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Why do I have to learn all these tricks for 'factoring' 3x3 matrices determinants?

In a 3x3 matrix can't I just expand it out and then factorise it ? It is much faster and I'm less likely to make stupid mistakes.
Reply 1
Could you give an explicit example?
[br][br]sinxIcosxI1[br]sin2xcos2x1[br]sin3xcos3x1[br][br][br]sinx I cosx I 1[br]sin^2x | cos^2x |1[br]sin^3x | cos^3x |1[br]
no modulus just trying to make the matrices lines clearer
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 3
Original post by Scarlet Sword
[br][br]sinxIcosxI1[br]sin2xcos2x1[br]sin3xcos3x1[br][br][br]sinx I cosx I 1[br]sin^2x | cos^2x |1[br]sin^3x | cos^3x |1[br]
no modulus just trying to make the matrices lines clearer


And what exactly seems to be the problem?

Have you found the determinant of that matrix?
just expanded it and factored it into
[br]sinxcosx(1sinx)(1cosx)(cosxsinx)[br][br]sinxcosx(1-sinx)(1-cosx)(cosx-sinx)[br]

if I tried to carefully notice and think throguh all these tricks to factor it it would have taken me like 45 minutes rofl, expanding it only takes like 10
Original post by razzor
And what exactly seems to be the problem?

Have you found the determinant of that matrix?


yeah lol just expanded it and factored the expression. my teacher expects me to do all these things like "take out the sinxcosx factor first" which is simple enough.

But then you get stuff like "notice that if sinx=cosx then the matrix = 0 so (cosx-sinx) is a factor and hence subtract rows to make one of the rows have cosx-sinx as a factor and then divide it to take the factor out then notice that if cosx=1 then there are identical rows/columns so 'inspect that 1-cosx' is a factor and then find the appropriate combination of rows to add and subtract and stuff which is really annoying
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by Scarlet Sword
just expanded it and factored it into
[br]sinxcosx(1sinx)(1cosx)(cosxsinx)[br][br]sinxcosx(1-sinx)(1-cosx)(cosx-sinx)[br]

if I tried to carefully notice and think throguh all these tricks to factor it it would have taken me like 45 minutes rofl, expanding it only takes like 10


Expanding down the third column would be much easier. By doing this, you are only multiplying each minor (the 2x2 matrices) by 1.
Original post by razzor
Expanding down the third column would be much easier. By doing this, you are only multiplying each minor (the 2x2 matrices) by 1.


yeah I did that. I just expanded the matrice and factored it which was what i thought would be the logical way to do it, but apparently I wasn't supposed to do it like that
Reply 8
Original post by Scarlet Sword
yeah I did that. I just expanded the matrice and factored it which was what i thought would be the logical way to do it, but apparently I wasn't supposed to do it like that


I would just leave it without factorising anything. Either way, it's still correct. Factorising just tidies it up a bit.
Original post by razzor
I would just leave it without factorising anything. Either way, it's still correct. Factorising just tidies it up a bit.


The question explicitly asked me to factorize it, not expand it
Reply 10
Original post by Scarlet Sword
The question explicitly asked me to factorize it, not expand it


If the question explicitly asks you to factorise it, then you have no other choice but spot all these tricks.

To answer such questions, I would make the computation of the determinant as simple as possible. For example, performing row operations to obtain 1, 0, 0 in the third column. That way, you can ignore the second and third terms.
Then just find the determinant in the same way, bringing out common factors that you notice in each of the rows.
Original post by razzor
If the question explicitly asks you to factorise it, then you have no other choice but spot all these tricks.

To answer such questions, I would make the computation of the determinant as simple as possible. For example, performing row operations to obtain 1, 0, 0 in the third column. That way, you can ignore the second and third terms.
Then just find the determinant in the same way, bringing out common factors that you notice in each of the rows.


Why do I have no choice xD? Why can't I just expand the matrix and then factorize it; would I not get marks for doing that?
Reply 12
Original post by Scarlet Sword
Why do I have no choice xD? Why can't I just expand the matrix and then factorize it; would I not get marks for doing that?


You would not lose marks if you manage to factorise it correctly, but when I expand it out, it is hard to see how to factorise it fully.
The best way is to just perform row operations, bringing out common factors etc and see what happens :smile:
Original post by Scarlet Sword
In a 3x3 matrix can't I just expand it out and then factorise it ? It is much faster and I'm less likely to make stupid mistakes.


Which specification are you taking?

I think this is one example of a trick that gets introduced so that questions can be set on it without any real underlying value. The idea is that you get used to row operations on a matrix and so can see conditions for the determinant to be zero and hence deduce factors. But the process for making sure you have all factors and especially any constant strikes me as a bit flaky.
Reply 14
Original post by Scarlet Sword
[br][br]sinxIcosxI1[br]sin2xcos2x1[br]sin3xcos3x1[br][br][br]sinx I cosx I 1[br]sin^2x | cos^2x |1[br]sin^3x | cos^3x |1[br]
no modulus just trying to make the matrices lines clearer


For future reference, to write a matrix in LaTeX\LaTeX for it to be more readable, the syntax is like what I've used below:

Unparseable latex formula:

\left( \begin{array}{ccc} [br]\sin x & \cos x & 1 \\[br]\sin^2 x & \cos^2 x & 1 \\[br]\sin^3 x & cos^3 x & 1 \\ [br]\end{array} \right)[br]



It's an array, so \begin{array} to start, the {ccc} as a second argument on the array means that the three columns have their elements centred: {lll} would be left align, {rrr} for right align (using the correct number of letters for the dimension of the matrix). You write each row out, using & to separate columns and \\ to end a row. Then just use \end{array} at the end, with /left( and /right) for the parentheses (you can also use brackets, pipes, braces, etc. depending on what you're writing).

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