Varsity/TCS - can't remember - about that). In the chorus I'd guess there were about 70, but we only got together for that one concert (and rehearsals in the weeks before of course).

Wow! I'm quite amazed that you could find 70 singers in a college of several hundred. There are 30,000 students here, and the university choir has about 100 members... speaking of which, I'm going to have to re-audition next Wednesday. I hope I pass muster again. We're going to be doing Orff's Carmina Burana and Vaughan William's Mass in G Minor. Are you familiar with the latter? I've don't think I've ever heard it before, so I'm going to head into the city tomorrow or the day after to get a recording of it.

Reply 59