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Reply 60
Original post by Jacob :)
The massacres of the Mongols exist only in history books and art. The holocaust has photos, film, first hand accounts of survivors in multiple media forms some of which are very emotive (looking at you Anne Frank) and on the whole far more relatable than acts from centuries ago. Plus the Holicaust is gold dust for Hollywood so that will always fuel public interest.

I don't like to use the word evil either. Saying the Nazis did what they did just because they are evil stops you exploring the deeper reasons and the real motives of the Holocaust. Not that anyone's completely sure what they were and I doubt anyone every will.


It is, of course, a very un-historical word, which, as you say, can be actively unhelpful. It's the best fit I could think of to explain why so many people are fascinated by Nazi acts, though.
Reply 61
Original post by Habsburg
I also feel that there is something deeply pervasive about the evil (though I hesitate to use that word) of the Nazis, especially characters like Mengele, that continues to fascinate people. I can't quite put my finger on it though. For that reason, though I have actually wondered myself whether the crimes of Hitler would one day be considered somewhat akin to the crimes of Ghengis Khan, I don't think it will ever truly lose its emotional cachet.


I think part of the reason the Third Reich has burned itself into our psyche so much is becuase of the hatred at the centre of its ideology, which led it to start a destructive war of conquest that led Europe into moral, physical and cultural ruin. The lessons of the Third Reich exert a universal appeal, the consequences of its murderous racism stands as a warning to the whole of humanity.
Reply 62
Original post by Clessus
I think part of the reason the Third Reich has burned itself into our psyche so much is becuase of the hatred at the centre of its ideology, which led it to start a destructive war of conquest that led Europe into moral, physical and cultural ruin. The lessons of the Third Reich exert a universal appeal, the consequences of its murderous racism stands as a warning to the whole of humanity.


This is sort of what I was getting at. Speaking of the hate, there's also the fact that it was so utterly venomous, without even the pretense of logical reason most of the time. Some of the laws restricting the rights of the Jews later in the 1930s, such as banning them from having pets and imposing ridiculously inconvenient curfews, seem to have no reason other than pure spite to me.
Reply 63
Original post by Habsburg
This is sort of what I was getting at. Speaking of the hate, there's also the fact that it was so utterly venomous, without even the pretense of logical reason most of the time. Some of the laws restricting the rights of the Jews later in the 1930s, such as banning them from having pets and imposing ridiculously inconvenient curfews, seem to have no reason other than pure spite to me.


The only reason I could think of is to make them leave, but many jews simply hoped it would get better.

I have to say, of course it is hard to leave your home country, but in a situation like this, I wouldn't have waited for the end of the 30s. Basically anything's better than living with a constant threat to your life.
Reply 64
Original post by Habsburg
This is sort of what I was getting at. Speaking of the hate, there's also the fact that it was so utterly venomous, without even the pretense of logical reason most of the time. Some of the laws restricting the rights of the Jews later in the 1930s, such as banning them from having pets and imposing ridiculously inconvenient curfews, seem to have no reason other than pure spite to me.


Very true. There's also the fact that, during the war, Hitler was even willing to compromise his own war aims to carry out the Holocaust. I mean, even from a purely amoral tactical point of view, there was literally no point to it at all, indeed it even severely compromised Germany's wartime performance. That's how utterly venomous the Nazi's hatred was, and shows just how deep and fundemental it was to their insane beliefs.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 65
It's odd how history seems to emphasize some major events over others, there are many parrallels to the holocaust namely genocide but they don't spring to mind because of bias of whoever is in charge of the historical programmes controller on tv, films too.


There isn't much on british TV about slavery? Is it even in the history syllabus?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Tim2341
It's odd how history seems to emphasize some major events over others, there are many parrallels to the holocaust namely genocide but they don't spring to mind because of bias of whoever is in charge of the historical programmes controller on tv, films too.


There isn't much on british TV about slavery? Is it even in the history syllabus?


This I agree with pi think it has to do with time.

So many people say that people need to get over Trans-Atlantic slavery and move on.

But, have a different view on Holocausts.

I think it has to with personal feeling and culture, slavery will always be an issue for black people whether they are descended from slaves or not. With the issue of reparations and an official statement of apology.

Similar with holocaust it is more important for the Europeans.
Original post by Tim2341
It's odd how history seems to emphasize some major events over others, there are many parrallels to the holocaust namely genocide but they don't spring to mind because of bias of whoever is in charge of the historical programmes controller on tv, films too.


There isn't much on british TV about slavery? Is it even in the history syllabus?


The slave trade is in the KS3 syllabus, meaning that all students study it. At least it was when I did it 4 years ago.
Reply 68
Original post by Fezzick123
The slave trade is in the KS3 syllabus, meaning that all students study it. At least it was when I did it 4 years ago.


Don't think I ever studied slavery throughout my whole school career (I've just finished Year 13).

The main point that the poster was implying is that nations (such as our own, the inventor of the concentration camp) are more readily accepting of the skeletons in other peoples closets than the ones in our own. Thus, we don't have any remembrence days for the Boers, the Africans, the Native Americans, the Greater India region etc
I'm guessing that the posts of the Holocaust denier were removed? Or is my computer just being funny...
Reply 70
Original post by Fezzick123
I'm guessing that the posts of the Holocaust denier were removed? Or is my computer just being funny...


Yeah they were, my post (which quoted him) was also edited.
Original post by Clessus
Yeah they were, my post (which quoted him) was also edited.


Props to whoever did that :smile: That guy was unbearable!
Reply 72
Due to its proximity and links to both World War I and World War II (which will be remembered probably for centuries, due to how deadly they were, and how much of the world war affected/involved), I think it will be remembered for much longer than it would be had it been an isolated event.
Reply 73
Original post by bugsuper
I think, unfortunately, yes it will.

I'm not having a go at anybody's historical heritage here, but it's well-documented that the Mongol conquests under Genghis Khan killed a similar number of people to the Holocaust (and, at a time when the world population was smaller, although that doesn't really detract from the horror of either event.) But nowadays, people are starting to write histories about how Genghis was a great liberator - revisionist history talking about the benefits of his rule. So, by that metric, it will only be a few centuries before people start trying to get a more "balanced" view of Hitler, as mad as that sounds to us today.

If we humans had longer memories then there would not be the vast array of atrocities we see documented throughout history, and the patterns and cycles that seem so apparent in hindsight would not carry on occuring. But we don't, so they do.


Unless the Jewish religion becomes extinct and the graves in Israel dedicated to holocaust victims and those that helped Jews are destroyed

It will never be forgotten

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Reply 74
I doubt it will be forgotten.
Reply 75
No I really don't think the holocaust will ever be forgotten. It was a terrible event in modern history that is the probably the most talked and taught about... However there have also been equally as atrocious events e.g. 1990s genocide of Bosnian Muslims by Serb nationalist forces in Bosnia of which remains from mass graves are still dug up till this day....yet it's rarely taught along with Armenian genocide/Rwanda/cambodia/...and no doubt Syria will be added to this list in the near future with the way things are going.
Many people in the east already don't know what the holocaust is.
I don't think it will ever be forgotten. There's enough footage, records from the period as well as memorials and museums. It might become less emphasized when there are no living survivors and it becomes more distant history but I think something like that will always be known about and remembered.
Reply 78
I think the issue is with 'holocaust fundamentalism' being forgotten and replaced with full and rational debate on the issue.

Holocaust is not even the biggest genocide of the 20th century -- that title goes to Mao and Stalin. But still we can discuss these events in rational tones so why not the holocaust?

people must understand holocaust propaganda is about zionist politically agendas. Muslims understand this very well unlike the more naive Christians.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by thebiggy
I think the issue is with 'holocaust fundamentalism' being forgotten and replaced with full and rational debate on the issue.

Holocaust is not even the biggest genocide of the 20th century -- that title goes to Mao and Stalin. But still we can discuss these events in rational tones so why not the holocaust?

people must understand holocaust propaganda is about zionist politically agendas. Muslims understand this very well unlike the more naive Christians.


From my understanding most people under Mao and Stalin while higher in number; most (not all some where subject to horrendous attrocities on the basis of their decisions) died as a result of economic policy (famine etc caused by a movement from agriculture to a more industrial society), the reason why the Holocaust is cited as the most attrocitous is because it was a direct attempt at ethnic cleansing; the people subject to these camps didn't die indirectly on the basis of economic decisions; they were rounded up and systematically killed for no reason other than that they were considered inferior; not only that but the way they lived their lives (if it can be called a life) in the camp was attrocious.

As for the Holocaust being forgotten it will only be forgotten if evidence for its existence is lost, much the same with any piece of history really, a disturbing thought but it could become less cited if something more attrocious happens - but forgotten no.
(edited 10 years ago)

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